A question for HT in basement

[Rebel6666]

HI all, I would like to say thanks to all the members in advance for trying to help me.

Within a month I will be finishing my basement home, I'm making a room espacially for my HT. Here is more information:

Dimensions 14.2 * 14.2 square room is a 10 feet high.

I'm going to buy when my room is done a Panny 4000 projector
I have a AV Pionneer 9130 THXK that will be pushing my Energy C-series set.

Front: 2 C-500
Center: 1 C-100
Sub: S10.3
Surround : 4 C-100.

Now my questions is: Do I really need to build a fake floor? My friend is saying that I should because I won't feel the vibrations. I was going to have laminted wood as a floor directly on the cement.

Now I ask this cause I don't want to pay 600$ more for somthing that isn't really important for me. If I can feel the vibration a bit that would be enough for me. If I compare with my friends HT I feel like he as too much vibrations and feels like the sound ain't that good because of it.

What would you guy's suggest to a guy you is really confused on what is the best thing to do.

[Fors*]

Originally Posted by Rebel6666

HI all, I would like to say thanks to all the members in advance for trying to help me.

Within a month I will be finishing my basement home, I'm making a room espacially for my HT. Here is more information:

Dimensions 14.2 * 14.2 square room is a 10 feet high.

I'm going to buy when my room is done a Panny 4000 projector
I have a AV Pionneer 9130 THXK that will be pushing my Energy C-series set.

Front: 2 C-500
Center: 1 C-100
Sub: S10.3
Surround : 4 C-100.

Now my questions is: Do I really need to build a fake floor? My friend is saying that I should because I won't feel the vibrations. I was going to have laminted wood as a floor directly on the cement.

Now I ask this cause I don't want to pay 600$ more for somthing that isn't really important for me. If I can feel the vibration a bit that would be enough for me. If I compare with my friends HT I feel like he as too much vibrations and feels like the sound ain't that good because of it.

What would you guy's suggest to a guy you is really confused on what is the best thing to do.

What kind of vibrations are you looking for? Is is something you want only from loud explosions and real low LFE scenes that you can really feel or something more subtle, but is much more frequent?

Regardless, it seems it isn't that imporant to you, so I would not worry about it. If you do want some additional "vibrations", then why not look to improve your low end with an even better sub that can get below 20Hz and has more than 200 watts of cotinuous power than the Energy S10.3? The sub you have is very good, don't get me wrong, as I'm not trying to put it down, but possibly an even better sub may give you not only improved low frequency response but some of the improved "vibrations" as well. Just my 2 cents I'm throwing out there..........

[Blown 4.3]

the first thing you need to do is find out just what can be proprerly installed on your slab.
which includes the condition of the slab.

btw. laminate flooring is pretty much junk.

go here and look/read. that are a few HT guys in there.
http://forum.doityourself.com/

[tilallr1]

Let me start off by saying there are mixed reviews with building a sub-floor. But typically the acoustical issues associated with hard flooring vs carpeting are numerous. You need to reduce reflections and carpeting is the way to go. Building a sub floor is really only good for insulating the room, but doesn't really do too much for sound. I know since I did that on my first house's HT with Laminate flooring and decided to go the cheaper route and went carpeting over slab on my second HT. Much better sound IMO. Way too much echo with hard flooring, which you can basically never properly fix. My suggestion is to go carpeting right over the slab. Just get the best underpad money can buy and you will be much happier with the sound.

Also, the dimensions of your room (A square) are unfortunately the worst you can make it. Anything you can do to make it rectangular? A home theater space should be similar to that of a movie theater: an enclosed, rectangular room. Shape influences how sound bounces around the room so a perfectly square room or a room that's twice as long as it's wide can produce "muddy" sound patterns. The perfect room? About one-and-a half times as long as it is wide. And it should be enclosed for the best sound quality since wide-open rooms don't have ideal acoustics.

Ultimately, if you are trying to feel the LFE (Bass) I would suggest investing in a more powerful sub or better yet butt-kickers. Which will give you the kick, without rattling the walls. Most people think that its the single greatest addition to their HT.

[Agrare]

Originally Posted by Rebel6666

Dimensions 14.2 * 14.2 square room is a 10 feet high.

Originally Posted by tilallr1

Let me start off by saying there are mixed reviews with building a sub-floor. But typically the acoustical issues associated with hard flooring vs carpeting are numerous. You need to reduce reflections and carpeting is the way to go. Building a sub floor is really only good for insulating the room, but doesn't really do too much for sound. I know since I did that on my first house's HT with Laminate flooring and decided to go the cheaper route and went carpeting over slab on my second HT. Much better sound IMO. Way too much echo with hard flooring, which you can basically never properly fix. My suggestion is to go carpeting right over the slab. Just get the best underpad money can buy and you will be much happier with the sound.

Also, the dimensions of your room (A square) are unfortunately the worst you can make it. Anything you can do to make it rectangular? A home theater space should be similar to that of a movie theater: an enclosed, rectangular room. Shape influences how sound bounces around the room so a perfectly square room or a room that's twice as long as it's wide can produce "muddy" sound patterns. The perfect room? About one-and-a half times as long as it is wide. And it should be enclosed for the best sound quality since wide-open rooms don't have ideal acoustics.

I don't have near the knowledge of some people here but if I was finishing a basement for a home theater I'd definitely go carpet. Not only would it help with reflections but it would be so much more comfortable. Nice thick padding under a soft carpet. Also, not sure if I'd put a sub floor down, would probably depend on the conditions of the slab. I'd look into if it was needed for putting carpet down and from the sound of it it doesn't seem like it would be.

I also agree on room size. I did some searching when I was looking into a theater for ideal dimensions (someone here had stated proper length\width based on height available (that's generally your limiting factor) and I found this site http://www.cinemasource.com/articles...des/modes.html

that actually gives 3 different ratios you can have (the calculator didnt work for me so i wrote a quick program that takes in a height and gives the 3 dimensions) based on your height of 10' that would allow for these 3 room dimensions

L x W x H
A) 15.8 x 11.4 x 10
B) 13.9 x 12.8 x 10
C) 23.3 x 16 x 10

so if you can get a bit more length you can go with A but otherwise B would be your best bet. B would probably also use the most of your 14.2 x 14.2 area. It would also give you room around the sides to build decoupled walls. to help with sound isolation.

-Agrare

[Rebel6666]

OK thanks for the replies guy's,

So if I understand you guy's right it's better to have a room longer than larger and needs to be rectangular. Even if I don't quite undestand why my sound would be better in a rectangular room. So by being sqaure you think thta my sound won't be good?? What can I do if I can't move my room in a more rectangular way will it make a big difference in the quality of the sound?


2- Carpet? so if I put carpet with a decent undercarpet I should still feel the little bass? Yes butt kickers I will buy.

[ak808]

Here is my experience from going from carpet to woodfloor. I too have concrete under my floor just like you. When installing the flooring and all furniture removed from the room the room became very echoey. You could hear the echo in just plain speech. Clap test would have failed hands down. Once the furniture and what not was put in place the echos went away. As far as vibrations from the lfe I can not feel any on the floor itself. However, it seems like my neighbor can feel it on his roof. His roof is on level with my floor. While watching my first lfe heavy movie (Hulk) he came over and said that his roof was shaking. It could have been also that I just got a supercube I and was demoing it for a friend and his gf. So I bought a subwoofer riser and built some bass traps/acoustic panels and no complaints so far. I even added another 10inch sub just recently as well. To me woodflooring just looks nicer and I don't have to worry so much about my dog bringing in dirt or mud stains on the carpet anymore. As far as acoustic goes I'm sure my room is no recording studio but dialog and sound is still crisp and clear

[Rebel6666]

Huh geez I'm more confused than nothing. So you are saying that the sound is better with your wood floor than carpet? You didn't add anything for the dimension of my room?

1- Carpet or Laminated wood floor on cement floor?? Not Hard wood I would like to have a bit of vibrance?


2- Dimension: IS there a big difference of sound from a Square room to Rectangular.

Just you you guy's know I wnat to have a decent sound with a little of vibration

[D_M]

Originally Posted by tilallr1

Ultimately, if you are trying to feel the LFE (Bass) I would suggest investing in a more powerful sub or better yet butt-kickers. Which will give you the kick, without rattling the walls. Most people think that its the single greatest addition to their HT.

Amen brother. I just added a Buttkicker LFE kit to my dual SVS Pluses and it was a fantastic addition. I can't recommend it more highly.

[kingofgrills]

Originally Posted by Rebel6666

OK thanks for the replies guy's,

So if I understand you guy's right it's better to have a room longer than larger and needs to be rectangular. Even if I don't quite undestand why my sound would be better in a rectangular room. So by being sqaure you think thta my sound won't be good?? What can I do if I can't move my room in a more rectangular way will it make a big difference in the quality of the sound?


2- Carpet? so if I put carpet with a decent undercarpet I should still feel the little bass? Yes butt kickers I will buy.

The concern with hard surface floors is not whether or not you can feel the bass response, as you're inferring. Hard surfaces have high reflection, which will make you introduce echoing into your system, causing it to lose detail.

I would be much more worried about loss of sound detail in the room as opposed to whether or not you feel bass through the floor. I would recommend that you finish the room off properly and focus more on adding accoustical treatments to the room, such as bass traps and absorption panels placed at reflecting points.

Once you do treat the room, I'd recommend upgrading your sub to a better unit. Your current sub will be the biggest thing holding back your bass response in the room.

[rlf3911]

I wouldnt worry about a sub floor. Def go for some nice carpet and pad though.

[Rebel6666]

OK so carpet it will be with a decent pad. I will atleast feel a bit of vibrations but I will definatly buy Butt kickers.

But now waht about room dimensions I have 14.2 x 14.2 square room, I will have a lot of deficulty to have it like 15.2 x 14.2 but is there a big difference in the sound quality?


Some of you are talking about acoustics absorbant what si that and do one of you have a link to see what it is exactly sorry I'm a noob

[ak808]

Sorry to confuse you. I guess what I was trying to say is that with the wood floor and nothing else in the room/bare room the accoustics were pretty bad. But, when everything was put back into the room and the treatments were installed I really can't say that the audio is better or worse then having carpet. Another words it sounds good right now. My room dimensions is kinda wierd. It's 28x14 with a sloped ceiling. On the 28' side I have a 14' wide and 10' high wall. That is where my screen is. My projector is mounted 14ft away from the screen at 8ft high. So if you picture the whole room and cut it in half that is where my "theater" is. It's an open floor plan. I have some pics in my gallery to give you an idea of what it looks like

[ak808]

In all honesty I wouldn't worry about the room dimensions. Just do the best with what your given. Few of us have the luxury of having a room that allows us to properly place our speakers. Even fewer of us have the luxury of having a room with wife pleasing room accoustics. Just try to place your speakers as close as you can to the proper position and enjoy. Later on as you do more research on the matter you can add things to improve your room. The main thing I would be focusing on at this moment is making the room soundproof.

[kurtis21]

Originally Posted by Rebel6666

OK so carpet it will be with a decent pad. I will atleast feel a bit of vibrations but I will definatly buy Butt kickers.

But now waht about room dimensions I have 14.2 x 14.2 square room, I will have a lot of deficulty to have it like 15.2 x 14.2 but is there a big difference in the sound quality?


Some of you are talking about acoustics absorbant what si that and do one of you have a link to see what it is exactly sorry I'm a noob

Yes carpet will be a BIG difference. You don't need anything expensive (I have a burbor carpet...cheap) but by having a carpet it will help ALOT with your sound...otherwise you will have echo's Also, everyone's right....the more rectangular your room the better. A perfectly square room is an acoustical nightmare!! If you can offset your room a little by making it more rectangular....also add carpet....and then add your seats...you shouldn't really need acoustical absorbments on the walls. Best way to see if you need acoustical wall panels...when your room is finished...turn up the volume on your favorite Blu & see if you hear any echo's. If not...you're good! Everyone is going to have a different opinion...It's YOUR room...just go by your ears and trust em'!

[D_M]

Originally Posted by ak808

In all honesty I wouldn't worry about the room dimensions. Just do the best with what your given. Few of us have the luxury of having a room that allows us to properly place our speakers. Even fewer of us have the luxury of having a room with wife pleasing room accoustics. Just try to place your speakers as close as you can to the proper position and enjoy. Later on as you do more research on the matter you can add things to improve your room. The main thing I would be focusing on at this moment is making the room soundproof.

My HT room is 12x12 and it's fantastic despite the square shape. You can work with it.

[Fors*]

We all work to some degree with the limitations of our rooms. Mine is a rectangle, but I only use 1/2 of it as my HT. I find the lack of a back wall behind where I sit (due to the fact I only use the front 1/2 of the room) really plays havoc on my dialog, due to a lack of reflections. I haven't figured out how to improve it yet without adding a wall, but mine is just an example that you have to work with what you got.

[Rebel6666]

Thanks all for your replies this definatly helped me, this is really the best forum for guy's like me who are trying to learn.

[Fors*]

Originally Posted by Rebel6666

Thanks all for your replies this definatly helped me, this is really the best forum for guy's like me who are trying to learn.

Thats why I stayed here....good friendly people with lost of knowledge who want to share the hobby! A year later and you can see in my sig what they did for me.....your wallet will learn to hate you soon enough!

[avncars]

What would you guy's suggest to a guy you is really confused on what is the best thing to do.[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Rebel6666

HI all, I would like to say thanks to all the members in advance for trying to help me.

Within a month I will be finishing my basement home, I'm making a room espacially for my HT. Here is more information:

Dimensions 14.2 * 14.2 square room is a 10 feet high.

I'm going to buy when my room is done a Panny 4000 projector
I have a AV Pionneer 9130 THXK that will be pushing my Energy C-series set.

Front: 2 C-500
Center: 1 C-100
Sub: S10.3
Surround : 4 C-100.

Now my questions is: Do I really need to build a fake floor? My friend is saying that I should because I won't feel the vibrations. I was going to have laminted wood as a floor directly on the cement.

Now I ask this cause I don't want to pay 600$ more for somthing that isn't really important for me. If I can feel the vibration a bit that would be enough for me. If I compare with my friends HT I feel like he as too much vibrations and feels like the sound ain't that good because of it.

What would you guy's suggest to a guy you is really confused on what is the best thing to do.

hi, i have almost the same exact room as you. first off, No. you do not need a "fake" floor. there is no reason other than throwing your money away. i have a hardwood floor right on top a concrete floor, actually i have the padding in between, and make sure you do the same! now what i do have is a 6" riser across the entire back and it abot 5' deep. if you are planning for a second row, this is an absolute must...good luck!