Payback (Theatrical+Director's Cut) Germany/UK/Spain - Page 3 - Blu-ray Forum

aiman04 · 09-24-2009, 08:19 AM

Good find Damage Inc, finally I can buy this movie. I've never seen either versions so I'm not sure which one I'll prefer. Both versions seems so different as explained by Aramis109. With different visual tones, I don't think they're seamlessly branched, each will have it's own full movie.

Damage Inc. · 09-24-2009, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aiman04

Good find Damage Inc, finally I can buy this movie. I've never seen either versions so I'm not sure which one I'll prefer. Both versions seems so different as explained by Aramis109. With different visual tones, I don't think they're seamlessly branched, each will have it's own full movie.

Oh yeah, I'm pretty sure now thinking about the color-differences.
Would be so weird having contents from both films mixed. XD
There are two 50GB-discs in it too, so there's no doubt now.

I really hope there will be a nice review on how this one is, especially compared to the US-version.
But usually there won't be this official Blu-ray.com-review for any other than the US-releases.
So if not, maybe someone here, like you aiman04, could do one and post it on the release-page.
Or of course just discuss differences here.
They should really create a UK-review-team or something... :P

Edit:
Bah, someone changed the thread-title to aout one BD-title only... -_-
But that's OK. Could you also connect it to the release-page(s), you know, the 'Forum'-button?
If that's appropriate. Because I noticed those lead nowhere for the newer ones at least.

Lenny Nero · 09-26-2009, 10:09 PM

God, it's NOT this damaged goods Damage Inc guy's find, and the matter of seamless branching was discussed earlier in this same topic as well. Was I away for too long, or is this forum being overrun by inconsiderate individuals with attention deficit disorder and the minds of simple 12-year olds?!

AKORIS · 09-26-2009, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emilio1316

The only version available in the US is the Directors Cut version known as the Straight Up edition.

Payback is an interesting film as the final cut was taken away from the director by Mel Gibson and the studio. The theatrical cut was basically Gibson's version.

So this directors cut is a rather unique situation as the Director went back to the film years later and changed the tone and story of the film rather significantly. The color timing is completely different (no more blu hue over the film), its a lot less humorous, and the entire third act is different. It completely omits the heavy played by Kris Kristofferson in the theatrical version.

Unfortunately the original theatrical version is not available on Blu-ray yet in the US, its the version that was a hit in theaters, and is unquestionably more "crowd-pleasing" with more humor and a more of a "happy" ending. I must say it was very big of Gibson and the studio to let director Brian Helgeland go back and finish up his original vision. I found the Straight Up Directors Cut version an interesting experiment, but I prefer the theatrical cut no question.

****completely agree-- I don't regret having the directors cut on blu but
I would buy it again to have the theatrical version that I like best

Mr.White · 09-26-2009, 11:32 PM

The director's cut is way better so I'll stck with my Paramount blu!

ShelbyGT500 · 09-26-2009, 11:41 PM

I have never bought an import before, but I may have to with this one. As much as I like the DC I really like the theatrical version. I am wondering though will it be region free so, I can play it on my PS3 60gig?

GGX · 09-27-2009, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShelbyGT500

I have never bought an import before, but I may have to with this one. As much as I like the DC I really like the theatrical version. I am wondering though will it be region free so, I can play it on my PS3 60gig?

Warner releases are always region free.

Mobe1969 · 09-27-2009, 03:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShelbyGT500

I have never bought an import before, but I may have to with this one. As much as I like the DC I really like the theatrical version. I am wondering though will it be region free so, I can play it on my PS3 60gig?

I'll let you know when I get my copy.

McCrutchy · 09-27-2009, 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GGX

Warner releases are always region free.

Yeah, but WB usually do worldwide launches, or at least own the rights in all major countries. In this case, Paramount may force them to lock Payback, though that's unlikely given that Paramount themselves are a mostly region-free BD studio.

I'm still waiting to find if the UK disc is uncut or not.

EDIT: Those on AVS Forum have seemingly confirmed that this is NOT a 2-disc release, but two separate encodes on one BD-50 disc, which is upsetting, given that WB would have squeezed two 1080p video transfers, AND TWO 5.1 Dolby TrueHD tracks (along with the SD DUBs and extras) onto a single disc.

Kuros · 09-27-2009, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McCrutchy

Yeah, but WB usually do worldwide launches, or at least own the rights in all major countries. In this case, Paramount may force them to lock Payback, though that's unlikely given that Paramount themselves are a mostly region-free BD studio.

I'm still waiting to find if the UK disc is uncut or not.

EDIT: Those on AVS Forum have seemingly confirmed that this is NOT a 2-disc release, but two separate encodes on one BD-50 disc, which is upsetting, given that WB would have squeezed two 1080p video transfers, AND TWO 5.1 Dolby TrueHD tracks (along with the SD DUBs and extras) onto a single disc.

I haven't read any reviews for the Paramount version to check the picture quality but you might be interested to know that the US version from Paramount apparenty fits the director's cut of the film and all the extras onto a single BD-25. Moreover the film and extras on the Paramount version are compressed using MPEG-2.

The feature on the Paramount version is only around 16GB in size and the extras are less than 5GB (all encoded in MPEG-2 remember).

Even with two TrueHD tracks (which will almost certainly be 16bit as it's Warners we're talking about) it should be perfectly possible to fit everything onto a BD-50 using VC-1 without the picture quality suffering too much if at all.

The running time for both cuts combined is around 190 minutes. I'm sure there have been longer films that have been put on a BD-50 that haven't been riddled with compression artefacts?

What I'm more concerned about tbh is whether the UK version will be uncut like the Dutch version apparently is and whether or not we do actually get all the extras from the Paramount version.

Are there any reviews of the Warner version yet?

Kuros · 09-27-2009, 01:42 PM

OK boys and girls!

The amazing Jojos on the AVSForum has confirmed that the UK version and Dutch version are one and the same and that it is uncut, that both cuts of the film have Dolby TrueHD English and not just crappy Dolby Digital like the Paramount release (which is missing the Theatrical Cut anyway!) and that ALL the extras from the Paramount version are included along with some cast interview clips NOT on the Paramount version!

So boys and girls! THIS European release from Warners is the version to get at present!

Well done Warners!

Damage Inc. · 09-27-2009, 02:11 PM

Strange to hear there aren't 2 discs but 2 films on 1.
However, good to hear that it's complete with the 2 films and extras and then some.

And I'm sure, as said, the films won't be too compressed that they won't look good.
As explained by Kuros, it should be possible to get them on a single 50GB disc.
I'm not sure how many extras there are though?

By the way, they míght compress the two films more being on one disc.
But wouldn't they make up for it using better quality VC-1?
I know it might be larger then of course and would have to be compressed more yet again.
But wouldn't it be a better compressor period?

McCrutchy · 09-27-2009, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuros

The feature on the Paramount version is only around 16GB in size and the extras are less than 5GB (all encoded in MPEG-2 remember).

Even with two TrueHD tracks (which will almost certainly be 16bit as it's Warners we're talking about) it should be perfectly possible to fit everything onto a BD-50 using VC-1 without the picture quality suffering too much if at all.

The running time for both cuts combined is around 190 minutes. I'm sure there have been longer films that have been put on a BD-50 that haven't been riddled with compression artefacts?

I suppose you're right about this. Oh well, if Paramount ever releases a better disc I'll just but that, too.

jurassic_pork · 09-29-2009, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuros

OK boys and girls!

The amazing Jojos on the AVSForum has confirmed that the UK version and Dutch version are one and the same and that it is uncut, that both cuts of the film have Dolby TrueHD English and not just crappy Dolby Digital like the Paramount release (which is missing the Theatrical Cut anyway!) and that ALL the extras from the Paramount version are included along with some cast interview clips NOT on the Paramount version!

So boys and girls! THIS European release from Warners is the version to get at present!

Well done Warners!

So did they confirm region free? Any concerns with editing some of the content in the UK?

GGX · 09-30-2009, 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jurassic_pork

So did they confirm region free? Any concerns with editing some of the content in the UK?

Warner.Does.NOT.Region.Lock

McCrutchy · 09-30-2009, 03:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jurassic_pork

So did they confirm region free? Any concerns with editing some of the content in the UK?

Confirmed region-free AND uncut by those on AVS Forum.

jurassic_pork · 09-30-2009, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McCrutchy

Confirmed region-free AND uncut by those on AVS Forum.

Sweet...just needed to confirm before importing...might get the T3 UK version as well with HD audio....

Eeeper · 10-08-2009, 02:31 PM

Hey all. Just wanted to chime in and say that I got the UK blu ray the other day from AMZ UK and had a chance to go through some of the contents. I feel confident enough to talk about it now. Please note, I'm not a Hi-Def video or audiophile per se so take what I say with a pinch of salt until you hear from better versed people, OK?

The directors cut seems to be a remarkably well sourced transfer. I compared the openings of both version to check transfer issues and they seem to hold up together. One thing that I would say is that the DC has no bleach bypass done on it and has a higher contrast to it but going through the special features turns out director Brian Helgeland wanted it done that way. So no blue tint, darkened colour palette and no washed look. The audio is good but if you're going into this hoping for bang, zoom and wallop, then I'm sorry. Payback isn't that kind of film. No real pushing all 5.1 channels as action is sparse in this film and dialogue is king here. The good news is that both versions of the film have great, clear dialogue even when things like the car over-revving in the alleyway in the part of the film depicting the original heist. You can still hear Greg Henry's "Hubba-hubba-hubba!" over the roar.

The theatrical version also looks good with the opening still sharp. Audio-wise the only heads up I'll state is that the music soundtrack is also different to the 2007 cut. Things like James Brown's This is a Man's World don't occur in the DC so it's nice to hear them clear as day. As the 2007 cut's music soundtrack is subdued, the 1999 cut gives a chance to listen to how Warner's handled it. Again, spot checking, they seem to have done the TC justice. Helgeland (and the film's editor) states that the original AVID files for the directors version were thrown out in the intervening years so the only version was the prints (they state specifically what type of print) of the film that they had in storage. As Paramount worked on the 2007 cut only for their blu ray/DVD release so that seems to indicate that Warner worked on the 1999 cut on their own as Paramount haven't said diddly about the 99 cut.

So in summary, I'd say that Warner have respected both groups of fans with a decent transfer and good audio.

Finally the commentary (which I still haven't listened to) by Brian Helgeland on on the directors cut only.

Well hope this helps some people make their minds up either way.

Laters.

(And, if you're wondering, I still like the original but the DC is like taking a witness statement from another person at the scene. Both people saw the same thing, it just happened differently for both of them. Kudos to Mel, Icon and the rest for giving Helgeland his film back.)

Hugh K. David · 10-08-2009, 03:32 PM

Nice write-up Eeeper, thanks.

J.Cornelius · 10-08-2009, 04:17 PM

Just picked this up from Amazon.UK. I loved the first two acts of the director's cut but found the third act to be quite lacking. Theatrical cut for me, I find the narration by Gibson to be really cool, and found the third act more satisfying. Funny though how narration can work in one movie and not in another, best example is Blade Runner. What ever version has the narration just annoys me.

09-27-2009, 01:42 PM	#51
Kuros Senior Member Top contributor Member since:Nov 2008 Trading Score:45	OK boys and girls! The amazing Jojos on the AVSForum has confirmed that the UK version and Dutch version are one and the same and that it is uncut, that both cuts of the film have Dolby TrueHD English and not just crappy Dolby Digital like the Paramount release (which is missing the Theatrical Cut anyway!) and that ALL the extras from the Paramount version are included along with some cast interview clips NOT on the Paramount version! So boys and girls! THIS European release from Warners is the version to get at present! Well done Warners! Last edited by Kuros; 09-27-2009 at 01:44 PM.

10-08-2009, 02:31 PM	#58
Eeeper Senior Member Top contributor Member since:Dec 2008 Location:Dublin, Ireland 4K collection:81 Blu-ray collection:648 Trading Score:1	Got my disc the other day Hey all. Just wanted to chime in and say that I got the UK blu ray the other day from AMZ UK and had a chance to go through some of the contents. I feel confident enough to talk about it now. Please note, I'm not a Hi-Def video or audiophile per se so take what I say with a pinch of salt until you hear from better versed people, OK? The directors cut seems to be a remarkably well sourced transfer. I compared the openings of both version to check transfer issues and they seem to hold up together. One thing that I would say is that the DC has no bleach bypass done on it and has a higher contrast to it but going through the special features turns out director Brian Helgeland wanted it done that way. So no blue tint, darkened colour palette and no washed look. The audio is good but if you're going into this hoping for bang, zoom and wallop, then I'm sorry. Payback isn't that kind of film. No real pushing all 5.1 channels as action is sparse in this film and dialogue is king here. The good news is that both versions of the film have great, clear dialogue even when things like the car over-revving in the alleyway in the part of the film depicting the original heist. You can still hear Greg Henry's "Hubba-hubba-hubba!" over the roar. The theatrical version also looks good with the opening still sharp. Audio-wise the only heads up I'll state is that the music soundtrack is also different to the 2007 cut. Things like James Brown's This is a Man's World don't occur in the DC so it's nice to hear them clear as day. As the 2007 cut's music soundtrack is subdued, the 1999 cut gives a chance to listen to how Warner's handled it. Again, spot checking, they seem to have done the TC justice. Helgeland (and the film's editor) states that the original AVID files for the directors version were thrown out in the intervening years so the only version was the prints (they state specifically what type of print) of the film that they had in storage. As Paramount worked on the 2007 cut only for their blu ray/DVD release so that seems to indicate that Warner worked on the 1999 cut on their own as Paramount haven't said diddly about the 99 cut. So in summary, I'd say that Warner have respected both groups of fans with a decent transfer and good audio. Finally the commentary (which I still haven't listened to) by Brian Helgeland on on the directors cut only. Well hope this helps some people make their minds up either way. Laters. (And, if you're wondering, I still like the original but the DC is like taking a witness statement from another person at the scene. Both people saw the same thing, it just happened differently for both of them. Kudos to Mel, Icon and the rest for giving Helgeland his film back.) Last edited by Eeeper; 10-09-2009 at 11:40 AM. Reason: grammer errors

Similar Threads
thread	Forum	Thread Starter	Replies	Last Post
Kingdom of Heaven--theatrical or director's cut?	Movies	repete66211	74	06-12-2025 01:11 AM
Payback(Theatrical+Directors cut)	United Kingdom and Ireland	river123	39	03-20-2025 06:14 PM
Upcoming Donnie Darko: Theatrical Cut vs. Director's Cut	Blu-ray Movies - North America	Penitus	22	02-20-2012 07:39 PM
Mr. & Mrs. Smith Director's Cut BD In Germany?	Blu-ray Movies - North America	Sky_Captain	0	02-02-2008 01:55 PM
CE3K theatrical or director's cut?	Blu-ray Movies - North America	turboLAZER	5	11-11-2007 12:40 AM

09-24-2009, 08:19 AM	#41
aiman04 Blu-ray Champion Member since:Nov 2007 Location:Malaysia Home Theater Gallery:9	Good find Damage Inc, finally I can buy this movie. I've never seen either versions so I'm not sure which one I'll prefer. Both versions seems so different as explained by Aramis109. With different visual tones, I don't think they're seamlessly branched, each will have it's own full movie.

09-26-2009, 10:09 PM	#43
Lenny Nero Active Member Member since:Jun 2008 Location:Puerto Rico 4K collection:2 Blu-ray collection:5 DVD collection:1 Digital collection:5	God, it's NOT this damaged goods Damage Inc guy's find, and the matter of seamless branching was discussed earlier in this same topic as well. Was I away for too long, or is this forum being overrun by inconsiderate individuals with attention deficit disorder and the minds of simple 12-year olds?!

09-26-2009, 11:32 PM	#45
Mr.White Banned Member since:Jan 2009 Blu-ray collection:502 Blu-ray reviews:29	The director's cut is way better so I'll stck with my Paramount blu!

09-26-2009, 11:41 PM	#46
ShelbyGT500 Senior Member Member since:Jul 2008 Location:Bellevue, WA Home Theater Gallery:7 Blu-ray collection:75 Blu-ray reviews:7	I have never bought an import before, but I may have to with this one. As much as I like the DC I really like the theatrical version. I am wondering though will it be region free so, I can play it on my PS3 60gig?

09-27-2009, 02:11 PM	#52
Damage Inc. Blu-ray Guru Top contributor Member since:Jan 2009 Location:The Netherlands 4K collection:3 Blu-ray collection:384 DVD collection:5	Strange to hear there aren't 2 discs but 2 films on 1. However, good to hear that it's complete with the 2 films and extras and then some. And I'm sure, as said, the films won't be too compressed that they won't look good. As explained by Kuros, it should be possible to get them on a single 50GB disc. I'm not sure how many extras there are though? By the way, they míght compress the two films more being on one disc. But wouldn't they make up for it using better quality VC-1? I know it might be larger then of course and would have to be compressed more yet again. But wouldn't it be a better compressor period?

10-08-2009, 03:32 PM	#59
Hugh K. David Palisades Tartan Member since:Nov 2008 Location:Buckinghamshire, U.K.	Nice write-up Eeeper, thanks.

10-08-2009, 04:17 PM	#60
J.Cornelius Active Member Member since:Jun 2008	Just picked this up from Amazon.UK. I loved the first two acts of the director's cut but found the third act to be quite lacking. Theatrical cut for me, I find the narration by Gibson to be really cool, and found the third act more satisfying. Funny though how narration can work in one movie and not in another, best example is Blade Runner. What ever version has the narration just annoys me.

Best Blu-ray Movie Deals