Former Warner Chief Blu-ray Warning - Blu-ray Forum

mmmhome · 12-08-2005, 01:33 PM

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?op...=1824&Itemid=2

Alex Pallas · 12-08-2005, 03:00 PM

i particularly like this part:
'Samurai' Sony

He said, "If you ever read 'The Art of War,' you will see all of Sony's moves, including taking all its enemies in the same tent and then leaving them empty-handed. These are things that they have done historically."

except Sun Tsu was Chinese

zombie · 12-08-2005, 06:28 PM

Talk about sour grapes. Loved this line:

Quote:

They compete like samurai. It isn't the way we compete in the West."

Sony is a Japanese company and thus not from the West, why should they have to play by our so-called rules?

Sony1 · 12-08-2005, 07:42 PM

Because my friend in the west, the consumer rules the tent. Not the tent ruling the consumer! I do agree on one thing, and that is the fight might not be between blue-ray and HD-DVD, the fight is between Xbox and Playstation! If an HD DVD player were in the Xbox when it first came out Blue-ray would be in trouble. However now that Xbox is out whithout HD-DVD everyone is waiting on Playstation and Blue-ray! Just my opinion

thunderhawk · 12-08-2005, 08:29 PM

Quote:

everyone is waiting on Playstation and Blue-ray!

Maybe not everyone... But M$ certainly missed a lot of people who want to buy a console for next-gen format support

Sony took those now

Patrick · 12-08-2005, 11:44 PM

"Hollywood blew it. They got duped. They could have created the format that optimized their creative interests. It looks like we lost, because there are six studios supporting Blu-ray and only three supporting HD-DVD. But you know, there's always surprises."

I dont think anybody got duped. The Studios and Companies arent stupid, they know whats going on. Sony was smart to add Blu-ray to the Ps3, they would have been stupid not to. They put Blu-ray in PS3 to help Blu-ray win just as much as they put the PS3 in Blu-ray to help PS3 win. What company wouldnt? If Microsoft owned HD-dvd, it would be in the 360, the main reason it isnt is due to the fact that MS knows Blu-ray will win and they can just add it later instead of Hd-dvd. It makes me mad that this guy would say that. I think its just a smart move on Sony's part. I really hope know one takes that nut seriously.

thunderhawk · 12-09-2005, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick

They put Blu-ray in PS3 to help Blu-ray win just as much as they put the PS3 in Blu-ray to help PS3 win. What company wouldnt? If Microsoft owned HD-dvd, it would be in the 360

Sony has a big share in Blu-ray, just like M$ has a big share in HD DVD. That's why they've put it in Xbox360 right? Oh wait... M$ DIDN'T put HD DVD into its console...

So... lol

Marwin · 12-09-2005, 01:53 PM

Quote:

"If I put Blu-ray in PlayStation and I don't license it to Microsoft for Xbox and I get all the studios to only publish in PlayStation, I'll beat Microsoft in the next-generation games market. We've been sucked into PlayStation versus Xbox."

This is pure BS, I'm sure that Microsoft would be more than welcome to add Blu-ray support to their Xbox 360. The choice to ship without Blu-ray or HD-DVD was all Microsofts and they chose to ship their console earlier instead of waiting a bit so they could include a next-generation drive.

Patrick · 12-10-2005, 04:27 AM

I have never heard or read anything that says MS has a share in HD-dvd they only support it in the news. They arent even on the HD-dvd board.

Blue · 12-10-2005, 01:16 PM

Some companies may not have backed Blu Ray for various reasons, and I'm sure there will be plenty of dummy spiting over the next few months, but by this time next year MS will be releasing their new O/S (with Blu Ray Support) Toshiba will be releasing Laptops with Blu Ray drives and they will all be off on their next conquest with Blu Ray long forgotten. I suspect the media centre maybe the new battle ground.

Patrick · 12-11-2005, 12:13 AM

Found this article and it gives more info on this guy and gives what his reasons may be for saying what he did. Edited it to make it shorter since it repeated what you have already read.

"Opening up a long-sidestepped debate on the tactics employed by Japanese companies compared to those in the West, he continued, “If you have ever read The Art of War, you will see all of Sony's moves, including that of taking all its enemies into a single tent and then leaving them empty-handed.

The speech has sent shockwaves through the video industry with a similar battle to that between VHS and Betamax now rearing its head. “Hollywood blew it and they got duped,” continued an enraged Lieberfarb to a stunned audience. “They could have created the format that optimized their creative interests. It looks like we lost, because there are six studios supporting Blu-Ray and only three supporting HD-DVD. But you know, there's always surprises.”

Of course, one must ask why Lieberfarb is so impassioned, so anti-Sony. Put simply, his consultancy is a key proponent working with Microsoft on the HD-DVD format, a fact some games industry reporters completely missed. They also missed the fact that Lieberfarb left his role at Warners in 2002 and missed, well... loads of stuff. But there you go.

“Convergence is here. Everything is digital. The Internet is going to deliver video and you are going to want to pass information from one device to another and HD-DVD versus Blu-Ray is really the first battle in the issue of who controls the home.” Convergence being a key word, especially given Paul Campbell, Director, Business Development, Media Entertainment Technology Convergence Group at Microsoft Corporation, is a known associate of Lieberfarb’s. Indeed, Lieberfarb made a presentation to Paul Campbell back in December of 2004 at the Caltech/MIT Enterprise Forum, entitled Entrepreneurial Opportunities in Entertainment, another point of consideration widely missed.

Of course, the sensational nature of Lieberfarb’s coments were too much to resist for many ‘journalists’ simply copying one another in a frenzy without checking - checking anything at all really, with the prize for most worthy journalistic performance again heading to a certain writer at a certain games industry business site.

So, what are we to make of the former Warners man’s anger at Sony? Simply that he seems frustrated to have lost the battle and is now crying "Foul".

Seems like a good explanation to me. Heres the website http://spong.com/detail/news.asp?prid=9381&cb=0.9989392

thunderhawk · 12-11-2005, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick

I have never heard or read anything that says MS has a share in HD-dvd they only support it in the news. They arent even on the HD-dvd board.

Oops, true. Sorry...

Alex Pallas · 12-12-2005, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thunderhawk

Oops, true. Sorry...

...more like m$$$ is being bribed by hd-dvd

Shadowself · 12-12-2005, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick

I have never heard or read anything that says MS has a share in HD-dvd they only support it in the news. They arent even on the HD-dvd board.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thunderhawk

Oops, true. Sorry...

The issue for Microsoft is royalties on iHD, Microsoft's software to control the user interface and search/navigation capabilities of the player.

Currently iHD is the standard on HD DVD. Blu-ray has picked a java based system as its standard. If HD DVD becomes the standard then Microsoft will get a royalty every time someone buys a HD DVD player and every time someone encodes a HD DVD disk. If Blu-ray becomes the standard and does not pick up iHD then Microsoft gets nothing. The difference could be billions of dollars to Microsoft.

Microsoft is most certainly doing some very intense arm twisting in the background to try to either 1) get HD DVD going again (such as with public statements by ex-Warner execs) or 2) get iHD included on Blu-ray (such as HP "demanding" Blu-ray support iHD or HP will pull its support for Blu-ray).

This is just a backroom (and less public) version of all the strong arm tactics which lead to both of the anti-trust cases against Microsoft. (Yes, there were two -- first one settled before going to trial, both ended with "we promise to never do it again" as the only real "punishment"). The very thinly veiled threat is "Put iHD on your system and we'll support it in Vista (and maybe provide drivers for XP too) giving you instant access to hundreds of millions of PCs. If you don't put iHD on your disks, you can forget built in Vista (or XP) support."

Seems like Microsoft's promise to never do it again is just as hollow the second time around as it was the first time around.

thunderhawk · 12-13-2005, 10:08 AM

If M$ won't support the drivers, Sun will support the drivers

and all you'll need on your system is a Java console. Almost every computer connected to the internet (web pages sometimes use Java) has such a console.

And if they get rejected, they'll be emulated, but it'll never get that far I believe.

Shadowself · 12-13-2005, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thunderhawk

If M$ won't support the drivers, Sun will support the drivers

and all you'll need on your system is a Java console. Almost every computer connected to the internet (web pages sometimes use Java) has such a console.

And if they get rejected, they'll be emulated, but it'll never get that far I believe.

Quite true, but...
Microsoft could break any console "accidentally" with each and every significant patch release to Vista and XP. It would be their bottom line of control of what runs on Windows.

I doubt this scenario will happen though. Even if iHD does not get picked up by Blu-ray and Blu-ray wins the format war (which I expect) then I expect M$ to support Blu-ray as much as possible. But who knows. M$ has done stupid things before and probably will again.

thunderhawk · 12-13-2005, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowself

M$ has done stupid things before and probably will again.

Yeah... Quite true... -_-"

AV_Integrated · 12-22-2005, 07:31 AM

As I sit and think about the X-Box 360 there is a troubling thought in my head...

Yes, the game console doesn't natively support internal HD-DVD, but why not networked over your home to a PC drive? Since it definitely is designed to be on your home network and PC based HD-DVD players will undoubtedly cost less than stand alone videophile grade players, I'm not sure that M$ isn't just waiting to give full HD support to all their systems through your home network. The games do NOT need the HD-DVD capabilities, but the player, already connected to 100,000 televisions with HD support is ready and waitng for HD content to be streamed to it, and there is no question that M$ designed the 360 from the ground up as a serious networking media center. Add MMC and it becomes easy to play any HD movie directly on your 360 with a far less expensive drive.

Meh - Give me my PS3 please.

12-08-2005, 01:33 PM	#1
mmmhome Active Member Member since:Oct 2003 Location:Germany	Former Warner Chief Blu-ray Warning http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?op...=1824&Itemid=2

12-08-2005, 07:42 PM	#4
Sony1 Banned Member since:Nov 2005	In the West. Because my friend in the west, the consumer rules the tent. Not the tent ruling the consumer! I do agree on one thing, and that is the fight might not be between blue-ray and HD-DVD, the fight is between Xbox and Playstation! If an HD DVD player were in the Xbox when it first came out Blue-ray would be in trouble. However now that Xbox is out whithout HD-DVD everyone is waiting on Playstation and Blue-ray! Just my opinion

12-08-2005, 11:44 PM	#6
Patrick Member Member since:Sep 2005	"Hollywood blew it. They got duped. They could have created the format that optimized their creative interests. It looks like we lost, because there are six studios supporting Blu-ray and only three supporting HD-DVD. But you know, there's always surprises." I dont think anybody got duped. The Studios and Companies arent stupid, they know whats going on. Sony was smart to add Blu-ray to the Ps3, they would have been stupid not to. They put Blu-ray in PS3 to help Blu-ray win just as much as they put the PS3 in Blu-ray to help PS3 win. What company wouldnt? If Microsoft owned HD-dvd, it would be in the 360, the main reason it isnt is due to the fact that MS knows Blu-ray will win and they can just add it later instead of Hd-dvd. It makes me mad that this guy would say that. I think its just a smart move on Sony's part. I really hope know one takes that nut seriously. Last edited by Patrick; 12-08-2005 at 11:47 PM.

12-11-2005, 12:13 AM	#11
Patrick Member Member since:Sep 2005	Failure of HD-DVD with Hollywood frustrates – journalists shame selves. Found this article and it gives more info on this guy and gives what his reasons may be for saying what he did. Edited it to make it shorter since it repeated what you have already read. "Opening up a long-sidestepped debate on the tactics employed by Japanese companies compared to those in the West, he continued, “If you have ever read The Art of War, you will see all of Sony's moves, including that of taking all its enemies into a single tent and then leaving them empty-handed. The speech has sent shockwaves through the video industry with a similar battle to that between VHS and Betamax now rearing its head. “Hollywood blew it and they got duped,” continued an enraged Lieberfarb to a stunned audience. “They could have created the format that optimized their creative interests. It looks like we lost, because there are six studios supporting Blu-Ray and only three supporting HD-DVD. But you know, there's always surprises.” Of course, one must ask why Lieberfarb is so impassioned, so anti-Sony. Put simply, his consultancy is a key proponent working with Microsoft on the HD-DVD format, a fact some games industry reporters completely missed. They also missed the fact that Lieberfarb left his role at Warners in 2002 and missed, well... loads of stuff. But there you go. “Convergence is here. Everything is digital. The Internet is going to deliver video and you are going to want to pass information from one device to another and HD-DVD versus Blu-Ray is really the first battle in the issue of who controls the home.” Convergence being a key word, especially given Paul Campbell, Director, Business Development, Media Entertainment Technology Convergence Group at Microsoft Corporation, is a known associate of Lieberfarb’s. Indeed, Lieberfarb made a presentation to Paul Campbell back in December of 2004 at the Caltech/MIT Enterprise Forum, entitled Entrepreneurial Opportunities in Entertainment, another point of consideration widely missed. Of course, the sensational nature of Lieberfarb’s coments were too much to resist for many ‘journalists’ simply copying one another in a frenzy without checking - checking anything at all really, with the prize for most worthy journalistic performance again heading to a certain writer at a certain games industry business site. So, what are we to make of the former Warners man’s anger at Sony? Simply that he seems frustrated to have lost the battle and is now crying "Foul". Seems like a good explanation to me. Heres the website http://spong.com/detail/news.asp?prid=9381&cb=0.9989392 Last edited by Patrick; 12-11-2005 at 12:19 AM.

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12-08-2005, 03:00 PM	#2
Alex Pallas Active Member Member since:Sep 2005 Location:The Belly Of The Beast (USA)	i particularly like this part: 'Samurai' Sony He said, "If you ever read 'The Art of War,' you will see all of Sony's moves, including taking all its enemies in the same tent and then leaving them empty-handed. These are things that they have done historically." except Sun Tsu was Chinese

12-10-2005, 04:27 AM	#9
Patrick Member Member since:Sep 2005	I have never heard or read anything that says MS has a share in HD-dvd they only support it in the news. They arent even on the HD-dvd board.

12-10-2005, 01:16 PM	#10
Blue Super Moderator Top contributor Member since:Jan 2005 Location:Melbourne Australia Blu-ray collection:206	Some companies may not have backed Blu Ray for various reasons, and I'm sure there will be plenty of dummy spiting over the next few months, but by this time next year MS will be releasing their new O/S (with Blu Ray Support) Toshiba will be releasing Laptops with Blu Ray drives and they will all be off on their next conquest with Blu Ray long forgotten. I suspect the media centre maybe the new battle ground.

12-13-2005, 10:08 AM	#15
thunderhawk Moderator Member since:Jul 2004 Location:Belgium	If M$ won't support the drivers, Sun will support the drivers and all you'll need on your system is a Java console. Almost every computer connected to the internet (web pages sometimes use Java) has such a console. And if they get rejected, they'll be emulated, but it'll never get that far I believe.

12-22-2005, 07:31 AM	#18
AV_Integrated Senior Member Member since:Jan 2005	As I sit and think about the X-Box 360 there is a troubling thought in my head... Yes, the game console doesn't natively support internal HD-DVD, but why not networked over your home to a PC drive? Since it definitely is designed to be on your home network and PC based HD-DVD players will undoubtedly cost less than stand alone videophile grade players, I'm not sure that M$ isn't just waiting to give full HD support to all their systems through your home network. The games do NOT need the HD-DVD capabilities, but the player, already connected to 100,000 televisions with HD support is ready and waitng for HD content to be streamed to it, and there is no question that M$ designed the 360 from the ground up as a serious networking media center. Add MMC and it becomes easy to play any HD movie directly on your 360 with a far less expensive drive. Meh - Give me my PS3 please.

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