PCM vs. DD 5.1 Question

[JayAuritt]

I have a PS3 connected to a Yamaha RXV-1300 receiver via optical cable (HDMI directly to TV for video) for audio. When I play a movie with uncompressed PCM audio, my receiver indicates (via the lit-up diagram on the unit) that 2 channels are being utilized. When I play the same movie using the DD 5.1 audio, the receiver indicates 5.1 channels being utilized. Now, I've been told that this is normal, and that the receiver somehow takes the 2 PCM channels and converts it to 5.1 (or something like that). This may be true, but the audio does NOT fill the room when playing the PCM track as it does with the DD 5.1 track, which sounds, to me, much better and fuller. So, either I need my hearing checked or something else is out of whack. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

[Josh]

Optical can only support 2 channels of PCM. You need HDMI to get all channels to your receiver.

[JayAuritt]

Originally Posted by joshd2012

Optical can only support 2 channels of PCM. You need HDMI to get all channels to your receiver.

Okay, at least that tells me it ain't my ears.....so no PCM until I get a new receiver with HDMI? Do I have that right?

Thanks for the info.

[Josh]

Originally Posted by JayAuritt

Okay, at least that tells me it ain't my ears.....so no PCM until I get a new receiver with HDMI? Do I have that right?

Thanks for the info.

Yup. The receiver will try to matrix the data to give you surround sound, but you still only start with two channels - never as good as getting it that way from the source. You'll just have to hold tight until you can pick up a HDMI receiver.

[JayAuritt]

Originally Posted by joshd2012

Yup. The receiver will try to matrix the data to give you surround sound, but you still only start with two channels - never as good as getting it that way from the source. You'll just have to hold tight until you can pick up a HDMI receiver.

Thanks...I have every intention of purchasing a receiver with HDMI 1.3 the second Yamaha puts one on the market.

[Stundra]

Originally Posted by JayAuritt

Thanks...I have every intention of purchasing a receiver with HDMI 1.3 the second Yamaha puts one on the market.

have you activated optical multichannel output within the ps3 settings yet?

[JayAuritt]

Originally Posted by Stundra

have you activated optical multichannel output within the ps3 settings yet?

I'm not sure what that means....I have it set to bitstream, that's about all I remember....is there some other setting I should know about?

[coolmilo]

I had the same issue when playing PCM over optical. The sound quality was not great at all, especially when compared to even the compressed 5.1 THX sound track over optical cable. In fact, it sounded like the sound was constrained in a box.

To acheive the full PCM sound (in all its glory), I connected my Blu-ray player to my receiver via 6 analog cables. Then I had to configure my receiver to support DVD Analog (menu settings). The result of this configuration change sounds really awesome.

I played the initial attack scene from Pearl Habor and I thought the frick'n planes were right over my head. The sound just came alive and it can be a little scary at times. The scenes in The Prestige when they power on Tesla's transport machine are amazing sounding too. You feel like you are right in the middle of the electric field.

Now I need to rewatch all my movies to live the experience.

[kurt vidal]

jayauritt, dont let coolmilo confuse you. Since your PS3 doesnt have the analog outs, you will have to live with your optical out via bitstream to get your DD5.1 (that IS the best you'll do until u upgrade to a rcvr w/hdmi input). I'm not sure why you are hung up on a Yamaha though and you may not need to wait for a rcvr w/hdmi 1.3 if Sony upgrades the firmware to output some of the HD master audio. You may want to do some research on the denon 887 or 987, there are a few folks that just picked them up on these forums. The calibration setup that comes w/the denons is superior (audessy or something like that). I just picked up a avr-987 and after using the calibration setup I cant tell the difference between my living room and a real movie theatre!

[Maximus]

You could use PCM over optical and let your receiver do a bit of Dolby Pro Logic II trickery and convert it into 5.1, it works pretty well, but 5.1 discrete is also a good option.

[allanmejia]

The only thing that will give you true 5.1 PCM uncompressed audio is HDMI, optical just dont have enough bandwidth to handle it.

There is a Sony receiver that i would recomend, for the money, the STR-DG1000, i bought one for $600.00, it will handle up to 8 channels of linear PCM audio, it also up-converts analog, s-video and component signals through HDMI, different sound fields, 7.1 channel, and decoders for every single format out there.

Do a google search and compare.

Regards.

Allan.

[coolmilo]

Originally Posted by kurt vidal

jayauritt, dont let coolmilo confuse you. !

My bad, I did not know that the PS3 does not have analog out. I have a BDP-S1. Please ignore my post.

[JayAuritt]

Originally Posted by kurt vidal

jayauritt, dont let coolmilo confuse you. Since your PS3 doesnt have the analog outs, you will have to live with your optical out via bitstream to get your DD5.1 (that IS the best you'll do until u upgrade to a rcvr w/hdmi input). I'm not sure why you are hung up on a Yamaha though and you may not need to wait for a rcvr w/hdmi 1.3 if Sony upgrades the firmware to output some of the HD master audio. You may want to do some research on the denon 887 or 987, there are a few folks that just picked them up on these forums. The calibration setup that comes w/the denons is superior (audessy or something like that). I just picked up a avr-987 and after using the calibration setup I cant tell the difference between my living room and a real movie theatre!

I'm hung up on Yamaha because I'm on my 3rd receiver of theirs going back 15 years or so and all 3 are still working beautifully - I've only purchased new ones for upgrade purposes only. I love everything about their product, and even though I'm quite sure there are plenty of others out there that are just as good (and even better - many at a hefty price) I'd rather buy a unit in which I have absolute confidence. And it makes no sense to buy a receiver now in order to upgrade to HDMI when, with everything I hear, HDMI 1.3 receivers are just around the corner.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by allanmejia

The only thing that will give you true 5.1 PCM uncompressed audio is HDMI, optical just dont have enough bandwidth to handle it.

There is a Sony receiver that i would recomend, for the money, the STR-DG1000, i bought one for $600.00, it will handle up to 8 channels of linear PCM audio, it also up-converts analog, s-video and component signals through HDMI, different sound fields, 7.1 channel, and decoders for every single format out there.

Do a google search and compare.

Regards.

Allan.

NO true - you can get uncompressed audio through analog audio outputs.

The only way to get uncompressed audio on the PS3 is through HDMI.

I have to agree with josh's post. Use dolby or DTS until you get a receiver with HDMI audio capabilities if you've got a PS3. No receiver can create a soundfield from 2 channels the way a discreet 5.1 source can. Leave the PCM on the backburner until you upgrade your receiver.

You can get an Onkyo 604 from Amazon for $499 which has HDMI audio capabilities and 90 watts per channel into 7.1

Or you can wait a few more months and get an HDMI 1.3 receiver.

Originally Posted by JayAuritt

And it makes no sense to buy a receiver now in order to upgrade to HDMI when, with everything I hear, HDMI 1.3 receivers are just around the corner.

It would really only make sense if we knew the PS3 has DTS-MA decoding coming, because then there's really no need for an HDMI 1.3 receiver.

[JayAuritt]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

It would really only make sense if we knew the PS3 has DTS-MA decoding coming, because then there's really no need for an HDMI 1.3 receiver.

Being technically-challenged, I must ask: are you saying that if the PS3 gets an upgrade for DTS-MA decoding, that an HDMI 1.3 receiver is not necessary?
If that's the case, one would still need an HDMI receiver to get DTS-MA and uncompressed PCM....correct?

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by JayAuritt

Being technically-challenged, I must ask: are you saying that if the PS3 gets an upgrade for DTS-MA decoding, that an HDMI 1.3 receiver is not necessary?
If that's the case, one would still need an HDMI receiver to get DTS-MA and uncompressed PCM....correct?

Yes, if the PS3 gets DTS-MA decoding to go along with the TrueHD decoding it already has, you'll only need an HDMI 1.1 receiver.
You should make sure the receiver can handle a full 7.1 signal through HDMI, as some are reporting that certain HDMI-audio capable receivers only accept 5.1 through HDMI, even through the receiver is 7.1

[JayAuritt]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

Yes, if the PS3 gets DTS-MA decoding to go along with the TrueHD decoding it already has, you'll only need an HDMI 1.1 receiver.
You should make sure the receiver can handle a full 7.1 signal through HDMI, as some are reporting that certain HDMI-audio capable receivers only accept 5.1 through HDMI, even through the receiver is 7.1

Thanks for the info...since I need to buy a new receiver if I want HDMI, I'll probably just wait it out until 1.3 is available anyway, but that's good to know.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by JayAuritt

Thanks for the info...since I need to buy a new receiver if I want HDMI, I'll probably just wait it out until 1.3 is available anyway, but that's good to know.

Good choice. You're pretty much guaranteeing full compatability with 7.1 sources and you'll have an HDMI 1.3 pass through as well for the television.

[misterjonez]

Hi, never posted here but I thought I had a decent question: Everyone keeps saying that the only way to transport the PCM uncompressed audio is through an HDMI interface...what about the optical cables? I sure as heck can tell a huuuuge difference with my Denon AVR-2307CI when comparing DTS 5.1 and PCM uncompressed. PCM knocks your socks off compared to the DTS 5.1. Now granted, I only have five channels set up currently, but it's still amazing to notice the difference.

P.S. My receiver does indicate all channels are being utilized correctly.

[ay221]

Correct me if I am wrong but, even if you have a receiver with hdmi 1.3 and supports the DTS MA and other high end codecs, the movie discs have to be done in "player profile V1.1" which they haven't made any yet. So your current movies that have DTS MA, you will need to decode it in the player.