Feel sorry for the HD-DVD innocent guy

[damegenkler]

hi,

I enjoy reading all blu-ray info here and I never think I will post anything here since you guys know better than me.

However, I just can't keep my mouth shut today.

I saw a guy at Fry's Electronic and he tried to make a decision on blu-ray player or HD-DVD player while a sale guy recommend him HD-DVD player. That's ok. It 's free country and he can make his own choice.

However, he did mention he liked to get "Casino Royale". The sales guy not only inform him that it is gonna to be on blu-ray only but also telling him it will a good HD movie on HD-DVD.

Then this guy asked about "Rocky Balboa" again while the sales guy was still telling him HD-DVD was the right choice.

(Sorry, I jumped in and told this guy blu-ray was the right choice if he wanted get those 2 movies while HD-DVD was only supported by a is-going-to change Universal studio in front of the sales guy. )

Man! There was so many innocent people here making wrong choices because of those not-knowledgeable-enough sales guy.

Hope this HD Media War end soon so no more innocent people get hurt

[d0uble0se7en]

Wow. You really are a hero. No sarcasm. What would we do without citizens like you? Seriously, people need to appreciate the heroes in all of us.

I remember one time at target I dashed to save a poor woman from Fullscreen. This was back when no one really knew the difference. Unfortunately it was too late for her....I couldn't save her. But I tried! I really really tried!

[DTMoney84]

Yea it sucks that people are being misinformed by salespeople but I surely cannot feel sorry for them. If they are going to invest that kind of money on something they are not really sure about all they have to do is take 20-30 minutes searching the internet to at least get a basic idea of the facts on the two sides. I mean it just took me a few minutes of google time to get most of the facts before I decided on Blu-ray. I just dont understand people who dont do a little research of their own before plunking down that kind of money.

[DTMoney84]

Thank goodness thought there are loyal Blu-ray supporters that help these less knowledgable citizens keeping them from making the drastic mistake of Highly Dumb-DVD.

[Blue]

You have raised a few things.

What you witnessed is alas all too common. I have seen sales people here in Aus advise prospective purchaser's to go HD-DVD even though availability here of HD-DVD is almost non existent and the store they work for only sells Blu-ray. I have no problems anyone buying HD-DVD or Blu-ray so long as they are given the facts. It really comes down to buyer be ware.

Everyone is WELCOME to make posts. There are plenty of threads that invite opinions, there are also plenty of questions left to ask, however do a quick search to see if it has already been asked. Also be aware some old threads had the correct information for the time, but things have since changed.

[blitz6speed]

Was this at the Anaheim Frys? There is one overweight guy working there who must be amirs brother, he never shuts up about hd-dvd. Everyone else working there doesnt care either way tho.

[BaronVonFlapJack]

I really need to know, without touting the same bull crap that you hear from Sony, what is so superior about Blu-Ray over HD DVD? I am honestly asking for a smart honest answer why the FORMAT is superior.

Here are the points that kept popping up in the past:

1. Superior Picture Quality.
The reality is that in its first year Blu-Ray titles were plagued with PQ issues and from most of the reviews I read, and believe me I have read alot, when the same title was put side by side, HD DVD got the better review. This I see is an issue that wont matter in time as Sony figures out there shit, Im sure they both look equally amazing.

2. Storage Space: Can we stop using this already? Blu-Ray has yet to release a title that utilized the 50gb of space. HD DVD has already announced there 51gb disk (the extra gb for bragging rights Im sure). Again, in time, PQ and storage will be the same, give or take.

Currently HD is half the price of BluRay, for almost a year now. Why would I want to go to Blu Ray at twice the price?

Studio Support: Naturally in the end, the titles will make a big difference, but why did the studios support Blu Ray over HD in the first place? Was it because of the big promises that Sony made that they were not able to deliver in their first year. No retarded answers like "cuz HD iz dum and fer fagz" please. Both formats have excellent titles, but Im trying to gather why you are so passionate about Blu Ray?

I jumped into the game with the XBox HD DVD add on and was blown away and impressed as hell. Since I dont feel like waiting for years for this thing to settle, I will be going dual format soon so I will be able to enjoy both formats titles.

The Baron

[BluFive]

Hey Baron,
I went throught the same thing afew months back.I ultimatly went with Bluray for afew reasons.First I have never had any problems with my sony products,ive had 4 tvs that still work today and 2 dvd players which are awesome and never skip.I know people do have probs but I also went because the specs,BR is superior,its that easy,I did the research and even though HD DVD is great,BR is a different format where HD DVD is DvD taken to the next level.Plus the deal braker was studio support.Im not replacing my 1,400 dvds with Blurays.Not gonna happen.But most of the movies I want are now BR only.Look at the upcoming blockbusters.Ghost rider=BR only,300=Both formats.Spidey 3=BR only,Night at the museum=BR only.Casino Royal=BR only,Pirates 3=BR only.
It all comes down to which movies you want more.Even future releases like Star Wars=BR only.Plus every studio except Universal&Weinstein supports BluRay.The same answers keep poping up becuase THAT IS THE REASON WE SUPPORT BluRay,its like asking someone why there favorite Baseball team IS there favorite baseball team,your gonna get the same answers everytime.

[BaronVonFlapJack]

Its not like asking you what your favorite baseball team is. Technology is quite different than liking your home team, or whatever team. I like Apple computer for a whole slew of reasons over a PC (operating system, ease of use, design, easy to fix, no viruses!). I like a certain car over another for certain reasons. Like I said, I have asked an HD guy why and he will give me very specific, and very good, reasons why he chose HD DVD.

You didnt really give a clear reason, other than stating it is superior, its that simple. How is it more superior? Are you telling me that Blu Ray disc looks that much better than an HD DVD? I have seen both, and they are, in my opinion, equally impressive. They both look great. I'm trying to get an idea, aside from studio support, why you prefer BR over HDDVD.

I'm going dual format right now, but I have yet to hear someone give me a convincing reason why Blu Ray is better. Before jumping in, as an outsider, HD DVD seemed the logical choice. Cheaper to get into, cheaper for studios to make, seemed like it would emerge the eventual victor. But I dont think anyone can lay claim to that because of a couple months good sales, or a whole year of good sales.

For anyone to pronounce anything is "over" is just prematurely ejaculating. This market is so small right now, nobody is really losing money by not releasing on one format.
As for Star Wars being on Blu Ray, remember how long it was till Star Wars was available on DVD? It was one of the last hold outs. As tides shift, and they might, last year hd dvd kicked blu rays ass and this year blu ray is kicking hd dvd's ass, studio support might waver in either direction or they will go neutral, or whatever, who knows? All I know is Im waving the white flag now and going duel to enjoy the best of both worlds.

The Baron

[BluFive]

Well go to google "or your favorite search engine" and do the research yourself=BluRay vs HD DVD specs.You seem to be looking for an answer that doesnt exist when it comes to why you should choose one over the other.
Bottom line there both amazing formats and have one up's over the other in certain aspects,but if you cant except the same answers to the same questions youve been reading about then DONT ASK.
Bluray=MORE STUDIO SUPPORT.Thats what it comes down to.BR&HD DVD prices are close to the same "from what ive seen at best buy,target,online etc" so that why people like me support BR.

[HDJK]

Originally Posted by BaronVonFlapJack

Its not like asking you what your favorite baseball team is. Technology is quite different than liking your home team, or whatever team. <_> Like I said, I have asked an HD guy why and he will give me very specific, and very good, reasons why he chose HD DVD.

You didnt really give a clear reason, other than stating it is superior, its that simple. How is it more superior? Are you telling me that Blu Ray disc looks that much better than an HD DVD?

You say technology is different than liking your baseball team. Well then, Google is your friend. Check out the technological superiority of blu-ray over HD-DVD (Higher bandwith, more storage space available now and compatible with players already bought, as oppose to 'maybe we have 51 gig HD-DVD that forces us to buy yet another player', until now better audio, hard coating for durability...). Without any personal attachments, just going by the facts, it is clear that blu-ray is superior. Period. Price is always brought up, but I'd rather pay a little more for a PS3 that lasts a couple of years, than buy a Toshiba that can't even output 1080P and then buay another one with good up-scaling, and then buy another one capable of 51gig discs. If your really interested in technology, do some research and get enlightened

[Blue]

1. Video Quality - I agree that vidoe quality was initially poor on Blu-ray but has now sorted that out although the specifications are very close the bit rate is variable once a movie goes over about 110 min (many movies are over 110 min) HD-DVD has got too slow the bit rate down to fit it on - the longer the lower the bit rate, I like movies like Lawrence of Arabia, 2001 etc etc It's obvious that even Toshiba thinks so - see point 2
2. Capacity for computer use. 50GB is a bit on the low side, but at least is a great deal more than 30GB. It's a little dishonest to start quoting 51GB for HD-DVD that I don't think has been seen outside a Lab Vs 200GB that WAS demonstrated at the CES on Blu-ray. Toshiba announced only a few days ago they have not yet even put up the proposal to the DVD forum - how long until it reaches reality? What impact will this have on existing players (unless you are in the know in Toshiba - you can't say it will be backwardly compatible. It maybe it may not). At least with 200GB if not backward compatible is not a problem as the movies fit onto 50GB at least Toshiba seems to think so.
3. There was a document leaked before this war took off, Toshiba was trying to justify the release of an inferior format that can could be superseded very quickly so companies could resell eveything again although that was the excuse I think it was to try and hold onto as many licensing fees as possible (just like I'm sure the Blu-ray group were not going to Blu-ray for the benefit of the consumer), but I would prefer not to have to keep updating my movie collection every 6 years. Hopefully someone else here will have a reference to that document (sometime in 2004).
4. Industry support - which one is most likely to win alas history has shown only one will survive.

As for prices I really can't comment about the US prices but last time I checked the PS3 plays blu-rays very well and at 1080p! In Aus if you compare Apples with Apples both Toshiba is the same price as the Samsung, although in reality I don't know what the Toshiba is being sold for as I can't find anyone that is selling them (and it's not through lack of trying)-notice I didn't say in stock as I would expect availability tight to start with. The PS3 in Aus is cheaper than the feature challenged "cheap" Toshiba. I don't see the price of 1st or 2nd Gen player as an issue as they are going to be replaced by a 3rd or 4th Generation player, thsi is not where the cost to anyone collecting movies is, it's the movie collection. To have 70 movies (I'm sure there a re may people out there with coolections of 70 or more) become useless @ $25 each is much more than even the most expensive Blu-ray player.

If you are prepared to spend money on both formats being aware that one will disappear that's fine. I don't want shelf of unplayable and most probably unsellable movies in a few years. I have few laser disc's, however the player has broken down therefore they are unplayable. "Universal" (I prefer the term multi) players may or may not be around in a few years

[dvda-sacd]

Originally Posted by BaronVonFlapJack

what is so superior about Blu-Ray over HD DVD?

Linear PCM 5.1 192-kHz/24-bit.

Cheers!

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by d0uble0se7en

Wow. You really are a hero. No sarcasm. What would we do without citizens like you? Seriously, people need to appreciate the heroes in all of us.

I remember one time at target I dashed to save a poor woman from Fullscreen. This was back when no one really knew the difference. Unfortunately it was too late for her....I couldn't save her. But I tried! I really really tried!

Ha ha - I saved an older couple at Blockbuster successfully not too long ago with their younger teenage grandson. He was saying they could stretch it to fill the screen if they went with widescreen and I again had to correct all three of them and explain that people would look funny if you did that. Sometimes people can't grasp that a smaller picture on the screen has more of the movie.

I always ask them to remember the last time they were at the movies. Did it look like a square or like a rectangle?

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by BaronVonFlapJack

I'm going dual format right now, but I have yet to hear someone give me a convincing reason why Blu Ray is better.

You're probably just not listening as the reasons are numerous.

More bandwidth, more capacity, more manufacturer support, more studio support, more PC drive support, more blank media support, more titles, more current box office movies.

Repeat ad naseum.

[Scorxpion]

Hey the one asking why Blu-ray is better than HD_DVD go now to Hometheaterspot and click review on casino royale describing in the review itself from technical view why blu-ray is better

[ra1024]

Originally Posted by BaronVonFlapJack

Blu-Ray has yet to release a title that utilized the 50gb of space.

Pirates will be a 2 disc set so it will use 50G plus some.

Originally Posted by BaronVonFlapJack

Storage Space: Can we stop using this already? .... HD DVD has already announced there 51gb disk (the extra gb for bragging rights Im sure). Again, in time, PQ and storage will be the same, give or take.

You can't ignore disc capacity because it's the per/layer number you need to remember. If toshiba makes a 3 layer disc at 51G, BR will do a 3 layer at 75. Untill their per/layer capacity matches BR, they will always be lower. This is huge in the computer industry where everything is about going faster and bigger.

Aside from just the tech specs which are in BR's favor, you also have to consider the intangibles. One of Australia's leading retailers just announced they would only sell BR. Japan is almost entirely BR and Europe will quickly go that route with the PS3 launch. BR discs are now cheaper on average and with Sony's $600 player hitting this summer, the price difference is far less of a factor.

Considering all those factors, I just don't see how HD-DVD could pull out a win at this point without sub $100 players.

[phranctoast]

Considering all those factors, I just don't see how HD-DVD could pull out a win at this point without sub $100 players.

And..if even if they did, they still dont have the studio support, so people would see their movies not making it on HDDVD and choose the one that does support their movies.

[Musashi]

Originally Posted by BaronVonFlapJack

I really need to know, without touting the same bull crap that you hear from Sony, what is so superior about Blu-Ray over HD DVD? I am honestly asking for a smart honest answer why the FORMAT is superior.

Here are the points that kept popping up in the past:

1. Superior Picture Quality.
The reality is that in its first year Blu-Ray titles were plagued with PQ issues and from most of the reviews I read, and believe me I have read alot, when the same title was put side by side, HD DVD got the better review. This I see is an issue that wont matter in time as Sony figures out there shit, Im sure they both look equally amazing.

I've seen enough of HD-DVD and Blu-Ray in stores to know that both have top-notch picture quality. I found no glaring problems with early BD titles, I even own a few of them, and they look fantastic to me. On paper and with today's dev kits, Blu-Ray is capable of beter PQ since it has more capacity and is 1.5x faster. Also, there's more BD movies with lossless audio than there are HD-DVDs with it.

Originally Posted by BaronVonFlapJack

2. Storage Space: Can we stop using this already? Blu-Ray has yet to release a title that utilized the 50gb of space. HD DVD has already announced there 51gb disk (the extra gb for bragging rights Im sure). Again, in time, PQ and storage will be the same, give or take.

Why stop using it when its true? Storage space is what separates BD and HD-DVD from original DVD. The only bragging rights Toshiba will get from the 3-layer 51GB disc is having an essentially useless disc. Sony has tested a 6-layer 200GB blu-ray disc, but who's counting? My point is, today's players are designed to read up to 2 layers. 3+ layer discs will not work, and alienating customers by rendering their toys prematurely obsolete will not win any format wars. So, per usual, as far as real world capacity goes, BD50 > HD30.

Originally Posted by BaronVonFlapJack

Currently HD is half the price of BluRay, for almost a year now. Why would I want to go to Blu Ray at twice the price?

"That's wrong; I can see you're gonna need some more homework." -Greyhound
A PS3 is usually $600 but can also be found for $500 in some places. Cheapest HD-DVD player I know of is no lower than $450, maybe not even that low. 360 add costs a total $500 for system + accessory (or $600 if you want the premium edition of the system), and lacks HDMI last I checked (feel free to correct).

Similarly, there's FUD surrounding manufacturing costs, which are actually somewhat close, with BD being a little more expensive per disc, but less per GB. Street prices of movies are about the same, with some HD-DVD titles costing more due to being DVD-combo flippers.

Originally Posted by BaronVonFlapJack

Studio Support: Naturally in the end, the titles will make a big difference, but why did the studios support Blu Ray over HD in the first place? Was it because of the big promises that Sony made that they were not able to deliver in their first year.

The studios chose to support Blu-Ray. It was a sound business decision for them. I suppose the only ppl who know the true answers are the companies' respective board members, but like any corporation, they exist to reap profit, and this is how to plan on getting it.

Originally Posted by BaronVonFlapJack

Both formats have excellent titles, but Im trying to gather why you are so passionate about Blu Ray?

I'm passionate about movies in general, and Blu-Ray has the best stuff to deliver them with. The format war is an obstacle in the way if widespread adoption of hi-def, blue laser discs, so I'd prefer it end quickly so the industry and the fans can get into the hi-def scene uninhibited. While there are titles from Universal and Weinstein that I do like, there's far more on the Blu side that I want, and I can patiently await those two to go neutral since I've plenty of movies and games to occupy the time. There's also the fact that M$ is using the format war as a means to delay the use of blue laser and buy time for download to become more viable as a delivery system. Unfortuneately for them, disc isn't going anywhere. I get what I like and vote with my wallet, so that makes me passionate about Blu-Ray.

Originally Posted by BaronVonFlapJack

I jumped into the game with the XBox HD DVD add on and was blown away and impressed as hell.

Sounds like my reaction, only in my case it was a Blu-Ray movie on my PS3.

Originally Posted by BaronVonFlapJack

Since I dont feel like waiting for years for this thing to settle, I will be going dual format soon so I will be able to enjoy both formats titles.

Good choice.

[iceman]

Originally Posted by BaronVonFlapJack

I really need to know, without touting the same bull crap that you hear from Sony, what is so superior about Blu-Ray over HD DVD? I am honestly asking for a smart honest answer why the FORMAT is superior.

Here are the points that kept popping up in the past:

1. Superior Picture Quality.
The reality is that in its first year Blu-Ray titles were plagued with PQ issues and from most of the reviews I read, and believe me I have read alot, when the same title was put side by side, HD DVD got the better review. This I see is an issue that wont matter in time as Sony figures out there shit, Im sure they both look equally amazing.

First of all, please please please PLEASE stop using Blu-ray = Sony. Blu-ray = BDA, here are some BDA companies: https://www.blu-ray.com/info/
For the complete list of BDA companies, check out: www.blu-raydisc.com. If anything HD-DVD = Toshiba + M$.

The PQ issue goes all the way back to the Fifth Element released autumn 2006 combined with BD-P1000. The PQ arguments aren't valid anymore, HD-DVD and BD are pretty much the same PQ wise, but BD has better audio.

Originally Posted by BaronVonFlapJack

2. Storage Space: Can we stop using this already? Blu-Ray has yet to release a title that utilized the 50gb of space. HD DVD has already announced there 51gb disk (the extra gb for bragging rights Im sure). Again, in time, PQ and storage will be the same, give or take.

There are lots of BD movies that utilize close to 50GB and far over 30GB. If anything is science fiction it's the 51GB HD-DVD disc, which also, afaik, isn't in the HD-DVD spec. It will be a very very long time until you see 51GB HD-DVD movies. On the other side, BDA has already shown 200GB BDs. Technically BD IS the superior format.

Originally Posted by BaronVonFlapJack

Currently HD is half the price of BluRay, for almost a year now. Why would I want to go to Blu Ray at twice the price?

Are you kidding me? At the moment HD-DVDs are more expensive and the HD-DVD/DVD combos are much more expensive than BDs. You can also check out the ongoing Amazon Blu-ray campaign...

Originally Posted by BaronVonFlapJack

Studio Support: Naturally in the end, the titles will make a big difference, but why did the studios support Blu Ray over HD in the first place? Was it because of the big promises that Sony made that they were not able to deliver in their first year. No retarded answers like "cuz HD iz dum and fer fagz" please. Both formats have excellent titles, but Im trying to gather why you are so passionate about Blu Ray?

Studios chose BD because of:
1. Higher capacity.
2. Higher bandwidth.
3. Better copy protection.
4. Devastating CE support.

Edit: Oh, you meant twice the player price.. not the movies... Musashi covered that