Star Wars Conceptual Failure?

[BarkingGhost]

Ok, so the wife kept channel surfing through commercials yesterday and that included stops on Spike TV and watching the original three SW movies. Playing the devil's advocate, I considered the story of the Empire.

Was life under the empire really all that bad for the individual? We see a lot of political conditions, military, etc., and we see the rebel scum doing their thing as a counter-military effort, but I am not sure the wide-spread negative aspects being insinuated were really illustrated to any degree, let alone one justifying a rebellion.

Sure, the Emperor was a bad dude, and he had his evil sidekick, and the Empire kept order in the universe, but with the exception of exceptions, like the planet Tatooine, it seems that life for the individual was pretty nice.

Heck, even life on Tatooine a la Luke's life was not bad. How many want a land speeder? Robots? Sure, girls were few and far, but as a hard life it really wasn't all that hard.

I expected to see mass populations in labor camps to illustrate the bad aspect of the Empire, but what I got was something different. It wasn't like the Roman Colosseum (circus).

The only thing I was missing was home theater and Blu-ray movies.

[mike79]

True good points. Also you didn't have to worry about being drafted into the army because all the soldiers were cloned storm troopers.

[groove93]

"There's a difference between us. You think the people of this country exist to provide you with position. I think your position exists to provide those people with freedom. And I go to make sure that they have it."


William Wallace from Braveheart

[BluBonnet]

Gee, I don't know. Could it possibly have been that Lucas was counting on the audience to have enough imagination to fill in all the details about stuff that wasn't shown?

Lucas came from a generation that still spent considerable time listening to radio serials, and with those you really had to use your imagination to picture everything that was going on.

Nowadays, many folks want all the information spoon-fed to them. This in turn makes many filmmakers adopt a condescending attitude towards the audience, showing visually many things that could simply be assumed, or imagined by the audience.

As Ethan Edwards said, "Want me to draw you a picture?"

[scragham]

i think that you are, as the above poster says, envisioning a different picture of what ordinary empire life was like.

i envision something more along the lines of occupied europe during ww2, with the empire's version of the gestapo infesting every planet rooting out real and perceived dissension.

[Blu-Benny]

people can't imagine things anymore....it's sad really.

why look @ a saga from this point of view???

and technically, doesn't the prequel trilogy set up the empire being bad.....if but a little??

don't get me wrong op....i can def. appreciate what you are saying, but why dig into a great saga like this and trivilaize it??

[Gabriel360]

Do we need to see people suffering? Isn't it enough for the story to tell you that the Empire is evil and seeks to control everyone while the Rebels are the good guys trying to free the galaxy from the Emperor's rule?

[groove93]

Exactly!!!! And this is why I used that line from Braveheart. To think that everything is "OK" is about as short-sided as Barbara Bush's comments on the people of New Orleans who were moved to Houston.

The films were meant for KIDS!!!

If you think that everything was really ok, maybe you should look up some footage with Sadaam Hussein greeting his "People" and look at their frightened faces as he speaks to them.

[ACD]

Well, the Empire did blow up a whole planet as a demonstration of the Death Star. But hey, they're not that bad, everyone who was not on Alderaan must be living peaceful lives not having to worry about storm troopers killing them for buying a couple of droids or something.

[The Dragon]

Originally Posted by BarkingGhost

...Was life under the empire really all that bad for the individual? We see a lot of political conditions, military, etc., and we see the rebel scum doing their thing as a counter-military effort, but I am not sure the wide-spread negative aspects being insinuated were really illustrated to any degree, let alone one justifying a rebellion.

Sure, the Emperor was a bad dude, and he had his evil sidekick, and the Empire kept order in the universe, but with the exception of exceptions, like the planet Tatooine, it seems that life for the individual was pretty nice.

Heck, even life on Tatooine a la Luke's life was not bad. How many want a land speeder? Robots? Sure, girls were few and far, but as a hard life it really wasn't all that hard.

I expected to see mass populations in labor camps to illustrate the bad aspect of the Empire, but what I got was something different. It wasn't like the Roman Colosseum (circus).

"So this is how Democracy ends?... "

-Senator Amedala, ROTS.

[EricJ]

Originally Posted by BarkingGhost

Ok, so the wife kept channel surfing through commercials yesterday and that included stops on Spike TV and watching the original three SW movies.

Ah, the ones before the prequel Bush metaphors...That would explain it.

Playing the devil's advocate, I considered the story of the Empire.

Was life under the empire really all that bad for the individual?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Khpve3O-Ck
(Note: Pre-Clone Wars canon)

[jadedeath]

Originally Posted by Blu-Benny

why look @ a saga from this point of view???

Maybe the OP has gone over to the dark side and he doesn't see the Sith as "all that bad"

I mean, let's completely ignore that the Emperor was responsible for abolishing the Senate and the mass slaughter of the Jedi and blowing up an entire planet just to prove a point.

Yup, if you ignore that, the Sith really aren't all that bad.........

Logan

[Batman1980]

The Emperor destroyed planets in various ways, he committed genocide, he was a speciest (he didn't allow aliens to join Empire ranks, only humans). He was a tyrant.

[koontz1973]

Destroyed a planet
Killed indiscriminately
Torture
Killed younglings (Blame Lucas for calling them that).
Wiped out all Jedi (apart from 2) all that power and he could not find them)
Started a war to take over the senate
Killed partners in said war
Abolished said senate
Hostile takeovers of business
Allowed own troops to die in meteorite belt
Chopping of limbs (own son for goodness sake. How bad does Vadar need to get).

Loads more stuff to rank the Empire up there with the worst of them.

Then again, the Rebel Alliance was just a terrorist organisation that won. So if the winners wrote history, the Empire may of been good but with bad press.

[Lord_Stewie]

Originally Posted by koontz1973

Destroyed a planet
Killed indiscriminately
Torture
Killed younglings (Blame Lucas for calling them that).
Wiped out all Jedi (apart from 2) all that power and he could not find them)
Started a war to take over the senate
Killed partners in said war
Abolished said senate
Hostile takeovers of business
Allowed own troops to die in meteorite belt
Chopping of limbs (own son for goodness sake. How bad does Vadar need to get).

Loads more stuff to rank the Empire up there with the worst of them.

Then again, the Rebel Alliance was just a terrorist organisation that won. So if the winners wrote history, the Empire may of been good but with bad press.

Palpatine also destroyed the planet of Caamas. He constructed giant weapons of mass destruction. He created the largest galactic army ever. He enslaved aliens to work for him on the planet Byss, which is a Dark Side conduit. It's a Dark Side-infected planet. He completed two books on the Dark Side, and wasn't able to finish a third. His own men tried to overthrow him. He dissolved the Galactic Senate. He killed politicians. He operated with Black Sun, a criminal organization. Etc. etc.

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by koontz1973

Destroyed a planet
Killed indiscriminately
Torture
Killed younglings (Blame Lucas for calling them that).
Wiped out all Jedi (apart from 2) all that power and he could not find them)
Started a war to take over the senate
Killed partners in said war
Abolished said senate
Hostile takeovers of business
Allowed own troops to die in meteorite belt
Chopping of limbs (own son for goodness sake. How bad does Vadar need to get).

Loads more stuff to rank the Empire up there with the worst of them.

Then again, the Rebel Alliance was just a terrorist organisation that won. So if the winners wrote history, the Empire may of been good but with bad press.

Destroyed more than 1 planet
More than Yoda and Obi-Wan remained.

[Blu-Benny]

Originally Posted by jadedeath

Maybe the OP has gone over to the dark side and he doesn't see the Sith as "all that bad"

I mean, let's completely ignore that the Emperor was responsible for abolishing the Senate and the mass slaughter of the Jedi and blowing up an entire planet just to prove a point.

Yup, if you ignore that, the Sith really aren't all that bad.........

Logan

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by Blu-Benny

people can't imagine things anymore....it's sad really.

I blame video games

But actually this lack of imagination as been coming up slowly in the last 20 years. In the mid 80's the Lego toys that was all about using your imagination to built stuff were change from already made packages where all you had to do was to follow the instructions to built. There was no longer need to use your brain. Sure we also had toys when I was a kid but we were outside using our imagination most of the time. Now a days kids spend their entire days sitting in front of a box killing monsters or gansters or aliens....Lack of imagination is all over, look at the new generation now in Hollywood with these remake. No need to use our brains, no need to use our imagination. Let's just grab something that was made 20 years ago and make it more dark and edgy. Look at all these TV shows from the past being turn into movies. I swear it won't belong before we see Jack Benny Show The Movie on the big screen.

[Gabriel360]

Originally Posted by Gandalf Stormcrow

The Emperor destroyed planets in various ways, he committed genocide, he was a speciest (he didn't allow aliens to join Empire ranks, only humans). He was a tyrant.

I don't recall seeing any women working for the Empire either.

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by Gabriel360

I don't recall seeing any women working for the Empire either.

There is a few in the expanded universe but they are rare