Should I hold out for an LED LCD TV?

[amtctt]

Originally Posted by werewuf

I measured my 40" Kuro and it is 36" wide by 20.5"
My 2 46" TV screens are 40" x 22.5"

so are you saying your 40" is the same as 42"? cause the OP was talking about a 42". a 46" is not going to be 4" wider than a 42".

[Systemlord]

Originally Posted by Memnoch

I personally have never seen a better picture on any TV (tube, rear projection, LCD, or plasma) than what I saw this weekend on a 55" Samsung 8000 series LED LCD. It was mind blowing. Watched it all weekend and had a hard time comprehending what was making the difference. Was it the 5,000,000:1 contrast ratio, the 240hz, the LEDs? I don't know, but it easily outshined my LED DLP Samsung that I got about two years back and a brand new 50" Samsung plasma that was bought at the same time. The UN Samsungs are pretty expensive right now, but they will come down, just like everything else. And when they do, I will getting one. Just wish they made a 60"+ one so I could do an even swap, but frankly, the picture was so amazing on the 55", I have considered downsizing, and that says a lot.

I can't believe you actually put any real stock in those inflated contrast ratios!

[steve1971]

Hold out for an LED tv? In my opinion no. But thats just me because LED dont impress me that much. I think going for a Plasma or a good LCD would be the way to go for now at least but the bottom line is its your money. But would I wait? Nope!

[Bunt]

I have the new Vizio LED 55" and love it so far.

[Memnoch]

Originally Posted by Systemlord

I can't believe you actually put any real stock in those inflated contrast ratios!

Inflated or not, this TV stands out above and beyond every other HD set I have ever laid eyes on. So there is something going on here. My father and I have LED DLP rear projections that it easily put to shame. It is the best looking LCD on the market. And my uncle even bought a 50" Samsung plasma at the same time (for a different room) and the LED LCD looks a million times better than that too. So like I said, I don't know why these Samsung UN series LED LCDs look so amazing, but they really are the best thing going right now.

[Sherm]

"Am I gonna buy the LCD now and then want an LED later? "

Of Course you are and you know it.

I just bought a 52" 60hz last year and I'm dying to get the new 8ooo series Samsung. I will get one next Christmas by then they should be 2500.00.

[Sherm]

Originally Posted by Memnoch

Inflated or not, this TV stands out above and beyond every other HD set I have ever laid eyes on. So there is something going on here. My father and I have LED DLP rear projections that it easily put to shame. It is the best looking LCD on the market. And my uncle even bought a 50" Samsung plasma at the same time (for a different room) and the LED LCD looks a million times better than that too. So like I said, I don't know why these Samsung UN series LED LCDs look so amazing, but they really are the best thing going right now.

Could not agree more!!! The new 8000 series beats any Plasma I've seen

[lojack1976]

As always you can't judge these in the store. Read THIS review of the new 8500 Samsung which Samsung's best model. As impressive as it is it still doesn't beat or even match a Kuro. It was even stated that there are other LED LCD's that have deeper blacks than this set although the overall performance of the 8500 is better than those. And no matter how you cut it viewing angles and uniformity will always be issues with LCD's.

[ToonyLoons]

The way I view it is this:
There will always be something better that you may want or that is about to come out. Tech changes and improves so quickly. And prices also drop fairly quickly. It is a tough judgement call.

I like how a lot of people are suggesting upgrading to a newer plasma, but that is not what the OP asked. Personally, I can wait, but I don't like to. If I was in the same boat, I would probably go with the new LCD for $650. You have to ask yourself is the current LED you are looking at worth the $1350 difference. Who knows, next year a comparable LED may be closer to the $700 mark of the LCD you are looking at now.

[Glassroots]

My rule of thumb is always wait a year or too before splurging on new technology.
You guys still remember the price for a 42" Plasma HDTV when they first came out back in 1997, something like $14,999 USD.

[HDorBust]

I say upgrade to a better plasma for sure

[Memnoch]

Originally Posted by lojack1976

As always you can't judge these in the store. Read this review of the new 8500 Samsung...

I actually sat down with these TVs over the weekend at a relative's house. My family members and I own the TVs I mentioned, so these are not "in store" opinions. They are "living room" opinions? Sorry for not making that more clear.

I read the review Samsung review linked above (good info there), but I wasn't trying to debate black levels. What I was trying to say was that in all my research (hands on at my home, family members' homes, online, and in store), I have never seen a better, more perfect (i.e., real) picture than what I experienced with the new Samsung LED LCD 8000 series. I was trying to let everyone know so they could take these Samsungs into consideration before purchasing a new TV.

Don't take it from me though. I encourage anyone to go check these out for themselves. I would suggest the bluray IMAX scene that opens the Dark Knight. I haven't ever seen a picture on any TV, plasmas included, that came anywhere close to what these Samsungs can produce. But picking this kind of thing out is based primarily on personal preference, so anyone can check them out for themselves and decide what looks best to them.

[lojack1976]

Originally Posted by Memnoch

I actually sat down with these TVs over the weekend at a relative's house. My family members and I own the TVs I mentioned, so these are not "in store" opinions. They are "living room" opinions? Sorry for not making that more clear.

I read the review Samsung review linked above (good info there), but I wasn't trying to debate black levels. What I was trying to say was that in all my research (hands on at my home, family members' homes, online, and in store), I have never seen a better, more perfect (i.e., real) picture than what I experienced with the new Samsung LED LCD 8000 series. I was trying to let everyone know so they could take these Samsungs into consideration before purchasing a new TV.

Don't take it from me though. I encourage anyone to go check these out for themselves. I would suggest the bluray IMAX scene that opens the Dark Knight. I haven't ever seen a picture on any TV, plasmas included, that came anywhere close to what these Samsungs can produce. But picking this kind of thing out is based primarily on personal preference, so anyone can check them out for themselves and decide what looks best to them.

Have you had a 9th Gen Kuro in your home? I'm not doubting that the B8500 is a good set, but the pro's still say the Kuro is king even though this set is pretty close. There is one thing that will never change with LCD's and that's off-axis viewing. If it doesn't bother you then that's fine, but I personally want a perfect picture from all angles since I rarely sit in the middle of my couch.

Chad B. over on avsforum reviewed the set. He gives it a glowing review and he even says it's of reference quality as is the LG LH90 and of course the Kuro which it did not quite match, so yes it is a very impressive set. IMO it still doesn't make sense for the price tag since you can still find larger and superior Kuro's in the same price range. Not only that, but the LG which offers almost the exact same performance can be had for half of the money. It even has much better off-axis viewing angles. If you haven't checked out Chad B.'s review HERE it is if you're interested. Also, let's not confuse people with the 8000 series since only the 8500 models are local dimming. The others are edge-lit which are good, but not as good as the 8500.

[McGarnigal]

u could hold out for a 3D tv

[Memnoch]

Originally Posted by lojack1976

... Kuro ... off-axis viewing ... LG LH90 ... Chad B.'s review ... 8000 series ...

Do you have a Samsung UN8000 series in your home? I didn't notice any issues with the Samsung's off-axis viewing because I currently have a rear projection TV, so anything would be an upgrade from that, but yes, it is a known fact that LCDs have better off-axis viewing then rear projection and plasmas have better off-axis viewing than LCDs. I will look into the LG LH90 in my free time today. Thanks for the heads up on that TV. Thanks for Chad B.'s review, very informative. And yes, all Samsung LED LCDs are "edge lit" except for the 8500 ones. The 8500 ones are the only ones with "local dimming" which is better. My uncle has the 8000, so I can only imagine how much better the local dimming model looks, but the mind blowing picture I saw this weekend was the edge lit one.

One comment on the Samsung gloss surface vs. matte since it keeps popping up in these reviews. The Samsung has a very glossy surface, so if you have any light sources in front of the TV, it will be like sitting in front of a mirror. While I think the gloss surface helps the picture retain more clarity than a matte surface would, we had to turn off most the lights in the living room and kitchen to not have bad glare and/or a mirror image of ourselves on the TVs surface. So when these Samsung reviews bring this up, that is a right on the money. I'd say that is the only issue I had with that TV was the awful reflections. If you watch movies in the dark, it's a nonissue. And I wish they made these bigger than 55". I have over a 60" Samsung LED DLP rear-projection right now, so I hate to downsize, but the picture on that Samsung was so much more lifelike that I have to consider it.

So it looks like I will be keeping my eye on good deals for the Samsung UN55B8500, a Pioneer Elite KURO PRO-151FD, and an LG LH90? If you think those are the best TVs right now, I'm cool with that. I know that is the biggest Samsung (55") and I think that is the largest KURO (60") - but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong - so is the LG LH90 (55") as big as they make them? Like I said, I don't want to have to downsize anymore than I have to. Thanks again for all the info.

[gymclothes412]

Memnoch, I replaced my 6 year old 51" Sony rear-projection HDTV with the 55" Samsung 6000 series LED at the end of August when it was on sale for $2399. I fell in love with this TV at first sight. I thought about buying a plasma, but due to the amount of light coming into my living room, I knew it would be a problem.

Yeah, it was expensive and I never imagined myself spending over $2000 for a TV. I've had it for about 3 months and the PQ still amazes me, and mine is only a 6000 series set. I can just imagine what the 8000/8500 series set looks like!

Good luck in your search!

[JimShaw]

6th Ave has the Samsung 55B8000 for sale for $2445.00. The 42" might be at a great price.

I own the 8000 and have looked at the 8500 and did not notice that much difference between the two. What I do like about the 8000 is the fact that it uses less energy, 150 watts turned on and .008 watts off.

It actually uses less then the new 8500.

[Memnoch]

Yeah, I don't understand why the 8000 is about half or what the 8500 costs. I understand that one is edge lit and the other is back lit, but still. I wish I could see them side by side, but none of the stores around here have them on display. Just the smaller models. All the good stuff is kept in boxes.

Aside from the KURO not being made anymore and pretty hard to find, I still hear about plasma picture burn in and plasmas not lasting near as long as LCDs, like just burning out within a couple of years. Those old rumors where even though plasmas have a better picture than LCDs, LCDs are still the way to go because they are cheaper for almost as good a picture, and with a plasma, if you leave a movie, DVR show, or game on pause or a main menu for too long, traces of the image will get stuck on your screen. I've read a couple reviews from plasma owners who are still having issues with that on brand new plasmas that supposedly don't suffer from those issues anymore. Might not be an issue on KUROs, but still has me worried.

I wonder if there are any major picture differences between the 8000 and the 8500. I am going to have to look into that. Like you said, the 8000 is SO much cheaper right now. And I looked into the LG 55LH90 and $2,700 was the cheapest I could find it. I feel more comfortable buying the Samsung since I have seen it in person. I know people are comparing the KURO, LG, and Samsung technically, but if you see the picture on the Samsung, it is just like having people in your TV. Like there is a play going on in your TV. It is as clear as being there in the room with them. I haven't seen anything else that clear, perfect, real, etc. to date. So while it's nice for me to read reviews about how dark a black level is or what viewing angle you can see it from, if I have a choice between a TV that looks like you are on a roof with Dirty Harry and another TV that is like watching Dirty Harry on the roof, I want the one where you are actually on the roof with him, regardless of which one is more technically superior.

Decisions decisions. But thanks to everyone for their input. It is good to hear from everyone and their experiences with their different TVs. Very helpful.

[JimShaw]

Originally Posted by memnoch

the samsung, it is just like having people in your tv. Like there is a play going on in your tv. it is as clear as being there in the room with them. i haven't seen anything else that clear, perfect, real, etc. To date. So while it's nice for me to read reviews about how dark a black level is or what viewing angle you can see it from, if i have a choice between a tv that looks like you are on a roof with dirty harry and another tv that is like watching dirty harry on the roof, i want the one where you are actually on the roof with him, regardless of which one is more technically superior.

That is exactly why I purchased the Samsung LED. It's as if I was standing right next to them in the scene.

And "blacks?" My 8000 setting in my viewing room, watching a Blu, gives great "blacks" and is fantastic on "whites."

Next month I have an appointment to have it calibrated. I am a little nervous about it. As far as I am concerned the PQ is beautiful and almost perfect and I don't want to spend the $$$$$ and have the PQ turn bad.

Why I decided to have it calibrated is because from all I hear on this forum is: it should be done. So, I am doing it in hopes that it possibly might even get better???????????

[lojack1976]

Originally Posted by Memnoch

Do you have a Samsung UN8000 series in your home? I didn't notice any issues with the Samsung's off-axis viewing because I currently have a rear projection TV, so anything would be an upgrade from that, but yes, it is a known fact that LCDs have better off-axis viewing then rear projection and plasmas have better off-axis viewing than LCDs. I will look into the LG LH90 in my free time today. Thanks for the heads up on that TV. Thanks for Chad B.'s review, very informative. And yes, all Samsung LED LCDs are "edge lit" except for the 8500 ones. The 8500 ones are the only ones with "local dimming" which is better. My uncle has the 8000, so I can only imagine how much better the local dimming model looks, but the mind blowing picture I saw this weekend was the edge lit one.

One comment on the Samsung gloss surface vs. matte since it keeps popping up in these reviews. The Samsung has a very glossy surface, so if you have any light sources in front of the TV, it will be like sitting in front of a mirror. While I think the gloss surface helps the picture retain more clarity than a matte surface would, we had to turn off most the lights in the living room and kitchen to not have bad glare and/or a mirror image of ourselves on the TVs surface. So when these Samsung reviews bring this up, that is a right on the money. I'd say that is the only issue I had with that TV was the awful reflections. If you watch movies in the dark, it's a nonissue. And I wish they made these bigger than 55". I have over a 60" Samsung LED DLP rear-projection right now, so I hate to downsize, but the picture on that Samsung was so much more lifelike that I have to consider it.

So it looks like I will be keeping my eye on good deals for the Samsung UN55B8500, a Pioneer Elite KURO PRO-151FD, and an LG LH90? If you think those are the best TVs right now, I'm cool with that. I know that is the biggest Samsung (55") and I think that is the largest KURO (60") - but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong - so is the LG LH90 (55") as big as they make them? Like I said, I don't want to have to downsize anymore than I have to. Thanks again for all the info.

No, I don't have the 8000 in my home but I've seen it several times in the Magnolia room at the local Best Buy. It was actually right below a Pioneer 151FD and a Panasonic V10 was beside the Kuro. It's a pretty good set, but it doesn't come close to the Kuro. Black level is pretty good and it is an overall color accurate set, but clouding was noticeable and off-axis viewing wasn't very good. Blacks didn't match the Kuro or the V10 however.

I haven't seen the 8500 but I would assume that it would be better in the uniformity department and have a more natural rise out of black. Local dimming sets are just much better than the edge lit, but the 8000 is the best edge lit that I've seen. I was very unimpressed with the 6000 for example.

I might also point out that the Toshiba LED was right beside the V10 and it performed pretty well, but even though the blacks were good the shadow detail was pretty bad. The Sharp LED was also present and I must say that I was pretty impressed. The LG was on the other side of the room and it looks very good as well.