Watching Blu-Ray with DD/DTS receiver

[embreeb]

I know that if I run an optical/coax audio cable from my BR player to my older DD/DTS receiver, I won't get HD audio. That's fine. My question is if the BR disc doesn't specify a DD/DTS soundtrack, will I hear anything at all? I will be saving up for a new receiver with HD audio capabilities. Cheers.

Brian

[Kryptonic]

Originally Posted by embreeb

I know that if I run an optical/coax audio cable from my BR player to my older DD/DTS receiver, I won't get HD audio. That's fine. My question is if the BR disc doesn't specify a DD/DTS soundtrack, will I hear anything at all? I will be saving up for a new receiver with HD audio capabilities. Cheers.

Brian

You will received the "core" audio tracks - Dolby Digital @ 640kbps and DTS @ 1.5mbps.

[Propellarhead9]

You will, I use an DVD HTIB for my audio at the moment. My Dolby plays fine but DTS doesn't sync for some reason

[embreeb]

I just found out my receiver has 5.1 inputs, so can't I just find a BR player with 5.1 PCM out, then run it to the receiver? Then I should have TrueHD/DTS HD, right?

[Elandyll]

Yes

[Rob J in WNY]

Originally Posted by embreeb

I just found out my receiver has 5.1 inputs, so can't I just find a BR player with 5.1 PCM out, then run it to the receiver? Then I should have TrueHD/DTS HD, right?

Welcome to the forums, embreeb.

Lossless/uncompressed PCM audio is worth reaching for, so to answer your question, yes, but with two footnotes.

1. Make sure your player can decode both Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio. If it's a newer player, then you are likely already good to go. What player do you have, incidentally?

2. Make sure that you choose the lossless/uncompressed option in the disc menu. You will not be prompted on your receiver that you are listening to Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD Master Audio, or uncompressed PCM. Most newer Blu-ray releases will default to the lossless track. I don't know of any which default to an uncompressed PCM option (someone correct me here if there is). Some do not default to lossless (The Dark Knight is a good example) and will settle on a lossy Dolby Digital track. Always good to double-check your sound options in the disc menu when you begin a movie.

After you become accustomed to the more natural, precise quality of lossless/uncompressed audio, you might come to a point when you can tell the difference should the lossy track gets accidentally selected.

[RBBrittain]

You say you have "5.1 inputs" on your AVR. What kind? It needs to be either HDMI with full audio (NOT "passthrough") or analog (more likely for older AVRs) to handle lossless audio. If it's 5.1 thru optical or coax, it's DD/DTS and it won't be lossless; LPCM over optical/coax is 2.0 tops.

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by Rob J in WNY

Welcome to the forums, embreeb.

Lossless/uncompressed PCM audio is worth reaching for, so to answer your question, yes, but with two footnotes.

1. Make sure your player can decode both Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio. If it's a newer player, then you are likely already good to go. What player do you have, incidentally?

2. Make sure that you choose the lossless/uncompressed option in the disc menu. You will not be prompted on your receiver that you are listening to Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD Master Audio, or uncompressed PCM. Most newer Blu-ray releases will default to the lossless track. I don't know of any which default to an uncompressed PCM option (someone correct me here if there is). Some do not default to lossless (The Dark Knight is a good example) and will settle on a lossy Dolby Digital track. Always good to double-check your sound options in the disc menu when you begin a movie.

After you become accustomed to the more natural, precise quality of lossless/uncompressed audio, you might come to a point when you can tell the difference should the lossy track gets accidentally selected.

I will add a third footnote. If you are using 5.1 analog cables to connect the BD player to the receiver, you must perform bass management in the player as most receivers do not perform bass management in analog domain. Also, you may have to manually boost your subwoofer by up to +10dB. An SPL meter may be useful.

[gnb2008]

assuming that the OP is going to use the 5.1 analog connection, what is the right setting for his BD audio? is it bitstream or PCM?

[embreeb]

I have both - digital coax/optical 5.1 and analog 5.1 input (separate channels).

Originally Posted by RBBrittain

You say you have "5.1 inputs" on your AVR. What kind? It needs to be either HDMI with full audio (NOT "passthrough") or analog (more likely for older AVRs) to handle lossless audio. If it's 5.1 thru optical or coax, it's DD/DTS and it won't be lossless; LPCM over optical/coax is 2.0 tops.

[embreeb]

Originally Posted by Rob J in WNY

Welcome to the forums, embreeb.

Lossless/uncompressed PCM audio is worth reaching for, so to answer your question, yes, but with two footnotes.

1. Make sure your player can decode both Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio. If it's a newer player, then you are likely already good to go. What player do you have, incidentally?

I don't have a BR player yet, but I am going to make sure to look for one with analog outs. Then later when I upgrade to a newer AVR w/HD audio decoding, I can use HDMI inputs on AVR.

2. Make sure that you choose the lossless/uncompressed option in the disc menu. You will not be prompted on your receiver that you are listening to Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD Master Audio, or uncompressed PCM. Most newer Blu-ray releases will default to the lossless track. I don't know of any which default to an uncompressed PCM option (someone correct me here if there is). Some do not default to lossless (The Dark Knight is a good example) and will settle on a lossy Dolby Digital track. Always good to double-check your sound options in the disc menu when you begin a movie.

After you become accustomed to the more natural, precise quality of lossless/uncompressed audio, you might come to a point when you can tell the difference should the lossy track gets accidentally selected.

Whenever I watch a DVD I ALWAYS check the audio settings to make sure I am selecting the DD/DTS soundtrack. I don't have a preference to either if both are available, but it seems like DTS is louder; but that may just be my perception.

[embreeb]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

I will add a third footnote. If you are using 5.1 analog cables to connect the BD player to the receiver, you must perform bass management in the player as most receivers do not perform bass management in analog domain. Also, you may have to manually boost your subwoofer by up to +10dB. An SPL meter may be useful.

I don't have a Sub, nor do I have a SPL meter. Where would the bass management be done - AVR or BD player? What do I do since I don't have a Sub?

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by embreeb

I don't have a Sub, nor do I have a SPL meter. Where would the bass management be done - AVR or BD player? What do I do since I don't have a Sub?

If you are using analog cables, you do the bass management in the player. If you are using Optical/Digital Coaxial or HDMI cable, you do bass management in the receiver. If you don't have a subwoofer, set the front speakers to LARGE and the subwoofer to NO.

[Tinman7783]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

If you are using analog cables, you do the bass management in the player. If you are using Optical/Digital Coaxial or HDMI cable, you do bass management in the receiver. If you don't have a subwoofer, set the front speakers to LARGE and the subwoofer to NO.

does hooking up both hdmi and opt cables help or no difference? My receiver only inputs LPCM and core codecs. On the player setting hdmi is to lpcm 7.1 and spdif is set to pcm 2 ch.

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by Tinman7783

does hooking up both hdmi and opt cables help or no difference? My receiver only inputs LPCM and core codecs. On the player setting hdmi is to lpcm 7.1 and spdif is set to pcm 2 ch.

If your receiver has HDMI, that is the cable you should use for HD audio. In most cases, setting your player to LPCM is preferred as bitstream may not give you secondary audio, etc.

Optical/Coaxial cables are good for older receivers that don't have HDMI input. You can only get the old DD and DTS with Optical/Coaxial. Both DD and DTS are encoded at higher bit rates on blu-ray disc and should give you better audio than DVD. Unless you have different older and newer equipment in your setup, there is no good reason to connect both HDMI and optical cables from a BD player to a receiver. I only use one HDMI cable for my BD player and it satisfies all my needs and there is less cable mess in the back of the receiver.

[Tinman7783]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

If your receiver has HDMI, that is the cable you should use for HD audio. In most cases, setting your player to LPCM is preferred as bitstream may not give you secondary audio, etc.

Optical/Coaxial cables are good for older receivers that don't have HDMI input. You can only get the old DD and DTS with Optical/Coaxial. Both DD and DTS are encoded at higher bit rates on blu-ray disc and should give you better audio than DVD. Unless you have different older and newer equipment in your setup, there is no good reason to connect both HDMI and optical cables from a BD player to a receiver. I only use one HDMI cable for my BD player and it satisfies all my needs and there is less cable mess in the back of the receiver.

Great...thanks. Is there a way to adjust the db on the surrounds during lpcm playback?

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by Tinman7783

Great...thanks. Is there a way to adjust the db on the surrounds during lpcm playback?

On most intermediate level to high end receivers, you can do that. I don't believe your Sony receiver has on screen display and manual speaker settings. However, it does come with a microphone and automatic calibration. Set up your speakers, set your BD player to LPCM and run the auto calibration program. Just to make sure, check the owner's manual to see if you change the speaker settings manually. Unfortunately, I am not very familiar with your particular receiver.

[rob_z11]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

I will add a third footnote. If you are using 5.1 analog cables to connect the BD player to the receiver, you must perform bass management in the player as most receivers do not perform bass management in analog domain. Also, you may have to manually boost your subwoofer by up to +10dB. An SPL meter may be useful.

This is a very good topic, but I have an older Denon 3801, and HTPC with Blueray drive, and I have mapped 7.1 jack from MY HTPC to a Denon Receiver.

When I play 7.1 DVD using Software based Blueray Player from Cyberlink, I can send audio to 8 channels by selecting appropriate external switch on Denon and selecting 8 speaker option in the Cyberlink Software. Somehow audio from the movie does not seems to be that loud and missing that impact that I would get from DTS 5.1 connected via optical from my HTPC to receiver.

Any suggestions one can think of?

I can send 7.1 signal to all of my speaker using my HTPC's RealTek Software settings for audio.

[EWL5]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

I will add a third footnote. If you are using 5.1 analog cables to connect the BD player to the receiver, you must perform bass management in the player as most receivers do not perform bass management in analog domain. Also, you may have to manually boost your subwoofer by up to +10dB. An SPL meter may be useful.

Originally Posted by rob_z11

This is a very good topic, but I have an older Denon 3801, and HTPC with Blueray drive, and I have mapped 7.1 jack from MY HTPC to a Denon Receiver.

When I play 7.1 DVD using Software based Blueray Player from Cyberlink, I can send audio to 8 channels by selecting appropriate external switch on Denon and selecting 8 speaker option in the Cyberlink Software. Somehow audio from the movie does not seems to be that loud and missing that impact that I would get from DTS 5.1 connected via optical from my HTPC to receiver.

Any suggestions one can think of?

I can send 7.1 signal to all of my speaker using my HTPC's RealTek Software settings for audio.

Bass management doesn't apply to embreeb's situation since he doesn't have a sub but it may be the culprit in rob_z11's situation on the HTPC.

rob_z11, when you are sending the minijack sound out from your soundcard, I guess the understanding is you are asking the software to decode before sending to your AVR. Since I doubt your Denon 3801 can apply bass management on the multichannel analog inputs, then the bass management is done in software. Is this correct?

If you have all speakers set to LARGE and you also have a subwoofer, then the signal for the SW must be boosted by 10dB on the Denon over the analog connection. If you have any speakers set to SMALL, then you are forcing redirected LFE, which will require an additional -5dB on the signal to the sub for a grand total of -15dB going to the sub. Some AVR's don't have any boost for the signal to the sub over analog and of those that do, they normally max out at 10dB. If your Denon can't do +10 or +15dB boost for the sub, then your best bet is to set all speakers to LARGE and increase the gain (volume dial) on the sub and lower the boost value for your digital connection in the AVR setup to compensate. The optical connection sounds better because the AVR correctly handles this +10 or +15 boost internally when you are bitstreaming over optical.

[embreeb]

Originally Posted by embreeb View Post
I know that if I run an optical/coax audio cable from my BR player to my older DD/DTS receiver, I won't get HD audio. That's fine. My question is if the BR disc doesn't specify a DD/DTS soundtrack, will I hear anything at all? I will be saving up for a new receiver with HD audio capabilities. Cheers.

Brian

Originally Posted by Kryptonic

You will received the "core" audio tracks - Dolby Digital @ 640kbps and DTS @ 1.5mbps.

So, what if the movie doesn't have a DD/DTS track -- will the player/AVR transcode the audio to DD/DTS, or what? Also, if there is no DD/DTS track on the disc, will the soundtrack sound OK?