The War is Over

[Jazar]

Is this the AVS post you guys were talking about that got deleted? I thought it was very well written and true.

The War is Over. Blu-ray has won, and deep down we all know it

Blu-ray is stomping HD-DVD in sales and movies and STILL has all the CE and studio support advantage it has enjoyed since the beginning. It's over. The war is over. Blu-ray won and all we have to do is wait for HD-DVD to CONTINUE to die. And deep down we all know it.

It really makes sense for self described Blu-ray fanboys like me to not post much anymore on here: Blu-ray is winning in absolutely everything and has no signs of slowing down. And it is winning with everything that counts. Capacity, bandwidth, number of movies, number of studios, numbers of players to choose from, copy protection with new methods yet to be implemented while HD-DVD is stuck, disc reliability with owners of both formats reporting Blu-ray is much more reliable, Blu-ray discs are on average CHEAPER because of no combos, and now Blu-ray has a very clear lead in SALES. I mean what else left is there? We've been hearing for months how "studios will just follow the money" but notice you don't hear that coming from the other side anymore.

What's funny if you look back, the HD-DVD camp has been wrong about just about everything. Hindsight is 20-20. Just look how many "regulars" don't post anymore on here and don't infiltrate every thread. There is a REASON why they don't post much anymore on here. There is nothing really left to argue over. And when they do, the arguments now a days have become just sad and not interesting, which is why I don't post much anymore. I know deep down that they are laughing a little bit inside when the arguments have turned to pornography and Shinco players with no price or release dates. It was fun when we didn't know what the future held as much and the arguments were heated, but now we are supposed to take HD-DVD seriously?

It's amazing how BD proved all these arguments wrong.

Let me summarize:

Remember BD-50's were just science fiction and would never come out? BD-50's were "inherently flawed." Then they did come out.

Then BD-50's were too expensive and wouldn't be common. They were inherently flawed to always be expensive and rare and "not needed." Why? Because the side arguing didn't have the capacity. Then they became more common.

Then MPEG-2 and BD-25 could not reproduce great quality--it was inherently flawed. Then MI:III came out.

Then BD players were all "twice the price of HD-DVD" because they were "all" $1000. And none of these people ever insinuated that these prices would go down--this was an inherent flaw to BD. Then the Sammy dropped to $599 on Amazon and the PS3 was released.

Then the Xbox 360 add-on would "neutralize" the PS3. It did not.

Then MS would announce an HD-DVD drive "built in" to neutralize the PS3. Then they denied that this was ever in the plans.

Then Triple Layer discs (which many recall were announced LAST year) were going to "neutralize the BD capacity advantage." But they never saw the light of day, and are STILL vaporware.

Then Blu-ray's were "vulnerable" to scratches, much moreso than HD-DVD, and they were inherently flawed for rental companies. But then people on here began to realise that it is HD-DVD that is much more vulnerable to scratches and Blu-ray discs were MUCH more reliable. A poll on here found only 3.7% of Blu-ray owners had a problem playing a rental while 25% of HD-DVD owners did. And guys like Gary and Fettastic, who were once hardcore HD-DVD fans who blasted Blu-ray every chance they got last summer, admitted that Blu-ray discs are much more reliable to own and much more resistant to scratches than HD-DVD's. And now these guys are Blu-ray fans! So that argument went away too.

Then the PS3 was released and the "poor sales" proved it would have no effect on Blu-ray. Then it went on to outsell the 360 comparatively at it's launch and now Blu-ray is clearly ahead in sales.

Since at this time of the PS3 launch the HD-DVD fan still had sales arguments on their side, then the arguments were that "studios would follow the money" so it isn't an idiotic decision to support a format that has only 3 major studios releasing content on it, because it was "just a matter of time" before studios would "see the light." Never happened. Still only 3 major studios releasing content on a format that is still basically just Toshiba and an optional video game console add-on, with still only one exclusive studio who seems uninterested in fully supporting the format with "100" mystery titles to be release sometime this year, 90% of which will be on combo! THAT is HD-DVD. And oh, about those sales arguments, well Blu-ray is now outselling HD-DVD so obviously we don't hear the "follow the money" slogan anymore. Notice that? The hope is now in cheap porn and Chinese junk players--and oh, in case you forgot, these players don't have any announced prices or release dates, just like the movies.

After the PS3 arguments the goalposts were switched to CES. CES was going to be big for HD-DVD with new studios going neutral for them and new big name CE companies coming on board. They knew they needed some major CE support and at least one studio going neutral, and this hope was so great that there were literally posters PROMISING people that at least one Blu-ray studio would go neutral at CES. Didn't happen. And as far as CE all they got was some junk names like Shinco not one of them has ever owned, and a bunch of "mystery movies" with no release dates. And oh, don't forget that giant lump of coal from Universal.

---

These arguments all turned out to be wrong. But at least they were somewhat interesting because we were all waiting with baited breath to see how the PS3 would effect sales and what would happen at CES.

And now that it has turned out that things are not better for HD-DVD now but FAR FAR WORSE, with all the problems they had before but now they have to contend with a better selling Blu-ray who has more movies coming out every week in February than HD-DVD has for the entire month, and you have a situation where there is no real reason to get into arguments anymore on here regarding a "war" because there is no war--we should all admit that, deep down, we all know that Blu-ray has won. It has won with capacity, bandwidth, scratch resistance and reliability for our archives, studios, player choices, more MOVIES, and now clearly BETTER SALES. There is no war anymore. And deep down we all know it and should move on and just get Universal to go neutral so we can come together and focus on the MOVIES.

It WAS fun while it lasted. There sure were some heated debates on here.

[Knight-Errant]

Well that about sums it up!

[Heresy]

Originally Posted by Knight-Errant

Well that about sums it up!

Which, of course, is why it was deleted.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by Heresy

Which, of course, is why it was deleted.

And why he was banned. Wow, that was a great opus indeed.

[dialog_gvf]

Who wrote it?

[JTK]

Originally Posted by dialog_gvf

Who wrote it?

YoYoNiner.

This gem needs to make its rounds.

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by JTK

YoYoNiner.

That got him banned?!!!

It's definitely provocative, but hardly to the level of an rdjam, mikemorel, or even our favorite MS VP.

Thank you Jazar for posting that.

Gary

[Esox50]

Originally Posted by dialog_gvf

That got him banned?!!!Gary

Like the Joker said in Batman (1989): "If you gotta go, go with a smile."

...and I'm sure YoYo had a big sh*t-eating grin on his face when he wrote that.

[mbslrm]

That was one helluva read.

[shug7272]

Was he previously a HD DVD fanboy or did he always like BD? If he was a HD DVD supporter then that is hillarious, if not... meh.

[Jack Torrance]

That is one stonkingly good post! This needs to be copied and posted everywhere!

The m$ fanboiz had their fun spreading lies and propoganda, now we should be spreading the facts and the truth!

[Petra]

Originally Posted by shug7272

Was he previously a HD DVD fanboy or did he always like BD? If he was a HD DVD supporter then that is hillarious, if not... meh.

he's one of the BD hardcore supporter. But can you dispute his arguments? you can't, it's written matter-factly.

What surprised me more, is poster named Fettastic. The change of his tone is too drastic to believe. He was in HD-DVD camp thru and thru, then overnight after CES, he changed his support for BD and just started bashing the hell out of HD-DVD.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by shug7272

Was he previously a HD DVD fanboy or did he always like BD? If he was a HD DVD supporter then that is hillarious, if not... meh.

He's been Blu since day one.

Yes Gary: This got him banned. I can't say I'm really surprised: It completely destroys any sembelance of a foundation for the continued racket on that forum

[Jack Torrance]

for ps3 and xbox-360 hd-dvd add on. That is where there has been a lot of lies and trash talk about blu-ray. Expecting a backlash, but what the heck... this post needs to be seen.

[mbslrm]

The thing I like about his article/post, is that it was written so professionally. No mistakes at all. The only thng that takes away from the professional feel from this, is teh mention of some of the other AVS members....

[JTK]

Originally Posted by Jack Torrance

for ps3 and xbox-360 hd-dvd add on. That is where there has been a lot of lies and trash talk about blu-ray. Expecting a backlash, but what the heck... this post needs to be seen.

^^

Originally Posted by mbslrm

The thing I like about his article/post, is that it was written so professionally. No mistakes at all. The only thng that takes away from the professional feel from this, is teh mention of some of the other AVS members....

Believe me: If you had seen the abuse that YoYo has endured...grant him that luxury.

[Jack Torrance]

yo-yo, if you see this and you're in los angeles, I'd like to buy you a beer or two. Great post

[Urian]

Translated to Cervantes language:

La guerra he terminado. El Blu-Ray ha ganado y profundamente lo sabemos todos.

El Blu-Ray esta aplastando al HD-DVD en ventas y películas y AUN tiene todo el soporte de la electrónica de consumo y de los estudios de cine del que ha gozado desde el principio. Se acabo, la guerra se acabo. El Blu-Ray gano y todo lo que tenemos que hacer es esperar a que el HD-DVD continué a morir. Y profundamente lo sabemos todos.

Tiene mucho sentido que los autollamados fans del Blu-Ray como yo no hagamos nada más aquí, el Blu-Ray esta ganando en absolutamente todo y no tiene signos de ir perdiendo el ritmo. Y esta ganando en todo lo que importa. Capacidad, ancho de banda, número de películas, número de estudios, número de reproductores a los que escoger, protecciones anticopia aun por implementar mientras que el HD-DVD esta estancado, la fiabilidad de los discos esta creciendo y al mismo tiempo se han vuelto más barato debido a no haber combos, y ahora el BluRay tiene un claro liderazgo en ventas Quiero decir ¿que es lo que nos queda? Hemos estado oyendo durante meses como "los estudios solo siguen el dinero", pero fijaros como ya no ois eso viniendo del otro bando.

Lo que es divertido es que si miras hacia atras, el HD-DVD camp ha estado equivocado justamente sobre todo. No hay nada que haya quedado para lo que podamos debatir, las discusiones se han vuelto tristes y nada interesantes, lo cual es el porque ya no hago posts nunca más. Se profundamente que estan riendose un poco en su interior cuando los argumentos se han vuelto en pornografía y reproductores de Shinco sin fecha de lanzamiento. Era divertido cuando nosotros no sabiamos que aguardaba el futuro cuando muchos de los argumentos estaban encendidos, ¿pero ahora como nos podemos tomar el HD-DVD seriosamente?

Es increible como el BD ha demostrado todos esos argumentos como equivocados.

Dejarme resumirlos:

Recordais cuando los BD-50 eran justamente ciencia ficcion y que nunca saldrian? Estaban intrínsecamente dañados a ser siempre caros y raros y "no necesarios" Porque el bando que discutia no tenia la capacidad. Entonces se hicieron más comunes.

Entonces el MPEG-2 y el BD-25 jamas podrian reproducir una gran calidad - estaba intrinsicamente dañado. Entonces fue cuando salio MI:III

Entonces los reproductores BD tenian todos "el doble de precio que el HD-DVD" debido a que estaban todos a $1000. Ni una sola de esas personas insinuaron alguna vez que los precios podrian bajar, esto era una defecto inherente del BD. Entonces Sammy bajo el precio de su reproductor a $599 y la PS3 fue lanzada.

Entonces el accesorio de Xbox 360 "neutralizaria" a la PS3. No lo hizo.

Entonces MS anunciaria un lector HD-DVD incluido en la consola para neutralizar a la PS3. Entonces ellos negaron que eso estuviera en los planes.

Entonces los discos de triple capa (de los cuales muchos recuerdan que fueron anunciados el año pasado) iban a neutralizar "la ventaja de capacidad del BD" pero aun no han visto la luz del dia, y AUN son vaporware.

Entonces los Blu-Ray eran "vulnerables" a rayaduras, mucho más que el HD-DVD, y estaban inherentemente defectuosos para las compañias de alquilerPero entonces la gente de aqui empezo a darse cuenta que el HD-DVD son mucho más vulnerables a las rayaduras y los discos BluRay eran mucho más fiables. Una encuesta decia que que solo el 3.7% de los propietarios de Blu-Ray tenian problemas para reproducir una pelicula alquilada mientras que el 25% de los propietarios de HD-DVD tuvieron el mismo problema.
Y chicos como Gary y Fettastic, quien en su dia eran fanaticos acerrimos del HD-DVD quienes arruinaban al Blu-Ray a cada oportunidad que querian el ultimo mes, admitieron que el Blu-Ray es más fiable de poseer y mucho más resistente a las rayaduras que los HD-DVD. ¡Y ahora esos chicos son fans del Blu-Ray! Asi que esta discusión también se fue lejos.

Entonces la PS3 fue lanzada y las "pobres ventas" probaron que no tendrian efecto en el Blu-Ray. Entonces vendio más que 360 en el lanzamiento y ahora el Blu-Ray esta claramente adelante en ventas.

Desde que se lanzo PS3 los fans del HD-DVD aun tenian argumentos de ventas a su favor, entonces los argumentos eran que los "estudios podrian seguir el dinero" asi que no es una decisión idiota lanzar soporte a un formato que solo tiene 3 estudios importante lanzando contenido para este. Debido a que solo que era "questión de tiempo" antes de que los estudios "vieran la luz". Nunca paso. Aun unicamente tenemos 3 estudios lanzando contenido en un formato que basicamente es Toshiba y un accesorio para una consola de videojuegos, el cual solo tiene un estudio en exclusiva que parece desinteresado en continuar dandole soporte al formato con 100 titulos que nadie sabe cuales seran, ¡90% HD-DVD+DVD en un solo disco! ¡Esto es el HD-DVD! Y ah, sobre todo esos argumentos de ventas ya no oimos el "seguir el dinero", ¿lo habeis notado? La esperanza esta ahora en porno barato y reproductores chinos de chatarra. Y oh, en el caso de que lo hayais olvidado esos reproductores no tienen ni fecha de lanzamiento ni precios anunciados, justo como las peliculas.

Después de que las discusiones sobre PS3 la porteria se cambio al CES. El CES iba a ser grande para el HD-DVD con nuevos estudios pasandose al bando neutral para ellos y más compañias importante de la electronica de consumo sumandose a ellos. Ellos sabian que necesitaban un mayor apoyo de la electronica de consumo y al menos un estudio haciendose neutral, y esa esperanzaera tan grande que empezaron a prometer-le a la gente que al menos un estudio exclusivo del Blu-Ray se haria neutral en el CES. No paso. Y lo maximo que hemos obtenido son algunos nombres de chatarra como Shinco que nadie sabe ni de donde vienen, y un monton de "peliculas misteriosas". Ah, no olvideis el enorme saco de carbon desde Universal.
---

Esas discusiones demostraron estar equivocadas. Pero al menos fueron algo interesantes debido a que estabamos esperando como afectaria PS3 a la ventas y lo que pasaria en el CES.

Y ahora que las cosas no se han vuelto mejores para el HD-DVD sino mucho, muchisimo peores, con todos los problemas que ellos tenian antes ahora tienen que luchar contra un Blu-Ray que vende más, quien tiene más películas en una semana que el HD-DVD en un mes entero, y no hay una situación donde haya una sola razón por la que discutir como si hubiera una guerra debido a que no hay niunguna guerra, nosotros deberiamos admitir eso. profundamente, todos sabemos que el Blu-Ray ha ganado. Ha ganado por capacidad, ancho de banda, resistencia a las rayaduras, a la fiabilidad para nuestros archivos, los estudios de cine, la mayor elección de reproductores, más PELICULAS y ahora claramente MEJORES VENTAS. Aqui no hay ninguna guerra, Y todos nosotros deberiamos movernos para hacer neutral a Universal y centrarnos en lo que realmente nos importa, las PELICULAS.

Fue divertido mientras duro. Tener seguro que tuvimos algunos debates acalorados aqui.

[Deane Johnson]

Anybody registered at the HD-DVD forum. Wonder how they'd react if it showed up there.

[Jack Torrance]

It should be posted over at the hd-dud forum - be interesting to see the fallout from it.