BluRays on Standard Def. TVs on a PS3

[simpspin]

I know you need an HDTVs to get the full effect, but I heard that the PS3's playback of BD discs actually look worse than regular DVDs when displayed on a 480i/p TV.

Is this true?

[Blackraven]

Originally Posted by simpspin

I know you need an HDTVs to get the full effect, but I heard that the PS3's playback of BD discs actually look worse than regular DVDs when displayed on a 480i/p TV.

Is this true?

Now that's what I want to know as well.

In my country, around 50% of the PS3 buyers (come next year) would still be using old-school CRT TVs from the 90's. Meaning everything will be at 480 res.

Hope to hear what others would have to say.

[JTK]

Honestly? You'd be better saving up money and getting an HDTV first before bothering with anything else.

No HDTV? Don't bother.

[partridge]

JTK, when you say don't bother do you mean that from a movie point of view or games? I can understand the movie problem (why would you bother, just stick to DVD!), but surely all PS3 games should run perfectly well on a CRT tv?

[JTK]

Originally Posted by partridge

JTK, when you say don't bother do you mean that from a movie point of view or games? I can understand the movie problem (why would you bother, just stick to DVD!), but surely all PS3 games should run perfectly well on a CRT tv?

It'll all run fine if the non HDTV accepts and runs 480p, but personally, I just don't see the point.

CRT TV in and of itself doesn't matter. That's what I have but mine is an HDTV.

I don't care what technology it is: If it's not an HDTV, I think it's a waste of time and money to buy HD game systems, HD games, and HD movies until you have an HDTV.

Why would anyone buy high def games, game systems, or high def movies to view them on a non-HDTV?

That's a lot of money right there. I think that person would be better off making an HDTV priority one and then working their way out from there.

[Josh]

Blu-ray movies on a SD TV have the potential to look better, but there is no guaranty. Many DVDs released today are mastered from the same HD source as the Blu-ray, so I can't see how the Blu-ray would look any better in SD.

For example, Unforgiven was originally released on DVD. It was then re-released in 10th Anniversary form being re-encoded from an HD master. If you owned the original, the BD would be superior to that in SD, but I can't see it being superior to the 10th Anniversary version.

Of course, with the Blu-ray you get the better menus and evenutally exclusive content.

[Deciazulado]

Originally Posted by JTK

I don't care what technology it is: If it's not an HDTV, I think it's a waste of time and money to buy HD game systems, HD games, and HD movies until you have an HDTV.

Why would anyone buy high def games, game systems, or high def movies to view them on a non-HDTV?

HDTV Fuder! ban him!

j/k

but actually in my opinion there are legitimate reasons to buy HD titles even if you can only play them in a normal TV only for now: one of them is money

IF you buy a title on DVD now, then, you will have to buy it again if you want to watch it on HD when you get the HDTV. Buy in HD now, watch in SD, watch in HD later

That's one reason i made up the Apocalist. To know for sure what not to buy in DVD anymore and get in HD.


Also, if the downconversion is done properly from the 1080p, you're bound to get a better image, as most DVD transfers are optimized to not have artifacts on 480i CRTs (they are vertically filtered or "softened") so the 1080p downconvert would probably look sharper (and maybe twitter more on a 480i TV )
Second, the image might look cleaner and less noisy specially the colors, cus you'll have downconverted the 1080p compression noise and grain to less than a 4th its size, and then, on-display noise will be at the limits of the 480 display electronics. While on a DVD you get the 480 pixel compression noise as is.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Well, a lot of gamers (esp the kids) won't have the money to buy both an HDTV and a PS3 (Or 360 in the case of the HD-DVD add-on) and they'll opt to get the game system first, because they don't want to miss out on all the cool new games available. And of course, since the system plays BD's, they're going to get some and try it out.

Me? I plan to get a PS3 eventually and unless I have the cash to also get an HDTV anytime soon, I'm going to stick to buying DVD's until I get an HDTV.

[Blackraven]

Originally Posted by JTK

Honestly? You'd be better saving up money and getting an HDTV first before bothering with anything else.

No HDTV? Don't bother.

I beg to interfere but this shouldn't be the case IMO. There is no need for HD capability to be forced down people's throats in regards to the PS3. Meaning the choice of either SD or HD must be present at all times. Nevertheless, the status quo so far is that Sony recognizes that majority of people globally still have old-school 480 sets and that they won't alienate these customers when they wish to get a PS3.

To give a slight example, my family can only purchase a 32 inch Samsung HDTV and that's already under 100k pesos. Quite cheap for us but definitely not to the majority of families in this poor country. It's even a niche/novelty to even have HDTV here in the Philippines and 1080p sets are still very expensive atm. So until the end of the year, these will only represent less than 1% of all TVs in this country. In fact, some of my friends are fearing that you need a special TV (ie. an HDTV) to run the PS3. Otherwise, it may not run or it may look like s**t. I tried to dispel those fears by saying that since PS3 supports 480 resolutions, you are not doomed when you buy a PS3. Well that's what I believed (in that it would work on any SDTV/EDTV) but even I myself had started to make doubts if this was true or not. Thus, I decided to consult this thread for answers.

Going back though......

The point of the PS3 is to NOT force (or require) its buyers to purchase HDTVs. These would only come later on if consumers would want to maximize further by buying HDTV sets (esp. those with HDMI 1.3) but the default should still remain for those who can't afford HDTV sets atm (especially for countries where HD is not available yet even on OTA/broadcast). And since costs for HDTV need to drop further in these select countries before these can be recognized by the mass-market.

Nevertheless, I think the point of this thread is to know if SD would still look good (or better) on the PS3 than compared to the PS2. Or it serves to inform if people who purchase PS3s and still only have SDTV/EDTV are doomed or not.

I still have faith though that Sony hasn't given up on the poor people of the world (ie. those that only have 1080i-only and SDTV/EDTV sets) and they will be kind to help them through firmware updates on the PS3. This amount of confidence shows that I still believe Sony is capable of winning the hearts of the old TV set owners and I'm still believe that they won't give up on their promise.

So maybe SDTV set owners are not doomed after all (hopefully). We'll wait and see on what happens. Besides that, we could also probably put in here the issue of how upcoming firmware releases could improve performance on SD (to a level that exceeds the PS2 itself).

The poor people out there (whoever you are) are not doomed....hopefully.

Any other feedback appreciated.

[Blackraven]

Originally Posted by NuSoardGraphite

Well, a lot of gamers (esp the kids) won't have the money to buy both an HDTV and a PS3 (Or 360 in the case of the HD-DVD add-on) and they'll opt to get the game system first, because they don't want to miss out on all the cool new games available. And of course, since the system plays BD's, they're going to get some and try it out.

Me? I plan to get a PS3 eventually and unless I have the cash to also get an HDTV anytime soon, I'm going to stick to buying DVD's until I get an HDTV.

Your questions will be answered here. The panel of experts here in the Blu-ray forum have given you advice and others will give inputs/feedback as well.

But as I've stated in my earlier post, I still predict that SD resolution (for standard DVD and PS1/PS2 games) will look better on the PS3 than on the PS2 with upcoming firmware updates.

Well that's what I predict could happen. (and I want to believe that it will)

[blackjackshalack]

Why would it look worse? It really doesn't make any sense. It's not going to turn a BD into a VHS. If anything it will still look better and certianly sound better. IF you have your tv hooked up to a descent audio system you will at least get improved sound quality. They are all in at least 5.1(some 6.1 variying from lossless, DTS etc...) whcih is going ot be better than all the older movies on DVD that were in 2.0 dolby and even recent releases that are in 5.1 dolby because there won't be so much compression to fit it on a DVD.

If you don't have a nice audio system or an HDtv then to me it doesn't really amke sense to buy BD movies unless you plan on purchasing htem down the road. IF you are then it certainly doens't make sense to buy them on DVD then buy all the new equipment so you can buy the movie again on BD. But the BD disks cost more than regular DVD's so why spend more money on the movie if you aren't going to get what you are paying for?

[Aaron]

Originally Posted by NuSoardGraphite

Well, a lot of gamers (esp the kids) won't have the money to buy both an HDTV and a PS3 (Or 360 in the case of the HD-DVD add-on) and they'll opt to get the game system first, because they don't want to miss out on all the cool new games available. And of course, since the system plays BD's, they're going to get some and try it out.

Me? I plan to get a PS3 eventually and unless I have the cash to also get an HDTV anytime soon, I'm going to stick to buying DVD's until I get an HDTV.

The only reason I decided to get a PS3 is because of our 62" 1080i Toshiba, (I also have a 30" CRT 1080i in my room). I agree that there would be no point in getting a PS3 unless you have an HDTV over 30". I hooked ithe PS3 up on an old 19" $100 tv to see if it would be worth it, and of course it wasn't

[HD4me]

Computer monitor, that's all you need.

Check out an IBM P275, big ol' 21" CRT 4:3 monitor that'll do 1920x1440 with ease, or you can just do 1920x1080 and adjust the screen. You can get them for about $135 shipped in the US. It has both DVI and VGA connections, BTW.

Or, there's the big ol' 24" widescreen CRT they sell on Ebay for about $300-400. It's called a FW009W or something close to that, I forget what it's called, but you can find it by searching for 24" widescreen CRT

[helli3yte]

Originally Posted by joshd2012

Blu-ray movies on a SD TV have the potential to look better, but there is no guaranty. Many DVDs released today are mastered from the same HD source as the Blu-ray, so I can't see how the Blu-ray would look any better in SD.

For example, Unforgiven was originally released on DVD. It was then re-released in 10th Anniversary form being re-encoded from an HD master. If you owned the original, the BD would be superior to that in SD, but I can't see it being superior to the 10th Anniversary version.

Of course, with the Blu-ray you get the better menus and evenutally exclusive content.

i completely agree with the almighty super bunny

[Amon37]

The textures and graphics on a PS3 will still look awesome compared to a PS2 on a 480 set. They just won't look as good as 720/1080. I personally bought an HDTV knowing I was getting a PS3 in the future. I'm fortunate enough to be able to afford both. Even if your not I still suggest getting a PS3 for 480 TV.

Edit: I'm speaking for a Game standpoint. As far as movies well I wouldn't spend the extra money unless you just want to to get your collection started.

[Paladin]

If you don't have a HDTV why would you even get a Blu Ray disk of a movie?

If your PS3 is hooked up to a regular T.V. get the standard DVD, it'll save you a ton of money.

Paladin

[JTK]

Originally Posted by HD4me

Computer monitor, that's all you need.

Check out an IBM P275, big ol' 21" CRT 4:3 monitor that'll do 1920x1440 with ease, or you can just do 1920x1080 and adjust the screen. You can get them for about $135 shipped in the US. It has both DVI and VGA connections, BTW.

Or, there's the big ol' 24" widescreen CRT they sell on Ebay for about $300-400. It's called a FW009W or something close to that, I forget what it's called, but you can find it by searching for 24" widescreen CRT

"Computer monitor."

That is the one "exception" to my earlier comments that I wrote in this thread and still stand by 100 percent.

I wouldn't invest any money in 4:3 anything nor would I endorse buying CRT at this point unless you have the space and don't care if it weighs 300 lbs. or not.

For under a grand, you can even get a Dell 2407, which is arguably the best widescreen LCD monitor on the market right now that does 1080p, 1:1 scaling, HDCP, the works as of revision A04. BenQ and Samsung are some other leading companies you can look at as well.

I'd get the best LCD PC monitor you could if you want to get something really nice for a grand or less and you can adjust your viewing distance accordingly.

[Betamax]

Ok, I guess its time to post my .2 cents and let the flaming begin. I am currently watching everything I have on a Sony XBR61 sd tv. I never upgraded to high-def for quite a few reasons but I will admit I now will be before the end of this year. My tv is calibrated professionally and even though its up there in age it still looks smooth throughout the color pallette and the darks and lights are still crisp. Using the PS3 for a reference cause it will play both BD and SD discs, I will absolutely say I see a difference! Certain scenes look better in BD than in the SD discs, and some movies just look about the same. Blazing Saddles. Ok, its not an action movie but there is a major difference in the BD and the original SD I have. Overall most movies seem to be more vivid in colors and are usually a little less grainy than the original SD releases. Afterall, the more you keep shrinking the bitrate for any movie the more degraded it will look {obviously}. The thing is at what point can your eyes notice a difference? Some of the high def tvs I have seen in the stores are so ridiculously out of adjustment that anything you play on it looks bad {oversaturated, to high contrast,ect.}. Luckily the early adaptors are usually the ones that have a properly tuned set and are watching a true reproduction. I am not saying anything against high def sets. It is kind of silly to have a players that output 1080p while your watching a 480 television, but to absolutely say there is no benefit to watching BD on an SD set is silly too. Waiting for the flames.....

[ProvenFlipper]

I was thinking that even though the res would be the same as DVD, wouldn't the extra bitrate play a huge difference in the look of a BD on a SD TV. I would assume there would be less posterization and macroblocking when watching BD on a SD TV.

[Gremal]

Originally Posted by partridge

JTK, when you say don't bother do you mean that from a movie point of view or games? I can understand the movie problem (why would you bother, just stick to DVD!), but surely all PS3 games should run perfectly well on a CRT tv?

Using my PS3, the PS2 games appear more pixalated and visibly worse than they did using the PS2. I don't know if this is intentional on Sony's part, to drive sales of new games. You'd think the PS3, with its processing power, would be able to make PS2 games look better. That's not my experience.

I agree with the others who are saying if you don't have an HD-ready TV, don't bother.