HD-DVD: What's so bad about it?

[Solar Driftwood]

I realise that this may become a heated thread. I sincerely hope it doesn't...

As a newbie to HD forums, I'm a little surprised to see the level of in-fighting between supporters of Blu-ray and the supporters of HD-DVD. I realise that people will naturally be pro-the format they have adopted, and want it to win the format war, but there seems to be an unreasoning hatred from some quarters for the opposing format. What's all that about? (I should point out that this is the friendliest HD forum I've found!)

I currently own an HD-DVD player, a Toshiba HD-E1, and I have to be honest, it's a lovely bit of kit. The small number of HD-DVD discs I now own are equally impressive. Now, this does not make me break out in an irrational campaign of hate against Blu-ray... far from it. I've seen a Blu-Ray demo and think it looks superb too. So I'm going to be buying both formats (as soon as I can get hold of the Panasonic BD10a!). I'm sure I will come to prefer one format over the other (and I really don't know which at this stage), but I very much doubt that I will be wanting one format to trounce the other. Besides, the survival of both SACD and DVD-A could be a pointer that both HD formats can thrive?

So, as someone who has (at the moment) only HD-DVD, and from what I can see, it looks a fine format, what is it about Blu-ray that puts HD-DVD so much in the shade? And what is it about HD-DVD that Blu-ray fans don't like?

[FilmmakingFiasco]

A lot of people say that Blu-ray's larger capacity allows for better soundtracks through uncompressed audio. At the moment, I don't have the equipment to decode anything that isn't optical. I haven't had the chance to listen and compare. Visually, both HD-DVD and Blu-ray look the same to me. HD-DVD seems to have more natural color while Blu-ray is on the red side (this might be how my PS3 outputs too). With either, it's a preference and could be closely matched if you tweak the settings on your TV. HD-DVD systems didn't have 1080p enabled when first released (those disc are mastered in it) but that is no longer a problem.

I own the 360 HD-DVD add on and a PS3. Surprisingly, reviews have said that the console versions of high def are some of the best systems out there.

The only real complaint for HD-DVD could be for lack of support. I do lean towards blu-ray purchases because I like the info that the PS3 gives on the disc and the PS3 remote has more options on the controller than the Harmony Xbox remote I use.

The truth is, a lot of hated is just fanboyism. Disc size on HD-DVD's side might limit the quality of longer films/future releases.

For exclusives, I have Children of Men, Batman Begins, Serenity, V for Vendetta and Cinderella man on HD-DVD (some are yet to be released from Warner, Cinderella Man is available in Japan on Blu-ray.)

Even for someone who has both options available, it's tough not to choose sides. I still struggle to decide which dual format releases I should get for what system. I bought The Sopranos on Blu-ray, only to return it for the HD-DVD since it didn't have a DD 5.1 track (it did have one for uncompressed audio).

I support both and each has their own advantages/disadvantages (mostly with studio support). After several years with an HDTV and limited to no HD content anywhere, I'm just happy that Hi Def is finally here.

[Solar Driftwood]

Originally Posted by FilmmakingFiasco

After several years with an HDTV and limited to no HD content anywhere, I'm just happy that Hi Def is finally here.

Hear, hear! I couldn't agree more.

[onanie]

The heated arguments from both camps are usually in response to each other's behaviour, I'm sure. I do not think there is anything rational to "hate" about the HD DVD, as there is nothing to "hate" about the blu-ray. The real question is just which one is "better". I hope you're not complaining specifically about blu-ray supporters.

[BluFive]

Too be honest both formats are pretty kick ass.
I choose Bluray because more movies I like are gonna be exclusive to BR,HD DVD just has Universal and Weinstein exclusive.Also the specs are just alittle bit better,plus ive had/have sony tvs and my first dvd player was sony and ive had little to no real major problems.

[Chris Gerhard]

Both formats are great, period. The problem based on past history is that if we want a lot of software, we need only one. The market is small to begin with and a big percentage of the market buys neither format until there is just one. Without a installed base of hardware, software selection won't be want we want. Unless Universal goes neutral, there is no end in sight to the format war, Blu-ray can be in the lead but can't win quickly. It would likely take several years of losses for significant HD DVD participants to bow out, or take a couple of years with a huge lead for Blu-ray to look good enough for significant participants to switch. if Universal stays HD DVD exclusive, I think software sales will run about 55 - 60% Blu-ray and nothing changes, both are still around with neither doing well financially.

The silly FUD I see posted by HD DVD enthusiasts about the sky falling if Blu-ray wins annoys me to no end. It is apparently believed by them that Sony is evil and Toshiba and Microsoft first rate.

Chris

[Chris Gerhard]

I think supporting one format is best, but I bought both, although I have no plans to buy much on HD DVD. Still, if I see a great deal on HD DVD titles, particularly the Universal ones I want, I will probably buy a few more. I did just buy "The Adventures of Robin Hood" on HD DVD because I love the silly old movie and my girlfriend had never seen it. In my opinion, that is an impressive presentation on home video for a 1938 film. I am sure the DVD is good as well, and my plans were to pick up the DVD and live with it, but I found the HD DVD and will likely keep it. I don't know why it wasn't released on Blu-ray.

Chris

[Solar Driftwood]

Originally Posted by onanie

I hope you're not complaining specifically about blu-ray supporters.

Not at all. It seems to play both ways, sadly. And I should also say I've not seen much evidence of it here, which is refreshing.

[Solar Driftwood]

Originally Posted by Chris Gerhard

The silly FUD I see posted by HD DVD enthusiasts about the sky falling if Blu-ray wins annoys me to no end. It is apparently believed by them that Sony is evil and Toshiba and Microsoft first rate.

Makes a change for someone to imply that Bill Gates is not the devil incarnate, doesn't it?

[Smallville206]

Originally Posted by Chris Gerhard

Both formats are great, period. The problem based on past history is that if we want a lot of software, we need only one. The market is small to begin with and a big percentage of the market buys neither format until there is just one. Without a installed base of hardware, software selection won't be want we want. Unless Universal goes neutral, there is no end in sight to the format war, Blu-ray can be in the lead but can't win quickly. It would likely take several years of losses for significant HD DVD participants to bow out, or take a couple of years with a huge lead for Blu-ray to look good enough for significant participants to switch. if Universal stays HD DVD exclusive, I think software sales will run about 55 - 60% Blu-ray and nothing changes, both are still around with neither doing well financially.

The silly FUD I see posted by HD DVD enthusiasts about the sky falling if Blu-ray wins annoys me to no end. It is apparently believed by them that Sony is evil and Toshiba and Microsoft first rate.

Chris

What you stated is exactly what I would have written. I don't know why so many people fail to realize that as long as both are around, both are likely to fail. I love Blu ray and hope it wins out as all the statistics seem to indicate it will. However, if in some miracle HD-DVD was the victor, I would have no problems switching over though I would be shaking my head looking at all the BD's I've already purchased.
People in the HD-DVD camp seem to want to stick to the position of if HD-DVD fails they won't support Blu ray, they must not truly love watching things in HD than.

[Dave]

What is so bad about it?

Well , thats what the whole war is about. hd dvd is bad but some of its underpriced players are good for Sony haters.

Actually everything is bad for hd dvd.
It has not enough free space for the today , not to mention tomorrow movies, it has bad sound and ... everything.


See here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...php?p=10176051

This will give some more basic idea of the "Whats so bad about it" topic...

[GoldenRedux]

Well, personally, I'm not going to play the diplomat and claim that both formats are great because I don't truly believe that. The reason I chose Blu-ray and the reason I want HD DVD to fail is because of the undeniable technical superiority of the Blu-ray format, there is no way around that. I have already seen the results of titles the have been done for the lowest common denominator (I'm looking at you Warner) and they're not pretty. Head to head, there is no way HD DVD can compete with Blu-ray. Period. If both formats are using the same audio and video codecs, then it stands to reason that higher capacity & higher bandwidth = higher quality. Anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves. HD DVD has already been maxed out. It's a format that never should have seen the light of day, and it's being around is not only crippling the HD market, but also crippling the quality of the HD product that is available to us as the consumer.

[elwaylite]

I am new to it all, I went with Blu Ray because of it having more support and also reading the articles about why it's a superior format.

That being said, as I am currently stocking up on Blu Ray releases, I plan on buying a HDDVD player (probably in the summer when the A2 is cheap) and will start stocking up on HDDVD Universal releases. I figure this way Ill have the best of both and a better upconverter in the Toshiba.

Whichever one wins (if any) Ill have both and plenty of good movies to watch with Netflix.

[HD-Greek]

Personally i will buy HD-XE1(1080p,hdmi 1.3,5.1 analog) for some Universal movies i like such us King Kong,Serenity,Doom,Children of Men,The Mummy,The Mummy Returns and some others...................of course i already own a PS3 and some Sony and Fox movies................i would be very happy if both formats would survive..................but if Uni goes format neutral hd-dvd is finished in one year..................

[elwaylite]

Thats the other reason I want to wait another 5-6 months before buying a Toshiba, I want to see if Univ. comes over to the dark side

[phloyd]

Conceptually, there are two words: Bandwidth and Capacity.

Realistically, reliability and functionality also play a significant role. Some 'features' like frame forward and jump to time code are conceptually possible but not implemented. Also it seems that Toshiba has yet to produce a player that is bug free and reliable across the board.

[jorg]

theres nothing realy abd from this war as long as its over by next year becuase its making blu-ray put out better releases but blu-rays high captivity it betters better interactivity(which wont be realy used until december) its better band with meaning high audio and video bit rates so in 10 years when 7.1 become standterd(lol can`t wait) u wil be able to hear it also the coating which is blu-ray only the coating for the disc is much better than hd dvds its harder and scratch resistent. also al p[rofile 1.2 players with internet will have to have atlest 1 gig or space meaning they can download new trailers so when u watch casino royal in 5 years it can have up to date trailers lol also there is suport there is much more exlusive suport in the blu-ray coner aposed to hd dvd there is know more movies then hd dvd aviable
http://www.dvdempire.com/index.asp?u...ite_media_id=0
also larger studios are suporting blu-ray while smaller indepented film companys tend to lean twords hd dvd anjd yes the picture quality at hd dvds best and blu-rays best are just as good as hd dvd or better

and blu-ray fans do not like hd dvd becuase blu-ray was made/developing long befor hd dvd and hd dvd was made just to go agenst blu-ray and its suporters. hd dvd fans boys hate blu-ray becuase blu-ray is a huge part of the ps3 and it is in style know it hate the ps3 and sony even tho they made the 2 most susceful game consoles of all time the playstaion and playstaion 2, there use to be alot of aurguments agenst blu-ray like bd 50s(dule layer blu-rays)were not real and were to hard to make and there was the ps3 will fail becuase of its "high" price point then there was sony contributed in making blu-ray so it will fail like beta max and such and that know one wil relay buy blu-ray(almost 3:1 sales know for blu-ray lol) then there was sony desision to use mpeg-2 at the begining poeple said it was not very good then alot of poeple said the high captivity was not needed. which is not true becuaseeven whit out hd extras hd dvds almopst all of them max out the 30 gigs while blu-ray discs are around 40 gigs(some)

[HD-Greek]

Originally Posted by jorg

and blu-ray fans do not like hd dvd becuase blu-ray was made/developing long befor hd dvd and hd dvd was made just to go agenst blu-ray and its suporters. hd dvd fans boys hate blu-ray becuase blu-ray is a huge part of the ps3 and it is in style know it hate the ps3 and sony even tho they made the 2 most susceful game consoles of all time the playstaion and playstaion 2, there use to be alot of aurguments agenst blu-ray like bd 50s(dule layer blu-rays)were not real and were to hard to make and there was the ps3 will fail becuase of its "high" price point then there was sony contributed in making blu-ray so it will fail like beta max

I think blu-ray was developing since 2002-2003 and hd-dvd since 2004.......you are right..................and of course the <famous> PS3......if it didn't have integrated blu-ray drive hd-dvd would have won the format war..........remember the sales on both formats till December 2006......and the 50GB dual layer discs are really hard to make..............Sony shipped the first ones 5-6 months ago...........

[AlexKx]

Thank you for your intellegence and response Jorg. I agree AND as far as I am concerned the ONLY reason I accept and desperatly want Blu-Ray is SPECIFICALLY for the large amount of storage space for it. I am hell bent for box sets of movies and music to be on as few discs as possible even though I know their prices will still be the same. AND I am hell bent on the ENTIRE music industry having space on their discs for unreleased material such as demos, outtakes, instrumentals, old audio and film interviews, new filmed intereviews with all involved, making ofs, recording ofs, documentaries, on and on. There is so much I would like to collect throughout the decades and the less shelf space they take the better though I am all up for somewhat large packaging on some things! I also understand that Blu-Ray discs are far less scratch resistant and should last much longer than HD DVDs...is this not true people?

[Blackraven]

HD-DVD was winning as of last year. An early launch, the release of the cheapest HD-DVD player (the MS Xbox 360 add-on) and cheaper prices at the start indeed pushed HD-DVD to a heavy start.

However things do change fast....

Enter 2007 and boom, Blu-ray came back with a heavy vengeance. Content heavily-favored Blu-ray 2:1 and with the release of Casino Royale & the launch of the PS3 in PAL teritorries, the number instantly became 3:1 and is poised to make HD-DVD bleed this year.

In this format war between two rival formats, there is only one RULE that you need to achieve success: Content is KING!!!

Also, with MS not releasing an internal HD-DVD add-on for the XBOX 360 during launch (and during the release of the 'Elite' version) just accelerates the fall of HD-DVD.

Talk about support when you need it