Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas 4K UHD (Criterion Collection)

[brian9229]

[Geoff D]

Awww, where'd Mike go?

[Telemachus]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I am surprised that there's no site-wide pushback re: the teal.

I think it's more that most of us already owned the Arrow. I doubt I will see the Criterion for a long time stuff is too expensive now to side trade for me

[WhiskeyGnome]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I am surprised that there's no site-wide pushback re: the teal. Never thought I'd see the day (and that's not aimed at anyone in particular, just an observation).

Yeah not gonna lie that one scene was pushing teal pretty high, but altogether teal itself has not bothered me too much if it fits the scene. It's when somebody like JC takes a hammer to a film like T2--I thought his color revisionism mostly worked to negate the 80s red push on T1--and just clobbers it over the head to the point the desert scenes just don't even look normal anymore.

[WhiskeyGnome]

Originally Posted by bradnoyes

Impulsively bought this in the B&N sale even though I already have the Arrow. I was going to sell the Arrow along with a batch of discs I listed today, but I couldn't bring myself to do it. This would be the first time I've kept two versions of the same movie, but it might be worth it for this.

Was going to watch this tonight but my copy of Chinatown unexpectedly showed up today too. Who knows what I'll watch now. Probably Rambo III.

If I ever get around to the set, I will definitely have two versions of In the Mood for Love. Because that new transfer is insanely different to the point it might as well be an alternative cut.

[maverick22]

I bought the Arrow 4k 1 or 2 weeks before the Criterion was announced.

Kinda salty (sorry, I’m tired and can’t think of a better word) that the Criterion might actually look better (well, more accurate color grading?) than the Arrow. That doesn’t happen often does it?

[Telemachus]

I think too many times these days seperate UHD releases end up looking pretty much the same and people just peep compression stills or bitrates to death, I think it's good these look pretty different from one another in caps, maybe that's what Criterion was banking on, super fans can buy both, or someone can side grade. I'm still in the camp that different doesn't mean better and more time needs to pass on this to call it, I mean look at the Texas Chain Saw thread I still don't thnk it's clear which is the best UHD presentation. I'm sticking with the Arrow unless the day comes I hate watching it, but think it looks wonderful.

[WhiskeyGnome]

Originally Posted by Telemachus

I think too many times these days seperate UHD releases end up looking pretty much the same and people just peep compression stills or bitrates to death, I think it's good these look pretty different from one another in caps, maybe that's what Criterion was banking on, super fans can buy both, or someone can side grade. I'm still in the camp that different doesn't mean better and more time needs to pass on this to call it, I mean look at the Texas Chain Saw thread I still don't thnk it's clear which is the best UHD presentation. I'm sticking with the Arrow unless the day comes I hate watching it, but think it looks wonderful.

For Texas it depends on what slight hint of color you like more. Reddish hue, or a yellowish hue. I like the US steel a lot better, so that was my choice because I also prefer the slightly redder hue. It makes very little difference overall I think. The UK is a slightly better encode.

With films like Truman I don't think it's just pixel peeping. Those stills show an absolutely DNR'd image IMO, and no it doesn't look terrible in motion, but it does look a little off now and then.

As for this release, I mean this is as different as it gets really in transfers. I don't really enjoy the flat and reddish Criterion, but I will say before advent of digitally grading transfers, Gilliam was well known for having a little 80s red push in a lot of his films.

That being said I prefer the Criterion in a lot of shots. It gives the film a nice vibe, and the Arrow honestly leans TOO much into the red as one can see from the old Criterion stills.

As far as I am concerned one should track down the Italian versions with much healthier grain for those releases if they value the film. Paramount has shown again and again and again that they are using some kind of DNR/filtering process that might make it look modern and new, but the grain suffers and ends up looking a bit naf overall.

Also, this is definitely one of the more controversial grades out there, but as I said before a couple of these shots just look hideous on the Arrow, and I can deal with a little more teal because there is nothing in the film that really says you can't do that. It's a drug trip film, and overall I like the new look. Some will not.

[WhiskeyGnome]

Originally Posted by maverick22

I bought the Arrow 4k 1 or 2 weeks before the Criterion was announced.

Kinda salty (sorry, I’m tired and can’t think of a better word) that the Criterion might actually look better (well, more accurate color grading?) than the Arrow. That doesn’t happen often does it?

I enjoy the Criterion more, but that's a bit more knowledge than we actually have. Gilliam to my knowledge has had a slight red push in most of his films in the 80s and 90s. Without seeing some concrete, we simply don't know, and some liberties were no doubt taken with the Criterion. No sense in needing two of the same transfers anyway.

[spiltmilk]

Having owned the Criterion dvd, the Universal blu, Criterion blu, Arrow blu and now the Arrow 4k - I also lean towards the Criterion 4k based on the screenshots, even though it is unclear which is more faithful to the original grading. The HST commentary track is also one of the few must-own extras.

[Martoto]

Originally Posted by JohnCarpenterFan

...previous masters which may also have been inaccurate (as they often were)....

[SpookyDollhouse]

Originally Posted by spiltmilk

Having owned the Criterion dvd, the Universal blu, Criterion blu, Arrow blu and now the Arrow 4k - I also lean towards the Criterion 4k based on the screenshots, even though it is unclear which is more faithful to the original grading. The HST commentary track is also one of the few must-own extras.

I A/B'd them both again a week or so ago after learning about the reason for the black/white>sepia and it's really not even worth conversing with some members in this thread who still haven't bothered with the UHD months later (the teal claim is f'n ) but want to cope about it for some reason.

[KcMsterpce]

I have the Arrow and the Criterion 4k's but haven't looked at them. Kinda curious about it.
I would also want to throw in the Criterion blu, just for curiosity's sake.
So, it would turn into a project, and I'm lazy. Thus, haven't done it.

[ZeeCobra]

Oh, man... one of my favourite films has an out-of-nowhere, possibly more accurate colour grade. I thought the Arrow 4K was exceptional, but I am extremely curious to check out what the visual changes are with this new Criterion in-person (cause screencaps can only take you so far). I've kind of been slowly getting off the Criterion bandwagon for a bit now - their weak compression for UHD one of the biggest factors - so it's quite a shock to see such an interestingly different grade for this one. Won't hate on the teal perception too much as I'm sure in actual HDR it won't be anywhere near as prominent. Even so, I mean hey, I thought StudioCanal's Basic Instinct 4K looked pretty dang good, so what the heck do I know...

I have read that American Cinematographer article talking about all the specific colour choices before, though aside from its use in an academic essay I was writing on the film, I didn't really pay attention to whether their deployment within the film itself was visible (I was more focussed on the lens' choices and general visual design). Either way, still very happy to tripledip on a masterpiece (got the Arrow BD, then the 4K and now this one at some point).

[WhiskeyGnome]

Originally Posted by KcMsterpce

I have the Arrow and the Criterion 4k's but haven't looked at them. Kinda curious about it.
I would also want to throw in the Criterion blu, just for curiosity's sake.
So, it would turn into a project, and I'm lazy. Thus, haven't done it.

Criterion's old blu is very similar to Arrow, but for whatever reason Arrow put even more red into it. It looks really flat at times almost lifeless or boring IMO. Keeping my old blu, but this modern color timing is stunning for this particular film. Criterion did a great job.

[Muyfa666]

Urgh, I didn't even know CC had a 4K of this out, so I got the Arrow upon release.

The caps is pretty much 50/50 for me - some looks better on Arrow and some on CC.

Are there any consensus at all on which version to go for, or just pick your poison?

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by Muyfa666

Urgh, I didn't even know CC had a 4K of this out, so I got the Arrow upon release.

The caps is pretty much 50/50 for me - some looks better on Arrow and some on CC.

Are there any consensus at all on which version to go for, or just pick your poison?

To be fair Arrow released theirs a year before Criterion so you couldn't have known .. I don't think you'll find a definitive answer as to which is the better one. It's purely subjective. I've said a few times now that owning both would be the ultimate package to get two different gradings of the film and all of the unique extras between the two, but I don't think most need to do that. If you're happy with the Arrow release then I'd say you're good.

[Alpy]

I agree with your statements, I own both, although perhaps (so far it's the only case) I tend to prefer Criterion.

[barrett75]

Originally Posted by Alpy

I agree with your statements, I own both, although perhaps (so far it's the only case) I tend to prefer Criterion.

yep i concur. i own both too and must say i prefer Criterion release.

[Sopranogl]

I prefer the color timing on the Arrow release. The most obvious example of "teal push" is the scene when the district attorneys meet in the large conference room for the presentation. On the Arrow release...the scene is BLUE. On the Criterion release...the scene is BLUEISH-GREEN. The scene looks odd -- very odd -- with all of that green.... Still, I like the Criterion release; I just don't think that the color timing is accurate.