After HD DVD Drop, Toshiba Spends $835M to Back PS3 - Blu-ray Forum

02-23-2008, 09:37 PM

After HD DVD Drop, Toshiba Spends $835M to Back PS3
Jason Mick (Blog) - February 23, 2008 12:46 PM

The 90nm Cell/B.E. package as found in the PlayStation 3, now to be manufactured by Toshiba. (Source: DailyTech)
Sony gives Toshiba something in return for its troubles -- Japanese Cell chip plants for $835M

A new twist has emerged with the death of HD DVD. After Warner, Best Buy, Walmart and Netflix jumped on the Blu bandwagon, the fate of HD DVD was already sealed.

Despite the grim news, the principle HD DVD developer, Toshiba Corporation, refused to initially comment on its plans for its HD DVD. However, as many analysts predicted, Toshiba came out last week and officially surrendered to Blu-ray.

Many saw Toshiba's willingness to give up on HD DVD as a logical business decision and perhaps an admission of Blu-ray's superiority. However, there might be a little more to the story. Reuters reports that on Wednesday Toshiba and Sony Corporation, one of Blu-ray's principle developers, agreed to a major business deal, reached just after Toshiba made its final HD DVD decision.

Sony agreed to sell it microchip processing facilities in western Japan for approximately $835M USD. These facilities currently produce Cell processors and RSX graphic chips. Toshiba will enter the joint venture with Sony on April 1, 2008.

Toshiba, IBM and Sony were the principle developers of the Cell microprocessor, but Toshiba previously showed little interest in using the chip for any of its own projects. Sony touts the Cell broadband engine in its Playstation 3 consoles; IBM uses the Cell processor in high performance computing clusters. Toshiba has vowed to now use the Cell in its upcoming products.

While Toshiba and Sony entered into talks back in October 2007 and reached a tentative agreement to sell the cell facilities, the two companies continued to haggle about the price. Sony's concession of what is considered a favorable price for Toshiba will likely strike many following Toshiba's drop as HD DVD as more than a coincidence, and perhaps a sign of an informal agreement.

The other interesting aspect of the move is that it indicates a clear shift by Toshiba to back the PS3. The PS3, which last month outsold Microsoft's Xbox 360, previously had few ties to the company; while Microsoft's number one ally in hardware manufacturing has always been Toshiba. Toshiba manufacturers several components for the Xbox 360, including the HD DVD add-on, and the Microsoft Zune MP3 players.

Toshiba's flip-flop may have been in the cards for a while. Microsoft showed little remose as HD DVD took second place to Blu-ray; a move Toshiba must have recognized from its American ally. Now the solidified PS3 venture between Sony and Toshiba indicates that Toshiba now has switched to backing the PS3 almost exclusively, another victory for Sony

Paul A · 02-23-2008, 10:41 PM

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=10826

The 90nm Cell/B.E. package as found in the PlayStation 3, now to be manufactured by Toshiba. (Source: DailyTech)Sony gives Toshiba something in return for its troubles -- Japanese Cell chip plants for $835M

A new twist has emerged with the death of HD DVD. After Warner, Best Buy, Walmart and Netflix jumped on the Blu bandwagon, the fate of HD DVD was already sealed.

Despite the grim news, the principle HD DVD developer, Toshiba Corporation, refused to initially comment on its plans for its HD DVD. However, as many analysts predicted, Toshiba came out last week and officially surrendered to Blu-ray.

Many saw Toshiba's willingness to give up on HD DVD as a logical business decision and perhaps an admission of Blu-ray's superiority. However, there might be a little more to the story. Reuters reports that on Wednesday Toshiba and Sony Corporation, one of Blu-ray's principle developers, agreed to a major business deal, reached just after Toshiba made its final HD DVD decision.

Sony agreed to sell it microchip processing facilities in western Japan for approximately $835M USD. These facilities currently produce Cell processors and RSX graphic chips. Toshiba will enter the joint venture with Sony on April 1, 2008.

Toshiba, IBM and Sony were the principle developers of the Cell microprocessor, but Toshiba previously showed little interest in using the chip for any of its own projects. Sony touts the Cell broadband engine in its Playstation 3 consoles; IBM uses the Cell processor in high performance computing clusters. Toshiba has vowed to now use the Cell in its upcoming products.

While Toshiba and Sony entered into talks back in October 2007 and reached a tentative agreement to sell the cell facilities, the two companies continued to haggle about the price. Sony's concession of what is considered a favorable price for Toshiba will likely strike many following Toshiba's drop as HD DVD as more than a coincidence, and perhaps a sign of an informal agreement.

The other interesting aspect of the move is that it indicates a clear shift by Toshiba to back the PS3. The PS3, which last month outsold Microsoft's Xbox 360, previously had few ties to the company; while Microsoft's number one ally in hardware manufacturing has always been Toshiba. Toshiba manufacturers several components for the Xbox 360, including the HD DVD add-on, and the Microsoft Zune MP3 players.

Toshiba's flip-flop may have been in the cards for a while. Microsoft showed little remose as HD DVD took second place to Blu-ray; a move Toshiba must have recognized from its American ally. Now the solidified PS3 venture between Sony and Toshiba indicates that Toshiba now has switched to backing the PS3 almost exclusively, another victory for Sony.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Blu Titan · 02-23-2008, 10:46 PM

It was expected that they were going to supply the PS3 with the cell processor. It would be crazy for Sony to sell the chip manufacturing plants without assuring of a continued supply. I really don't see this as a BIG announcement.

181 · 02-23-2008, 11:11 PM

the Cell processor was jointly developed by sony, toshiba and ibm.

JasonR · 02-23-2008, 11:13 PM

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=330

PeechCobblerPie · 02-23-2008, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 181

the Cell processor was jointly developed by sony, toshiba and ibm.

yep. To my knowledge Toshiba has been producing this for the PS3 for some time if not from the beginning. Nice to know they will be publicly and arduously supporting Sony and blu now. Toshiba makes some great products although I think a lot of people will be boycotting their products to some extent because of their previous format choice.

mightypen · 02-24-2008, 12:49 AM

Say hello to cognitive dissonance.

Bobby Henderson · 02-24-2008, 01:22 AM

It would be kind of a funny thing if Toshiba ended up making new Blu-ray Disc players driven by a Cell processor. That could really get Microsoft's goat.

MotionBlurr · 02-24-2008, 01:31 AM

Toshiba made cell processors with Sony and IBM like 3 years ago. Why is everyone finding out about this now?

BTBuck1 · 02-24-2008, 01:37 AM

good times!

If ya can't beat em, join em!

ezcobar411 · 02-24-2008, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JasonR

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=330

Exactly what I was thinking. This had been discussed for months now if I am not mistaken

Lord_Stewie · 02-24-2008, 01:40 AM

It is a logical outcome, since the crazy stunt they pulled off with HDDUD.

crystal_sun · 02-24-2008, 04:38 AM

Didn't Toshiba said they won't be making blu-ray players?

Slackr89 · 02-24-2008, 04:42 AM

lol. money, money, money, money .....MONEY!!!

fronn · 02-24-2008, 05:39 AM

Companies work together on some fronts while fighting each other on others.

This really didn't have anything to do with Blu-ray or HD DVD. It's about Sony slowly pulling themselves out of semiconductor manufacturing and one of their partners in the field picking up their slack. Ever since Stringer took over Sony has been down the slow path of selling off their Semiconductor business.

Toshiba is probably the best match around for them to sell it to, as Toshiba is already their partner in exactly this space (they share technologies and have at least one joint fab from my understanding). It makes sense.

It's kind of dumb to see all these news places implying that HD DVD and BR have anything to do with this deal... as it would have happened regardless of HD DVD and BR's outcome -- it wasn't some kind of penance for Toshiba or anything like that. And it certainly isn't Toshiba's way of supporting BR -- they'll do it in time with their own players.

While I'm not sure what any insider has mentioned about this, Max or any other insider familiar (I think Max would be at least?) with the situation will likely say the similar things about this.

WickyWoo · 02-24-2008, 07:09 AM

Toshiba has been a co-investor in the Cell from the beginning, and they're going to be using it in their own devices coming out later this eyar

So this is not Toshiba backing Blu or the PS3, simply investing in their own businessand seeing a good profit center in teh constant income from PS3s and other sony products using Cell

Unknown27 · 02-24-2008, 04:36 PM

http://www.dailytech.com/After+HD+DV...ticle10826.htm

"The other interesting aspect of the move is that it indicates a clear shift by Toshiba to back the PS3. The PS3, which last month outsold Microsoft's Xbox 360, previously had few ties to the company; while Microsoft's number one ally in hardware manufacturing has always been Toshiba. Toshiba manufacturers several components for the Xbox 360, including the HD DVD add-on, and the Microsoft Zune MP3 players.

Toshiba's flip-flop may have been in the cards for a while. Microsoft showed little remose as HD DVD took second place to Blu-ray; a move Toshiba must have recognized from its American ally. Now the solidified PS3 venture between Sony and Toshiba indicates that Toshiba now has switched to backing the PS3 almost exclusively, another victory for Sony."

Crazy stuff...

fronn · 02-24-2008, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unknown27

http://www.dailytech.com/After+HD+DV...ticle10826.htm

"The other interesting aspect of the move is that it indicates a clear shift by Toshiba to back the PS3. The PS3, which last month outsold Microsoft's Xbox 360, previously had few ties to the company; while Microsoft's number one ally in hardware manufacturing has always been Toshiba. Toshiba manufacturers several components for the Xbox 360, including the HD DVD add-on, and the Microsoft Zune MP3 players.

Toshiba's flip-flop may have been in the cards for a while. Microsoft showed little remose as HD DVD took second place to Blu-ray; a move Toshiba must have recognized from its American ally. Now the solidified PS3 venture between Sony and Toshiba indicates that Toshiba now has switched to backing the PS3 almost exclusively, another victory for Sony."

Crazy stuff...

I don't understand where they find these writers. It seems most people are completely unable to analyze situations that happen in the market place. It's ridiculous.

It seems everyone online seems to have these grand ideas that companies are these very cohesive units, when in reality companies the size of Toshiba and Sony have dozens of different divisions that act as separate companies in many ways. The unit of Toshiba that is responsible for foundries is not likely the same unit that is responsible for the manufacturing deals with Microsoft. These agreements are completely independent of each other.

This was actually something Sony had a real problem with until more recently (the different divisions often being at odds with each other, rather than working together).

I'm just thankful all this information isn't necessarily harmful if completely taken the wrong way.

I've seen half a dozen different interpretations on what this means...

Teazle · 02-24-2008, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fronn

It seems everyone online seems to have these grand ideas that companies are these very cohesive units, when in reality companies the size of Toshiba and Sony have dozens of different divisions that act as separate companies in many ways.

I think that understates the matter. In a ludicrous piece of anthropomorphism, this particular blogger from dailytech writes as though these huge corporations were petty individuals with emotions and opinions -- Toshiba flip-flops; Microsoft "showed no remorse" etc. -- as though the guy were reporting on a soap opera. And as Wicky points out, the guy doesn't even seem to know Toshiba was involved in Cell development as early as 2000.

Internet blogs -- big enough to spread misinformation but too small to be worthy of correction by the parties concerned.

radagast · 02-24-2008, 09:16 PM

This story has been out for a while. And as another said, the Cell chip was developed by Sony, IBM, and Toshiba.

02-23-2008, 09:37 PM	#1
stunner Guest	After HD DVD Drop, Toshiba Spends $835M to Back PS3 After HD DVD Drop, Toshiba Spends $835M to Back PS3 Jason Mick (Blog) - February 23, 2008 12:46 PM The 90nm Cell/B.E. package as found in the PlayStation 3, now to be manufactured by Toshiba. (Source: DailyTech) Sony gives Toshiba something in return for its troubles -- Japanese Cell chip plants for $835M A new twist has emerged with the death of HD DVD. After Warner, Best Buy, Walmart and Netflix jumped on the Blu bandwagon, the fate of HD DVD was already sealed. Despite the grim news, the principle HD DVD developer, Toshiba Corporation, refused to initially comment on its plans for its HD DVD. However, as many analysts predicted, Toshiba came out last week and officially surrendered to Blu-ray. Many saw Toshiba's willingness to give up on HD DVD as a logical business decision and perhaps an admission of Blu-ray's superiority. However, there might be a little more to the story. Reuters reports that on Wednesday Toshiba and Sony Corporation, one of Blu-ray's principle developers, agreed to a major business deal, reached just after Toshiba made its final HD DVD decision. Sony agreed to sell it microchip processing facilities in western Japan for approximately $835M USD. These facilities currently produce Cell processors and RSX graphic chips. Toshiba will enter the joint venture with Sony on April 1, 2008. Toshiba, IBM and Sony were the principle developers of the Cell microprocessor, but Toshiba previously showed little interest in using the chip for any of its own projects. Sony touts the Cell broadband engine in its Playstation 3 consoles; IBM uses the Cell processor in high performance computing clusters. Toshiba has vowed to now use the Cell in its upcoming products. While Toshiba and Sony entered into talks back in October 2007 and reached a tentative agreement to sell the cell facilities, the two companies continued to haggle about the price. Sony's concession of what is considered a favorable price for Toshiba will likely strike many following Toshiba's drop as HD DVD as more than a coincidence, and perhaps a sign of an informal agreement. The other interesting aspect of the move is that it indicates a clear shift by Toshiba to back the PS3. The PS3, which last month outsold Microsoft's Xbox 360, previously had few ties to the company; while Microsoft's number one ally in hardware manufacturing has always been Toshiba. Toshiba manufacturers several components for the Xbox 360, including the HD DVD add-on, and the Microsoft Zune MP3 players. Toshiba's flip-flop may have been in the cards for a while. Microsoft showed little remose as HD DVD took second place to Blu-ray; a move Toshiba must have recognized from its American ally. Now the solidified PS3 venture between Sony and Toshiba indicates that Toshiba now has switched to backing the PS3 almost exclusively, another victory for Sony

02-23-2008, 10:41 PM	#2
Paul A Junior Member Member since:Nov 2007	Toshiba to back the PS3 http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=10826 The 90nm Cell/B.E. package as found in the PlayStation 3, now to be manufactured by Toshiba. (Source: DailyTech)Sony gives Toshiba something in return for its troubles -- Japanese Cell chip plants for $835M A new twist has emerged with the death of HD DVD. After Warner, Best Buy, Walmart and Netflix jumped on the Blu bandwagon, the fate of HD DVD was already sealed. Despite the grim news, the principle HD DVD developer, Toshiba Corporation, refused to initially comment on its plans for its HD DVD. However, as many analysts predicted, Toshiba came out last week and officially surrendered to Blu-ray. Many saw Toshiba's willingness to give up on HD DVD as a logical business decision and perhaps an admission of Blu-ray's superiority. However, there might be a little more to the story. Reuters reports that on Wednesday Toshiba and Sony Corporation, one of Blu-ray's principle developers, agreed to a major business deal, reached just after Toshiba made its final HD DVD decision. Sony agreed to sell it microchip processing facilities in western Japan for approximately $835M USD. These facilities currently produce Cell processors and RSX graphic chips. Toshiba will enter the joint venture with Sony on April 1, 2008. Toshiba, IBM and Sony were the principle developers of the Cell microprocessor, but Toshiba previously showed little interest in using the chip for any of its own projects. Sony touts the Cell broadband engine in its Playstation 3 consoles; IBM uses the Cell processor in high performance computing clusters. Toshiba has vowed to now use the Cell in its upcoming products. While Toshiba and Sony entered into talks back in October 2007 and reached a tentative agreement to sell the cell facilities, the two companies continued to haggle about the price. Sony's concession of what is considered a favorable price for Toshiba will likely strike many following Toshiba's drop as HD DVD as more than a coincidence, and perhaps a sign of an informal agreement. The other interesting aspect of the move is that it indicates a clear shift by Toshiba to back the PS3. The PS3, which last month outsold Microsoft's Xbox 360, previously had few ties to the company; while Microsoft's number one ally in hardware manufacturing has always been Toshiba. Toshiba manufacturers several components for the Xbox 360, including the HD DVD add-on, and the Microsoft Zune MP3 players. Toshiba's flip-flop may have been in the cards for a while. Microsoft showed little remose as HD DVD took second place to Blu-ray; a move Toshiba must have recognized from its American ally. Now the solidified PS3 venture between Sony and Toshiba indicates that Toshiba now has switched to backing the PS3 almost exclusively, another victory for Sony. --------------------------------------------------------------------

02-24-2008, 05:39 AM	#15
fronn Expert Member Member since:Sep 2007 Location:St. Paul, Minnesota Blu-ray collection:- DVD collection:- Blu-ray reviews:1	Companies work together on some fronts while fighting each other on others. This really didn't have anything to do with Blu-ray or HD DVD. It's about Sony slowly pulling themselves out of semiconductor manufacturing and one of their partners in the field picking up their slack. Ever since Stringer took over Sony has been down the slow path of selling off their Semiconductor business. Toshiba is probably the best match around for them to sell it to, as Toshiba is already their partner in exactly this space (they share technologies and have at least one joint fab from my understanding). It makes sense. It's kind of dumb to see all these news places implying that HD DVD and BR have anything to do with this deal... as it would have happened regardless of HD DVD and BR's outcome -- it wasn't some kind of penance for Toshiba or anything like that. And it certainly isn't Toshiba's way of supporting BR -- they'll do it in time with their own players. While I'm not sure what any insider has mentioned about this, Max or any other insider familiar (I think Max would be at least?) with the situation will likely say the similar things about this. Last edited by fronn; 02-24-2008 at 05:42 AM.

02-24-2008, 04:36 PM	#17
Unknown27 Active Member Member since:May 2007 Trading Score:1	After HD DVD Drop, Toshiba Spends $835M to Back PS3 http://www.dailytech.com/After+HD+DV...ticle10826.htm "The other interesting aspect of the move is that it indicates a clear shift by Toshiba to back the PS3. The PS3, which last month outsold Microsoft's Xbox 360, previously had few ties to the company; while Microsoft's number one ally in hardware manufacturing has always been Toshiba. Toshiba manufacturers several components for the Xbox 360, including the HD DVD add-on, and the Microsoft Zune MP3 players. Toshiba's flip-flop may have been in the cards for a while. Microsoft showed little remose as HD DVD took second place to Blu-ray; a move Toshiba must have recognized from its American ally. Now the solidified PS3 venture between Sony and Toshiba indicates that Toshiba now has switched to backing the PS3 almost exclusively, another victory for Sony." Crazy stuff...

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02-23-2008, 10:46 PM	#3
Blu Titan Super Moderator Top ranked HT gallery Top contributor Member since:Jul 2007 Location:Edo, Land of the Samurai Home Theater Gallery:42 4K collection:41 Blu-ray collection:2864 Blu-ray reviews: 2 Trading Score:92	It was expected that they were going to supply the PS3 with the cell processor. It would be crazy for Sony to sell the chip manufacturing plants without assuring of a continued supply. I really don't see this as a BIG announcement.

02-23-2008, 11:11 PM	#4
181 Active Member Member since:Dec 2007	the Cell processor was jointly developed by sony, toshiba and ibm.

02-23-2008, 11:13 PM	#5
JasonR Super Moderator Top contributor Member since:Nov 2007 Trading Score:12	https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=330

02-24-2008, 12:49 AM	#7
mightypen Banned Member since:Jan 2008 Blu-ray collection:46	Say hello to cognitive dissonance.

02-24-2008, 01:22 AM	#8
Bobby Henderson Power Member Member since:Jan 2008 Location:Oklahoma Blu-ray collection:96 Blu-ray reviews: 12	It would be kind of a funny thing if Toshiba ended up making new Blu-ray Disc players driven by a Cell processor. That could really get Microsoft's goat.

02-24-2008, 01:31 AM	#9
MotionBlurr Active Member Member since:Oct 2007	Toshiba made cell processors with Sony and IBM like 3 years ago. Why is everyone finding out about this now?

02-24-2008, 01:37 AM	#10
BTBuck1 Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Jun 2006 Location:Oceanside, CA. Blu-ray collection:507 DVD collection:1	good times! If ya can't beat em, join em!

02-24-2008, 01:40 AM	#12
Lord_Stewie Blu-ray Baron Member since:May 2007 Blu-ray collection:396 Blu-ray reviews:1 Trading Score:1	It is a logical outcome, since the crazy stunt they pulled off with HDDUD.

02-24-2008, 04:38 AM	#13
crystal_sun Blu-ray Samurai Top contributor Member since:Sep 2007 Home Theater Gallery:9 Blu-ray collection:43 Blu-ray reviews:4 Trading Score:13	Didn't Toshiba said they won't be making blu-ray players?

02-24-2008, 04:42 AM	#14
Slackr89 Special Member Member since:Jan 2007 Location:Edmonton, Alberta PSN: Slackr Blu-ray collection:116 Trading Score:2	lol. money, money, money, money .....MONEY!!!

02-24-2008, 07:09 AM	#16
WickyWoo Blu-ray Champion Member since:May 2007 Trading Score:2	Toshiba has been a co-investor in the Cell from the beginning, and they're going to be using it in their own devices coming out later this eyar So this is not Toshiba backing Blu or the PS3, simply investing in their own businessand seeing a good profit center in teh constant income from PS3s and other sony products using Cell

02-24-2008, 09:16 PM	#20
radagast Blu-ray Samurai Member since:May 2007 Location:Indianapolis	This story has been out for a while. And as another said, the Cell chip was developed by Sony, IBM, and Toshiba.

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