Sony: Raised R&D Costs Related to PS4 Launch

[Icemage]

Originally Posted by cheaitsjustin

Unless Cafe has it!

Doubtful. Nintendo has a history of trying to protect against piracy by using formats that aren't easily replicated (see: cartridges, tiny Gamecube mini-discs, not-quite-DVD Wii discs). I highly doubt they'd change their tune and use Blu-ray; but of course that begs the question of what format they will distribute their games on.

IMO, PS4 shouldn't even be announced until E3 2012, with a release in Q4 2013 (at the EARLIEST!). Leave it to Sony's competition to speed things up when they don't need to be. I'm looking at you, again, Nintendo.

Sounds about right. As for Nintendo, they don't have much choice. The Wii is quickly losing ground to the Xbox 360 and the PS3 in terms of software support, and their relationship with 3rd parties are at an all-time low. If they don't launch something more successful soon, no one will give them the time of day in another year.

[slick1ru2]

I see Nintendo as catching up to the PS3, not leaping over it.

This is what football players look like in Madden on the Wii. Its just a different class.

[RaijinUT]

Originally Posted by slick1ru2

I see Nintendo as catching up to the PS3, not leaping over it.

This is what football players look like in Madden on the Wii. Its just a different class.

We need to see what the Cafe offers. The streaming options to Ipad like controller could be huge. You put that availability via the the internet and you have a game changer... just imaging it... You take your controller with you and play whatever you want where ever. Not saying that Nintendo is doing this, but if they did... it would be huge.

[slick1ru2]

Originally Posted by RaijinUT

We need to see what the Cafe offers. The streaming options to Ipad like controller could be huge. You put that availability via the the internet and you have a game changer... just imaging it... You take your controller with you and play whatever you want where ever. Not saying that Nintendo is doing this, but if they did... it would be huge.

Which is probably why Sony recently announced many PSP games are being remade for PS3 compatibility so you can go back and forth with playing the game between the two platforms, right where you left off. Combine that with the possibility of more games offering a free copy on Steam like Portal 2 did and its pretty good competition to the Cafe.

[RaijinUT]

Originally Posted by slick1ru2

Which is probably why Sony recently announced many PSP games are being remade for PS3 compatibility so you can go back and forth with playing the game between the two platforms, right where you left off. Combine that with the possibility of more games offering a free copy on Steam like Portal 2 did and its pretty good competition to the Cafe.

I think one of Sony's biggest failures was not letting you play PSP games on your PS3. It wouldn't have been that hard to add an emulator to do that.

And we can always hope that Sony NGP has some sort of streaming option with their remote play. I wouldn't be that hard for them to do it and it would be a very welcome addition and would move units.

Oh well, here is to hope.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by slick1ru2

Of course there is going to be product overlap. But what he says means don't hope for the PS4 in the next year or two. They just started making money on the PS3 after losing $4 billion on it. And they will most likely put out a PS4 that will lose money for awhile to keep it in a competitive price point. The PS4 is going to have decade life cycle, so they are going to put as much new state of the art technology in it as possible initially which is expensive initially.

The PS2 came out Oct 2000 in NA, the PS3 Nov 2006. But the PS2 is still being sold and we are 2011.

If he is talking about the whole lifespan of PS3 then it can be 1/2 way through just like 2006 can be thought of as roughly around 1/2 way through the PS2 life span. But that would not tell us much about when the PS4 comes out because, so far, Sony has never stopped the old platform when the new one comes out. The PS3 overlaps roughly 1/2 the PS2s life span and possibly the PS4 can overlap 1/2 the PS3s lifespan.


As for hope, think about it. If he says the PS4 will come out next year or in two years, maybe even 3 years, that could hurt sales today and until then from people thinking (and acting on)
1)" why get the PS3 it is at the end of its life, might as well wait and get the PS4"
2)"if I wait for the PS4 maybe the price of the PS3 will drop, I waited this long what does a few more months matter"

so until the PS4 is close to launch and so they want to start the hype or one of the other game makers forces it, any discussion will always make it appear that it is far away.

[slick1ru2]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

The PS2 came out Oct 2000 in NA, the PS3 Nov 2006. But the PS2 is still being sold and we are 2011.

If he is talking about the whole lifespan of PS3 then it can be 1/2 way through just like 2006 can be thought of as roughly around 1/2 way through the PS2 life span. But that would not tell us much about when the PS4 comes out because, so far, Sony has never stopped the old platform when the new one comes out. The PS3 overlaps roughly 1/2 the PS2s life span and possibly the PS4 can overlap 1/2 the PS3s lifespan.


As for hope, think about it. If he says the PS4 will come out next year or in two years, maybe even 3 years, that could hurt sales today and until then from people thinking (and acting on)
1)" why get the PS3 it is at the end of its life, might as well wait and get the PS4"
2)"if I wait for the PS4 maybe the price of the PS3 will drop, I waited this long what does a few more months matter"

so until the PS4 is close to launch and so they want to start the hype or one of the other game makers forces it, any discussion will always make it appear that it is far away.

The PS4 is way off. No developer has even heard of any specs to even start to think about making a game They don't even have a format. The PS3 controller was shown way before the console came out. Sony was talking about it for a long time. There are big leaps between the first three consoles technology and display wise. There hasn't been that much of a leap yet to have a console come out now that would just be a PS3 with better specs in HD, RAM, etc.. They could call that the PS3 plus. They need more then that to get people to switch.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by slick1ru2

Because Microsoft repeatedly says that Blu-ray is not going in their consoles. Google it.

no they said the 360 won't have BD. What else will the 720 have if not BD, it is already hampered with any quality games needing more then one DVD.

Correction, Matshusita aka Panasonic invented DVD. Several companies including Sony came in and supported the format, just like there was a supporting manufacturer lineup for HD DVD vs Blu-ray.

no. Sony/Philips was working on MMCD and Toshiba,WB, Panasonic (and a few others) on SDD. After pressure from IBM and other tech companies DVD was created with the combination of the best characteristics of each format but mostly based on SDD. If you go by patents and royalties then Toshiba is #1 in that group and they came up with the .6mm depth and that is why they forced it on HD DVD (i.e. continue getting royalties for that patent)

As for BD the major patent holder is Panasonic and not Sony. So I don't see what it has anything to do with the discussion. Even if Sony was the major patent owner, the BDA is the owner of the format and Sony would have no say in what happens.

[slick1ru2]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

no they said the 360 won't have BD. What else will the 720 have if not BD, it is already hampered with any quality games needing more then one DVD.




no. Sony/Philips was working on MMCD and Toshiba,WB, Panasonic (and a few others) on SDD. After pressure from IBM and other tech companies DVD was created with the combination of the best characteristics of each format but mostly based on SDD. If you go by patents and royalties then Toshiba is #1 in that group and they came up with the .6mm depth and that is why they forced it on HD DVD (i.e. continue getting royalties for that patent)

As for BD the major patent holder is Panasonic and not Sony. So I don't see what it has anything to do with the discussion. Even if Sony was the major patent owner, the BDA is the owner of the format and Sony would have no say in what happens.

Microsoft thinks Blu-ray is a dying technology. They have said that, it goes beyond not putting it in the XBOX, way beyond. They think streaming is the future.

The key to DVD is that Sony did not invent it, that was the claim, no matter who did, it wasn't Sony. I originally put Toshiba, btw. While the HD DVD Blu-ray war was going, it was one of their claims as to why choose the HD DVD.

http://gizmodo.com/5645716/microsoft...by-as-a-format

Microsoft: "Blu-ray is Going To Be Passed By As a Format"

Need further proof Microsoft will never adopt Blu-ray, as you clutch your HD DVD drive to your chest and sob for Microsoft's halcyon HD format days? Xbox 360's UK director Stephen McGill has reiterated the future is digital downloads.

McGill told Xbox Achievements that "people have moved through from DVDs to digital downloads and digital streaming, so we offer full HD 1080p Blu-ray quality streaming instantly, no download, no delay," referring to the Zune service.

Instead of launching an Xbox 360 with integrated Blu-ray drive, "people now recognize what a smart decision it was to keep the [Xbox 360] pricing low."

Fair enough that Microsoft will never put its name to a Blu-ray drive-equipped product, but what about those add-ons Ballmer promised were coming last year? [Xbox Achievements via Thinq]

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by slick1ru2

The PS4 is way off. No developer has even heard of any specs to even start to think about making a game They don't even have a format.

how do you know that?

The PS3 controller was shown way before the console came out. Sony was talking about it for a long time.

no, until some time in 2006 the one that was shown was the boomarang controller

They could call that the PS3 plus. They need more then that to get people to switch.

and the Wiii was a gamecube with a gimmick and the 360 was and xbox 1.5 what is your point. Everything gets defined by its predecessors and competition. If more memory, more powerful CPU with more SPEs, better graphics card…. Does the job and it compares to the Wii 2 and 720, who cares if it is a plus, isn’t every console just a plus?

[slick1ru2]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

how do you know that?


no, until some time in 2006 the one that was shown was the boomarang controller



and the Wiii was a gamecube with a gimmick and the 360 was and xbox 1.5 what is your point. Everything gets defined by its predecessors and competition. If more memory, more powerful CPU with more SPEs, better graphics card…. Does the job and it compares to the Wii 2 and 720, who cares if it is a plus, isn’t every console just a plus?

I read developer blogs and recently one said they have heard nothing on the PS4 from Sony and they would if a console is close or even a year away because of all involved with development for a new console. What is your point Anthony? The PS4 is coming next year and the next XBOX will have Blu-ray? The boomarang controller was shown a year and a half before the PS3 was launched. It was shown at E3 2005, in May. The PS3 was launched the end of 2006.

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/614/614736p1.html

E3 2005: PlayStation 3 - The Controller
First shots of the PlayStation 3 controller. Not another Dual Shock clone!
May 16, 2005
by Mark Ryan Sallee

Along with the dramatic reveal of Sony's new PlayStation 3 hardware, Sony displayed the new controller design that'll accompany the upcoming hardware. Surprise! It's not another update to the PSOne Dual Shock.

The new controller sports a boomerang-style design and looks to include all of the same buttons as the Dual Shock and Dual Shock2 (no added ones, either). Also, in the pictures of the controller that we have now there is no cord to be seen, leading us to believe that the system will launch with wireless controllers.

Keep checking IGN PS3 for more details on the PS3, its controllers, its games, its mom, and everything else that breaks here at E3 2005.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by slick1ru2

Microsoft thinks Blu-ray is a dying technology. They have said that, it goes beyond not putting it in the XBOX, way beyond. They think streaming is the future.

The key to DVD is that Sony did not invent it, that was the claim, no matter who did, it wasn't Sony. I originally put Toshiba, btw. While the HD DVD Blu-ray war was going, it was one of their claims as to why choose the HD DVD.

http://gizmodo.com/5645716/microsoft...by-as-a-format

Microsoft: "Blu-ray is Going To Be Passed By As a Format"

Need further proof Microsoft will never adopt Blu-ray, as you clutch your HD DVD drive to your chest and sob for Microsoft's halcyon HD format days? Xbox 360's UK director Stephen McGill has reiterated the future is digital downloads.

McGill told Xbox Achievements that "people have moved through from DVDs to digital downloads and digital streaming, so we offer full HD 1080p Blu-ray quality streaming instantly, no download, no delay," referring to the Zune service.

Instead of launching an Xbox 360 with integrated Blu-ray drive, "people now recognize what a smart decision it was to keep the [Xbox 360] pricing low."

Fair enough that Microsoft will never put its name to a Blu-ray drive-equipped product, but what about those add-ons Ballmer promised were coming last year? [Xbox Achievements via Thinq]

but MS is nopt run by complete morons.

Yes some stupid people think streaming and can't get their head out of their a$$ long enough to think. But the reality is that if a console was made that had only streaming it will be a complete failure.

http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats.htm only 30% of the world has internet
and 27.1% of US citizens have access to broadband http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/21/35/39574709.xls
and broadband is defined as 256kbps+

and then there is the simple fact that just because someone has broadband does not mean they “have” broadband where they want to play. Many people I know have a second place be it a cottages, chalets, summer homes, condos in the south, homes in other countries…. and very few have broadband there. And if they are forced to get a certain consol for that place because one of them does not have disks and so it is impossible to use at the cottage, then what do you think they will automatically get for home where they do have the choice?

As for the quote what do you want MS to have said we screwe the pouch only morons would buy our 360s now because BD is the future. Obviously they would downplay BD, the 360 did not have it and could not add it for gaming and the PS3 did.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by slick1ru2

I read developer blogs and recently one said they have heard nothing on the PS4 from Sony and they would if a console is close or even a year away because of all involved with development for a new console. What is your point Anthony? The PS4 is coming next year and the next XBOX will have Blu-ray? The boomarang controller was shown a year and a half before the PS3 was launched. It was shown at E3 2005, in May. The PS3 was launched the end of 2006.

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/614/614736p1.html

E3 2005: PlayStation 3 - The Controller
First shots of the PlayStation 3 controller. Not another Dual Shock clone!
May 16, 2005
by Mark Ryan Sallee

Along with the dramatic reveal of Sony's new PlayStation 3 hardware, Sony displayed the new controller design that'll accompany the upcoming hardware. Surprise! It's not another update to the PSOne Dual Shock.

The new controller sports a boomerang-style design and looks to include all of the same buttons as the Dual Shock and Dual Shock2 (no added ones, either). Also, in the pictures of the controller that we have now there is no cord to be seen, leading us to believe that the system will launch with wireless controllers.

Keep checking IGN PS3 for more details on the PS3, its controllers, its games, its mom, and everything else that breaks here at E3 2005.

anyone that knows anything would have signed an NDA. Obviously they would say I don't know anything. As for the controller, I know but that is my point. It was a red herring, do you play with a boomerang controller on your PS3? no that was not Sony's real controller. And the reason Sony was coming out with PS3 info (some real and some not) in 2005 was that the 360 came out in 2005 and Sony could not leave MS get all the spotlight. Will we have info of the PS4 a year in advance? Yes, I believe so, but a year in advance means that it could come out at the end of 2012 (my guess is still 2013 but who knows)


But my point is that no one can get any info from the article you linked at since the guy gave 0 info about the PS4 timetable

[MerrickG]

Originally Posted by slick1ru2

Fair enough that Microsoft will never put its name to a Blu-ray drive-equipped product, but what about those add-ons Ballmer promised were coming last year? [Xbox Achievements via Thinq]

This is a VERY ignorant statement on your part. The 720 will feature a bluray drive at minimum. DVD just doesn't cut it anymore and they aren't going to start dealing with 3 disc sets at minimum.

I was of the school of thought that they may just go ahead and resurrect the HD-DVD disc format and use it as the disc for the 720, but no I have been told by people in the know that this will not happen.

Disc media is here for at least another console generation and bluray is really their only option.

[slick1ru2]

Originally Posted by merrick97

This is a VERY ignorant statement on your part. The 720 will feature a bluray drive at minimum. DVD just doesn't cut it anymore and they aren't going to start dealing with 3 disc sets at minimum.

I was of the school of thought that they may just go ahead and resurrect the HD-DVD disc format and use it as the disc for the 720, but no I have been told by people in the know that this will not happen.

Disc media is here for at least another console generation and bluray is really their only option.

On MY part? Dude, its MICROSOFT that's saying it. Its pretty obvious they they are making a new disc system, they just launched one with the newest XBOX update. Its pretty ignorant to not know anything about what you are talking about and not do some easy research before you jump on someone.

http://www.tuaw.com/2010/09/22/micro...ainst-blu-ray/

Microsoft joins Apple in stance against Blu-ray
by Mike Schramm (RSS feed) on Sep 22nd 2010 at 8:00PM

Apple has a surprising ally in its campaign of apathy against Sony's Blu-ray disc format. Microsoft, of all companies, has also stepped out with a passive-aggressive stance against the standard, as UK head of Xbox gaming head Steven McGill says that "Blu-ray is going to be passed by as a format." He says that Microsoft was right to stick with the older DVD format for its game consoles, and that with the rise of streaming content and the infrastructure to deliver it, there's no longer a need for a disc-based format.

Apple would probably agree, given the recent introduction of the Apple TV and its streaming content possibilities. Apple and Jobs alike have never been interested in Blu-ray as a format -- originally, the reason given was that they just wanted to see whether HD-DVD or Blu-ray would become the preferred standard, but at this point, with iTunes moving more and more away from physical media entirely, it seems unlikely that Apple will court Sony and its proprietary format at all. So on this issue, at least, Apple and Microsoft appear to have found some common ground.

Spring Dashboard Update Launches Today for Xbox 360

Microsoft has launched the Spring Update for the Xbox 360 today. The new update supports a new disc format for the Xbox 360 called XGD3 which is said to give extra space to developers, as well as fight the battle on piracy. The update will also incorporate PayPal support into the Xbox Live payment option. This means that U.S. and International Xbox Live users will now have the option to make their purchases with the online payment processor. There's also a new auto-standby feature for the console. The new standby mode will place the console into standby if it remains idle for more than an hour, and should reduce power consumption of the system.

The update is scheduled to be released in phases between today May 19th with the full roll-out being completed by May 30th. As with every other update, you'll know when required to update by prompt when logging into Xbox Live.

Originally Posted by Anthony P

anyone that knows anything would have signed an NDA. Obviously they would say I don't know anything. As for the controller, I know but that is my point. It was a red herring, do you play with a boomerang controller on your PS3? no that was not Sony's real controller. And the reason Sony was coming out with PS3 info (some real and some not) in 2005 was that the 360 came out in 2005 and Sony could not leave MS get all the spotlight. Will we have info of the PS4 a year in advance? Yes, I believe so, but a year in advance means that it could come out at the end of 2012 (my guess is still 2013 but who knows)


But my point is that no one can get any info from the article you linked at since the guy gave 0 info about the PS4 timetable

I was pointing out that the PS3 was given a year and and a half notice, shown at E3. There is no notice about the PS4 because its not coming out for years. And where is your source on the NDA? Love to see it.

Originally Posted by Anthony P

but MS is nopt run by complete morons.

Yes some stupid people think streaming and can't get their head out of their a$$ long enough to think. But the reality is that if a console was made that had only streaming it will be a complete failure.

http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats.htm only 30% of the world has internet
and 27.1% of US citizens have access to broadband http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/21/35/39574709.xls
and broadband is defined as 256kbps+

and then there is the simple fact that just because someone has broadband does not mean they “have” broadband where they want to play. Many people I know have a second place be it a cottages, chalets, summer homes, condos in the south, homes in other countries…. and very few have broadband there. And if they are forced to get a certain consol for that place because one of them does not have disks and so it is impossible to use at the cottage, then what do you think they will automatically get for home where they do have the choice?

As for the quote what do you want MS to have said we screwe the pouch only morons would buy our 360s now because BD is the future. Obviously they would downplay BD, the 360 did not have it and could not add it for gaming and the PS3 did.

The future is streaming. This is a gaming console. Did you miss the uproar when the PSN went down??? Have you missed all the threads about people wanting the store to open to DL games? Plus Microsoft will develop their own disc, like the one they just introduced. Microsoft has updated the XBOX several times and has had the chance to go to Blu-ray, but hasn't and won't, its not their business model.

[slick1ru2]

We are conducting an open call for US based participants* for a public preview to help us prepare for an updated Xbox 360 disc format.

http://majornelson.com/2011/03/29/xb...pdate-preview/

[binarymelon]

Originally Posted by slick1ru2

We are conducting an open call for US based participants* for a public preview to help us prepare for an updated Xbox 360 disc format.

http://majornelson.com/2011/03/29/xb...pdate-preview/

It's just a new image format on the same media isn't it? As people mentioned before there is very little chance MS launches their next console with only DVD based physical media.

[slick1ru2]

Originally Posted by binarymelon

It's just a new image format on the same media isn't it? As people mentioned before there is very little chance MS launches their next console with only DVD based physical media.

Right, they will most likely come up with another. This new one is triple layered and geared toward anti-piracy. Obviously limited in what they can do now with the current console.

[binarymelon]

Originally Posted by slick1ru2

Right, they will most likely come up with another. This new one is triple layered and geared toward anti-piracy. Obviously limited in what they can do now with the current console.

If they even remotely believe digital downloads is the future, why would they spend time and money doing R&D for a new physical format? They will resurrect HDDVD or use Blu-ray.

[slick1ru2]

Originally Posted by binarymelon

If they even remotely believe digital downloads is the future, why would they spend time and money doing R&D for a new physical format? They will resurrect HDDVD or use Blu-ray.

Probably because they don't have to pay licensing fees and think they can make a better format to stop piracy. Complexity of licensing is a reason Apple cites for not using Blu-ray. I've read speculation of a new hologram technology and also their teaming up with Samsung for a 12TB disc technology.