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Old 08-28-2012, 01:52 PM   #541
NeoMaximuz NeoMaximuz is offline
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I never really bothered, and don't think I will, to watch any of the Disney animation post Pocahontas--after that it went severely downhill in my opinion. I have a brand new copy of Dinosaur that I got through the DMR, and I don't know if I should open it or not.

Both Rescuers, IMHO, are awesome, though! Bring on Aladdin!
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Old 08-28-2012, 04:32 PM   #542
yumny yumny is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoMaximuz View Post
I never really bothered, and don't think I will, to watch any of the Disney animation post Pocahontas--after that it went severely downhill in my opinion. I have a brand new copy of Dinosaur that I got through the DMR, and I don't know if I should open it or not.

Both Rescuers, IMHO, are awesome, though! Bring on Aladdin!
That's a mistake - the post '95 movies were vindicated by history for a reason. Hercules is one of the funniest and still heartwarming, Hunchback is mature and dark, Mulan is hilarious and light, Tarzan is epic and well-realized. Like you suggest I'd skip Dinosaur, but do not skip the other movies from Disney's Dork Age. Emperor's New Groove is top notch comedy full of adult humor, Lilo & Stitch is the most emotionally resonant film in the bunch, Treasure Planet has a good adventure story, Brother Bear looks magnificent and isn't too shabby either, Atlantis technically proficient and very un-Disney. I'd skip Chicken Little and Home on the Range, both are terrible. Not sure about Meet the Robinsons, but Bolt is sort of generic so for that one you might as well. The Princess and the Frog, Tangled and Winnie the Pooh are the three best movies Disney has done since Tarzan, so definitely check those out.
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Old 08-28-2012, 05:52 PM   #543
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Originally Posted by yumny View Post
That's a mistake - the post '95 movies were vindicated by history for a reason. Hercules is one of the funniest and still heartwarming, Hunchback is mature and dark, Mulan is hilarious and light, Tarzan is epic and well-realized. Like you suggest I'd skip Dinosaur, but do not skip the other movies from Disney's Dork Age. Emperor's New Groove is top notch comedy full of adult humor, Lilo & Stitch is the most emotionally resonant film in the bunch, Treasure Planet has a good adventure story, Brother Bear looks magnificent and isn't too shabby either, Atlantis technically proficient and very un-Disney. I'd skip Chicken Little and Home on the Range, both are terrible. Not sure about Meet the Robinsons, but Bolt is sort of generic so for that one you might as well. The Princess and the Frog, Tangled and Winnie the Pooh are the three best movies Disney has done since Tarzan, so definitely check those out.
Definitely check out Meet the Robinsons, I think Tangled, PATF, Meet the Robinsons and Lilo & Stitch are disney's best movies from the 2000s. I can't pledge for Winnie because I have not gotten around to seeing it yet.
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Old 08-28-2012, 05:56 PM   #544
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Definitely check out Meet the Robinsons, I think Tangled, PATF, Meet the Robinsons and Lilo & Stitch are disney's best movies from the 2000s. I can't pledge for Winnie because I have not gotten around to seeing it yet.
Go see Winnie, it's amazing! Very cute and exquisitely drawn. Wonderful little stories, everyone is completely in character, new songs and music
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Old 08-28-2012, 05:58 PM   #545
disneyfreak disneyfreak is offline
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Originally Posted by yumny View Post
Go see Winnie, it's amazing! Very cute and exquisitely drawn. Wonderful little stories, everyone is completely in character, new songs and music
Whats sad is I've owned it for quite some time now, but I always seem to forget about it haha
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Old 08-28-2012, 06:00 PM   #546
NeoMaximuz NeoMaximuz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yumny View Post
That's a mistake - the post '95 movies were vindicated by history for a reason. Hercules is one of the funniest and still heartwarming, Hunchback is mature and dark, Mulan is hilarious and light, Tarzan is epic and well-realized. Like you suggest I'd skip Dinosaur, but do not skip the other movies from Disney's Dork Age. Emperor's New Groove is top notch comedy full of adult humor, Lilo & Stitch is the most emotionally resonant film in the bunch, Treasure Planet has a good adventure story, Brother Bear looks magnificent and isn't too shabby either, Atlantis technically proficient and very un-Disney. I'd skip Chicken Little and Home on the Range, both are terrible. Not sure about Meet the Robinsons, but Bolt is sort of generic so for that one you might as well. The Princess and the Frog, Tangled and Winnie the Pooh are the three best movies Disney has done since Tarzan, so definitely check those out.
Well, when you put it that way... I guess I'll have to check them out!

I did see Chicken Little and didn't care for it, and Tangled I did want to check out, but now I'll have to check out the rest you suggested.
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Old 08-28-2012, 07:01 PM   #547
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Originally Posted by NeoMaximuz View Post
I never really bothered, and don't think I will, to watch any of the Disney animation post Pocahontas--after that it went severely downhill in my opinion. I have a brand new copy of Dinosaur that I got through the DMR, and I don't know if I should open it or not.
Um....THAT one you don't have to feel bad about if you don't bother.

Running down the rest (with 5-star ranking):
----
- Hunchback (2/5): Has its defenders (hoo boy! ) for its elegant "serious!" tone, but still feels like Disney, fresh off their Broadway success, trying to sell us new stage musicals before the paint's even dry on the film. Um, are we allowed to decide whether we like the "classic" movie first, before we buy our $100 New Amsterdam tickets and t-shirts?
- Hercules (5/5): Audiences at the time couldn't stand the sitcommy "burlesque" spin on Greek myth, but given the right mood, it wins you over after a while. It's Musker & Clements, so definitely put yourself in a kinetic Robin Williams/Aladdin mood, as it ain't Hunchback.
- Mulan (4/5): Herc and Hunch had been disasters in theaters, so Disney went back to formula and made a good narrative film, with a spunky female character, instead of a Broadway commercial. It's got all the "classic" ingredients (even a comedy relief that isn't irritating...much), and got Disney out of their 90's hole.
- Tarzan (3/5): Unfortunately, this one took longer to make, because of a new tech development on the CGI system, and came late to the party--Just as Mulan was starting to break out of the "Melodrama story" and "Sniffy villain", etc. mid-90's conventions, this one arrived still carrying some of the old baggage. It's good looking and has good (if identical) Phil Collins songs, but it's just not as epic as it very much wants to be.
- Emperor's New Groove (3.5/5): Have to put this one in historical context--Disney's troubles were getting deeper with the audience, a serious Mayan project had folded in production, and so it felt like a clean slate to just kick back with some kinetic toony silliness. Even for those who (yeesh!) couldn't stand Mark Dindal's hyperactive gag-toons on Chicken Little, this one manages to bridge the gap back to Hercules/Aladdin, and give us gags you don't mind laughing at...Yes, even David Spade. Really.
- Atlantis (1/5): Trousdale & Wise were originally contracted to do "Journey to the Center of the Earth", thought it was too "dull", wanted an original faux-Verne with "more monsters", and the budget and schedule didn't have time for any. And so long, long passages of story were left blank, with nothing to fill them except offsettingly quirky and unlikable characters doing their business, which is mostly to school-bully our poor underdog hero. Just imagine how good this movie would have looked with an actual story.
- Lilo & Stitch (3.5/5): When it came out during the Troubles, this was seen as some sort of anti-Eisner "revolution", just because the characters and tone were a big quirkier, and it basically became the Tim Burton of Disney Animation at the time--With a cult saying "It's so cute and weird!" Well, it's not that weird, and the characters are likable, just...not so much in this story, which jumps in a hundred directions without even remotely letting us in on any of the main characters' cute-'n-quirky heads. The title characters are ultimately lovable in their way, but don't feel badly if it takes you more than one viewing to figure out who the heck is the main protagonist and what the heck is going on.
- Treasure Planet (4.5/5): There are a dozen reasons why this one "flopped" in theaters, and very little have to do with the actual film. Like Hercules, it's an example that Musker & Clements have enough instinct to put one good scene after another in just about any atmosphere, and despite some attempts at comedy relief (a few of which, yes, stay true to the book), it's as reverent to Robert Louis Stevenson as you can want it to be.
- Brother Bear (1.5/5): Think the best term here is "You can dress 'em up, but you can't take 'em out"--Beautiful Alaskan scenery, a predictable story, and intrusively cheap gags that don't belong next to gorgeous shots of the Northern Lights. Gets a half star for the SCTV comedy reliefs, which is all most people remember.
- Home on the Range (3.5/5): Yes, it has Roseanne in it. Yes, it looks "funny". But y'know, it...ain't that bad, really. Made for the same reasons as Emperor's New Groove, and funny on the same kick-back "farewell to the serious project" level.
- Chicken Little (1/5): (Never mind, you know this one. And when Eisner bows down and kneels before Zod...er, Dreamworks after Shrek 2, somebody had to GO--Never mind that Mark Dindal without Groove's cuddliness--and an almost resentfully by-the-numbers turning of standard hyperactive-CGI tropes up to 11, 12 and 13--can make you wish you were only watching a Dreamworks comedy... )
- Meet the Robinsons (5/5): There was a shakeup at the studio, and the exec who gave us Chicken Little was replaced by the Pixar Guy--In mid-film. You can actually see the transition onscreen, as repellently hyperactive characters in the first half actually become huggy, supportive Pixar-esque characters with an exciting Pixar-climax story in the second half. This was the statement we wanted to hear from the studio, and the message about "hope for the future" fell on the right ears.
- Bolt (4/5): Like Groove and Range, another "cleanup" project, but with Lasseter and the Pixar Brain Trust at the helm, they decided to turn troubled storyboards into an actual story with sympathetic characters instead. The story feels a little "improvised" on default rails because of that, but like Robinsons, they all find their way out by the end by asking us to like the story, for a change.
- Princess & the Frog (3/5): Yes, I was waiting for the "return" of 90's films too--And while it's not bad-bad, and pretty good-looking in fact, you keep asking yourself "What's missing?" You're halfway through the film while waiting for it to "begin", and realize somebody forgot to bring whatever usually created the emotion in a M&C film. Maybe it's that the setting and the story seem to be on an awkward first blind date without ever having met, so there's no sense of atmosphere to go with the newly-thought-up characters.
- Tangled (5/5): What was "missing" in Princess&Frog?: THIS. A classic-fairytale source updated imaginatively, a sympathetic heroine who's spunky without being obnoxiously empowered, a good hero, some genuinely funny animal sidekicks, an appealingly nasty villain, songs that feel Broadway without being Hunchback-stagey, and the right sniffle/wonder moments in the right places (which had been the hardest part for the other movies to figure out). Seems to have hit all the right notes almost by accident, but like the similarly "happy accident" Mermaid, if Disney keeps copying it to try and figure out What Went Right, that's perfectly fine with me.
- Winnie the Pooh (4/5): This was more of a Studio Statement--"Take back our classic 60's Pooh!"--than an actual A-B storyline, but for those of us raising the banner, it's not a bad wander for an hour or two, in the spirit of the old Saturday-morning series before it got too commercialized. Stays true to the originals, although, like Disney's Muppets, there's an occasional sense of "Retro-imitation" a little TOO hard for the sake of cuddly fan nostalgia.
----

...So, er, yeah. There ARE a few to check out.

Last edited by EricJ; 08-28-2012 at 11:59 PM.
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Old 08-28-2012, 07:08 PM   #548
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^ Here's the thing; when recommending a set of 10-15 movies to someone who hasn't seen them before, allow them to form their own opinion.

My personal favorites from the 95-12 era are "Hercules", "Tarzan", "Emperor", "Lilo and Stitch", "Princess and the Frog" and "Winnie the Pooh". And as anyone probably will tell you, Dinosaur is skippable except for it's beautiful CGI backgrounds. Home on the Range has nothing to go for it.
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Old 08-28-2012, 07:18 PM   #549
disneyfreak disneyfreak is offline
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I agree with Yumny let him form his own opinions, because it depends on the person, I personally love Hunchback but don't like Hercules very much, while others think otherwise. I think Atlantis is also a lot better than Treasure planet. So it really just depends on the person. The only thing everyone can agree on is Dinosaur, Home on the Range, and Chicken Little are the weakest of the bunch and are almost skip worthy.
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Old 08-28-2012, 07:40 PM   #550
Ernest Rister Ernest Rister is offline
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Herc and Hunch had been disasters in theaters...

Hardly. Hunchback hit $100 million in stateside theatrical grosses, and did well overseas, too. In fact, in France, it was the highest grossing film of the year.

Hercules missed the $100 million mark by a hair, but the fact that a rollicking musical animated comedy from Disney didn't come anywhere near Aladdin's $200 million haul to say nothing of The Lion King -- that sent a chll wind through the entire American animation industry, and studios began to see that The Lion King and Aladdin were non repeating phenomenons, and one by one, they began closing their own in-house animation wings and susidiaries as their fledgling efforts either bombed or underperformed.

Herclues didn't flop - it made $40 million less than Pocahontas and the initial release of Beauty and the Beast and it outgrossed The Little Mermaid (again, in initial release). Same thing with Hunchback. They just weren't Aladdin/Lion King-esque smashes.
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Old 08-28-2012, 07:50 PM   #551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yumny View Post
^ Here's the thing; when recommending a set of 10-15 movies to someone who hasn't seen them before, allow them to form their own opinion.
Well, yeah, but if he deliberately avoided them because he was symbolically "punishing" them for the post-Pocahontas years, it helps to have a few real-world details.
Like Planet, or Herc, or Robinsons--and please tell me he wasn't scared off by that first Tangled teaser--one can occasionally read the wrong headlines if they're not open-minded enough to investigate everything.

All he said he wanted was nudge in the right direction:
"Wait, somebody said they liked Home on the Range, and Princess&Frog wasn't that bad?...Okay, this I gotta find out. "
(I mean, what if he only rented Atlantis and said "See, I was right!"? Can't have that, not on the Internet.)

Last edited by EricJ; 08-28-2012 at 07:57 PM.
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Old 08-28-2012, 08:03 PM   #552
NeoMaximuz NeoMaximuz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricJ View Post
Well, yeah, but if he deliberately avoided them because he was symbolically "punishing" them for the post-Pocahontas years, it helps to have a few real-world details.
Like Planet, or Herc, or Robinsons--and please tell me he wasn't scared off by that first Tangled teaser--one can occasionally read the wrong headlines if they're not open-minded enough to investigate everything.

All he said he wanted was nudge in the right direction:
"Wait, somebody said they liked Home on the Range, and Princess&Frog wasn't that bad?...Okay, this I gotta find out. "
(I mean, what if he only rented Atlantis and said "See, I was right!"? Can't have that, not on the Internet.)
If you mean me, I wasn't really punishing Disney, I guess I just kind of lost interest once I got a little older. The early '90s Disney cartoons I liked because I was still a kid, and the older ones I liked for the nostalgic appeal, I still do.

Then the late '90s brought Pixar, and IMHO they stole Disney's thunder after that.

But... Tangled interested me from the first teaser I saw. I just haven't gotten around to watch it.

I have always been a fan of Golden Age animation, but lost interest in animation after the Renaissance of the early '90s. But I may give all those that you guys were mentioning (thanks btw for the highly detailed lists!), but it will take time. It's hard to buy the time to sit down and watch a movie nowadays.
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Old 08-28-2012, 08:20 PM   #553
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Since I'm curious, I wanted to know: What's everyone's favorite DTV sequel (if they even have one). I'll admit I'm not so big of a fan of them (I don't even watch them) but I will pick out a favorite after all the riots this post makes
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Old 08-28-2012, 08:22 PM   #554
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Since I'm curious, I wanted to know: What's everyone's favorite DTV sequel (if they even have one). I'll admit I'm not so big of a fan of them (I don't even watch them) but I will pick out a favorite after all the riots this post makes
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Old 08-28-2012, 08:31 PM   #555
NeoMaximuz NeoMaximuz is offline
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That's the only DTV sequel that I like; probably the only one I've seen.

Actually, I LOVE this DTV sequel!
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Old 08-28-2012, 08:46 PM   #556
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Since I'm curious, I wanted to know: What's everyone's favorite DTV sequel (if they even have one). I'll admit I'm not so big of a fan of them (I don't even watch them) but I will pick out a favorite after all the riots this post makes
Definitely Beauty and the Beast: The Enchanted Christmas, but Aladdin and the King of Thieves has always been another favorite.
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Old 08-28-2012, 08:54 PM   #557
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PuppyJonathan View Post
Since I'm curious, I wanted to know: What's everyone's favorite DTV sequel (if they even have one). I'll admit I'm not so big of a fan of them (I don't even watch them) but I will pick out a favorite after all the riots this post makes
I'll have to say both Lion King sequels. Not that I will but them but at least I can stand them. They don't have horrible animation and are passable entertainment.
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Old 08-28-2012, 08:56 PM   #558
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Originally Posted by Ernest Rister View Post
Herc and Hunch had been disasters in theaters...

Hardly. Hunchback hit $100 million in stateside theatrical grosses, and did well overseas, too. In fact, in France, it was the highest grossing film of the year.

Hercules missed the $100 million mark by a hair, but the fact that a rollicking musical animated comedy from Disney didn't come anywhere near Aladdin's $200 million haul to say nothing of The Lion King -- that sent a chll wind through the entire American animation industry, and studios began to see that The Lion King and Aladdin were non repeating phenomenons, and one by one, they began closing their own in-house animation wings and susidiaries as their fledgling efforts either bombed or underperformed.

Herclues didn't flop - it made $40 million less than Pocahontas and the initial release of Beauty and the Beast and it outgrossed The Little Mermaid (again, in initial release). Same thing with Hunchback. They just weren't Aladdin/Lion King-esque smashes.
You are right. I don't know why people think that the movies post Lion King and until Tarzan weren't successful. All of them Pocahontas, Hunchback, Hercules, Mulan and Tarzan were successful. True, not as successful as Lion King or Aladdin but still earned money.
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Old 08-28-2012, 09:18 PM   #559
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PuppyJonathan View Post
Since I'm curious, I wanted to know: What's everyone's favorite DTV sequel (if they even have one). I'll admit I'm not so big of a fan of them (I don't even watch them) but I will pick out a favorite after all the riots this post makes
Definitely "Kronk's New Groove"
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Old 08-28-2012, 10:35 PM   #560
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Since I'm curious, I wanted to know: What's everyone's favorite DTV sequel (if they even have one). I'll admit I'm not so big of a fan of them (I don't even watch them) but I will pick out a favorite after all the riots this post makes
Atlantis II: the TV Series, aka "Gargoyles: the Next Generation".
Mulan II: She's a Role Model Now
Brother Bear 2: Same Thing, Now With Girls Included
Lilo & Stitch 2: The TV Series Hasn't Happened Yet, For Those Who Liked the Sister/Family Stuff
Cinderella III: the Apology
Little Mermaid III: the Even Bigger Apology AND Excuse to Use an Old Archive Concept Design
Enchanted Tales: Follow Your Dreams (aka "Sure, another Aladdin TV episode's easy, but you didn't think we could do a Sleeping Beauty spinoff too, did you?")

Last edited by EricJ; 08-28-2012 at 10:43 PM.
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