Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas 4K UHD (Criterion Collection)

[Infallible Presence]

I ordered about a week ago the Arrow release (along with "Carrie") from DiabolikDVD. Still hasn't shipped or they never sent the email. But, will hold on to my Criterion Blu-ray for the extras. That's the proper way to upgrade to 4K. The only real bummer with the Arrow UHD is the lack of the bonus BD that their limited edition blu-ray had ("For No Good Reason"), but that can be purchased separately elsewhere.

[KubrickKurasawa]

I want Cheech and Chong in 4K not this pass. Or Nerds 2 in Paradise. Oger: What if c a t really spelled d o g?

[asacmurr]

These are all from a friend who gave me permission to share these. Obviously the TV photos aren't 100% representative of the disc, but it should be a decent way to note how different the discs are. The Rhino logo is restored at the end, and according to him this is a different transfer entirely, it's a bit piss washed, the grade is way darker than the Arrow's (the second set of photos in these comparisons), for the later hotel scenes the Criterion is teal while the Arrow is a deep blue (likely same with the other blue scenes), and the black and white footage is tinted sepia at the start (lmao).

Packaging photos
https://imgur.com/a/2QiNBXP

Comparison photos
https://imgur.com/a/arGqbLT

[MifuneFan]

Hopefully caps-a-holic adds the Criterion release too, so we can get some proper comparisons. It does seem likely that some revisionism is happening though, especially with the change from B&W to sepia. I suppose in some way, it does make owning both more appealing as you can now create an ultimate package with two distinct presentations, and all of the unique extras between the two releases. Or conversely, it may make it easier for some to go with one or the other depending on their preferences.

[PNguyen]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

Hopefully caps-a-holic adds the Criterion release too, so we can get some proper comparisons. It does seem likely that some revisionism is happening though, especially with the change from B&W to sepia. I suppose in some way, it does make owning both more appealing as you can now create an ultimate package with two distinct presentations, and all of the unique extras between the two releases. Or conversely, it may make it easier for some to go with one or the other depending on their preferences.

really not loving this era of revisionism where directors just change their work for no reason, it was already bad enough with James Cameron

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by PNguyen

really not loving this era of revisionism where directors just change their work for no reason, it was already bad enough with James Cameron

Eh, it's not a new phenom. Many directors can't resist having a tinker.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

Hopefully caps-a-holic adds the Criterion release too, so we can get some proper comparisons. It does seem likely that some revisionism is happening though, especially with the change from B&W to sepia. I suppose in some way, it does make owning both more appealing as you can now create an ultimate package with two distinct presentations, and all of the unique extras between the two releases. Or conversely, it may make it easier for some to go with one or the other depending on their preferences.

It's all revisionism. Just depends on what revisionism you prefer.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by asacmurr

These are all from a friend who gave me permission to share these. Obviously the TV photos aren't 100% representative of the disc, but it should be a decent way to note how different the discs are. The Rhino logo is restored at the end, and according to him this is a different transfer entirely, it's a bit piss washed, the grade is way darker than the Arrow's (the second set of photos in these comparisons), for the later hotel scenes the Criterion is teal while the Arrow is a deep blue (likely same with the other blue scenes), and the black and white footage is tinted sepia at the start (lmao).

Packaging photos
https://imgur.com/a/2QiNBXP

Comparison photos
https://imgur.com/a/arGqbLT

We were somewhere around Barstow when the teal began to take hold

[JohnCarpenterFan]

Interesting that Criterion mention using a 35mm print provided by Universal as a color reference. Could very well be the case that it is more faithful to the original look of the film than all previous editions, but who knows? I just find it interesting that Criterion decided to go this route when there was already an existing master out there.

[brian9229]

So reading the booklet notes, this was timed per a Universal 35mm print, hmm. Interesting. Assuming that's true, it's weird. How could an original print have so much teal?

[JohnCarpenterFan]

Originally Posted by brian9229

So reading the booklet notes, this was timed per a Universal 35mm print, hmm. Interesting. Assuming that's true, it's weird. How could an original print have so much teal?

The "teal" so far seems to just be in one scene. This film isn't a natural-looking film to begin with and there was no reason that there couldn't be teal or any other color in a print. Home video masters for many films over the years tended to neutralize such hues and improperly white-balance the image so what people describe as "natural" or "original" are usually not. Many films have been improperly timed for video and then those improperly timed masters are then used as a reference for future releases. I wish it were standard procedure to reference an answer print when doing a new master but it's sadly not and I find for myself that it's hard to go back to Blu-rays and even UHDs after seeing 35mm prints of the same films.

[Telemachus]

I've seen people here say prints are not an accurate representation of grades because they change over time lmao

So now they are the standard? This just seems strange all around, I wonder if Gilliam wanted to do this or this was all Criterion, I'm having a hard time trusting this over what Arrow already did.

Though Lost Highway looks so different from all previous versions on Criterion's UHD so maybe they know something that the director knows, I dunno. I do know Criterion's piss poor QC lately on discs and the fact they still do the good enough disc authoring/compression makes me less likely to spend money on them even if they put out a superior product every once in awhile.

Maybe Dr. West can formulate which is the best version

(don't @me Geoffry)

[asacmurr]

Originally Posted by Telemachus

I've seen people here say prints are not an accurate representation of grades because they change over time lmao

So now they are the standard? This just seems strange all around, I wonder if Gilliam wanted to do this or this was all Criterion, I'm having a hard time trusting this over what Arrow already did.

Though Lost Highway looks so different from all previous versions on Criterion's UHD so maybe they know something that the director knows, I dunno. I do know Criterion's piss poor QC lately on discs and the fact they still do the good enough disc authoring/compression makes me less likely to spend money on them even if they put out a superior product every once in awhile.

Maybe Dr. West can formulate which is the best version

(don't @me Geoffry)

Aren't there telltale signs of a print degrading, though? Pushing towards magenta etc? Not sure.

[Telemachus]

Woh hold the phone I just noticed in your pics they changed the B&W to sepia, wtf lol okay so this is just something a bit revisionist on purpose, passed like John Stockton

[asacmurr]

Originally Posted by Telemachus

Woh hold the phone I just noticed in your pics they changed the B&W to sepia, wtf lol okay so this is just something a bit revisionist on purpose, passed like John Stockton

Yeah haha - I don't see why it would be sepia on the prints and black and white on everything else. I wish these booklets would detail what was changed, if anything. Some directors have the gall to actually note what they've changed - there was an interview with Mann regarding the Heat 4K and he detailed a bit.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Telemachus

I've seen people here say prints are not an accurate representation of grades because they change over time lmao

So now they are the standard? This just seems strange all around, I wonder if Gilliam wanted to do this or this was all Criterion, I'm having a hard time trusting this over what Arrow already did.

Though Lost Highway looks so different from all previous versions on Criterion's UHD so maybe they know something that the director knows, I dunno. I do know Criterion's piss poor QC lately on discs and the fact they still do the good enough disc authoring/compression makes me less likely to spend money on them even if they put out a superior product every once in awhile.

Maybe Dr. West can formulate which is the best version

(don't @me Geoffry)

Not a problem. Even prints are unreliable narrators at the best of times.

[Telemachus]

Originally Posted by KubrickKurasawa

I want Cheech and Chong in 4K

I'm not sorry I took the moneyyyyyy

[JohnCarpenterFan]

A print isn't an ideal reference for how the film was supposed to look, in most cases the final answer print would be. In cases where it's not available/doesn't exist anymore then usually multiple prints are compared as opposed to just one. Keep in mind that this is in cases where there is a considerable effort made to remain faithful to the original look, for so many of those old telecines no references were made and we were at the whims of whoever was in the suite at the time.

As much as a single print may not tell the whole story, I'd much rather they reference that than nothing at all.

[Schism213]

Originally Posted by Infallible Presence

I ordered about a week ago the Arrow release (along with "Carrie") from DiabolikDVD. Still hasn't shipped or they never sent the email. But, will hold on to my Criterion Blu-ray for the extras. That's the proper way to upgrade to 4K. The only real bummer with the Arrow UHD is the lack of the bonus BD that their limited edition blu-ray had ("For No Good Reason"), but that can be purchased separately elsewhere.

The Diablokial Spring sale started last Monday and they said to allow at least a week to process orders during the sale.

[SpookyDollhouse]

Watched the Criterion this weekend had to laugh reading this thread, not a total teal job like suggested and I think the color grade looks best here after going back and forth w the Arrow. Bring on Brazil