AACS issues & limitations

[speleofool]

First, let me say THANK YOU for this forum. It's nice to have a place to voice my concerns.

I have been eagerly anticipating HD movies for quite some time and have been following the news for both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray. Along the way I found a web site that concerned me greatly. It spells out several major DRM issues with the Advanced Access Content System--the copy-protection scheme used by both BD and HD-DVD. That site is here:
http://www.dvdsite.org/faq.html

One of these limitations, "image constraint," is already spelled out in another thread ("Analogue"), so I won't comment on that here. However, I have yet to see anyone address the issue of key revocation (item #2 on the above web page). It seems AACS has the ability to revoke any encryption keys that have been compromised, rendering discs or players that use those keys useless. CSS (the DVD copy-protection scheme) was cracked, and I have no reason to think that AACS might not be compromised as well. My question is, if that happens, how do I know I'm not going to be stuck with a bunch of coasters or a dead player???

Cheers!
Speleo.

[georgir]

the revokation of titles will never work - players that did update their "revocatin lists" can just be flashed into their original state, purging any revocations.

revokation of compromised players will work only for newly published media ofcourse (so your player can still play your older discs fine). i know that's not too comforting, but at least it doesnt make your player 100% unusable. also, once players start being hacked, im sure the whole protection system will be compromised to such a high degree that it'd just be abandoned by the studios. even if they insist on it and blacklist every known player out there.... you'll just play their content in the pirate's way. don't worry.

truth be told, i heared about key revocations in regards to HDCP before, but not AACS. flaws in HDCP have already been found, making it next to useless anyway. i wouldn't bet AACS will last much longer. and maybe the two types of keys (AACS/HDCP) are the same thing... i admit to not understand this topic much.

[speleofool]

the revokation of titles will never work - players that did update their "revocation lists" can just be flashed into their original state, purging any revocations.

I wish that were true, but there are DVD players / DVD-ROMs today that claim you can only update the region code so many times after which your selection will be permanent. I've read that this cannot even be reset by the manufacturer! In any case, there are ways to permanently disable hardware, and for such an obvious hole in their security scheme I'd be concerned to plunk down my cash without an OFFICIAL WORD from the creators of AACS or manufacturers of a player assuring me I won't end up with a dud player.

The other problem is *how* do you flash your player back to life? There has to be some interface to do so. You're not going to be able to stick a paperclip into the back of the machine & make everything better. At best, this is going to be an hassle to the consumer, and at worst it may not be an available solution.

Cheers!
Speleo.

P.S. Key revocations for AACS are real. There are some high-level specs available online at: http://www.aacsla.com/specifications/

[georgir]

for computer drives, i've not heared about a case where a reflash of the firmware wouldnt reset the region counter. i've not really looked about it though.

for standalone players, i can think about two ways to flash firmware - a paperclip may be useful, yes, for unplugging the flash chip in order to stick it in a programator but yeah, thats the oldschool way... now i expect a player to have a well-documented description... you just insert a cd with a certain file on it for upgrading the firmware, and there is a good chance that'd also reset any settings and blacklists.

even when no ways for reflashing are available, resetting settings to the factory defaults may be available... factories themselves have these "backdoors", even if they aren't always described in the manual, the service papers of the model should have a mention of them. be it certain key combination held on poweron, some holes you need to stick a stick into, or again a special file on a custom-recorded disk....
depending on what kind of memory the player uses, i guess unplugging the power and removing some internal battery might also do the trick... or holding a magnet near certain chip inside? (lol, don't try the last one)

well ok, indeed there is no truly universal solution, like my words might have implied in my first post. but then again, there is not even a universal problem yet we'll have to wait and see how things actually end up being done.

[thunderhawk]

Pff... If there will be only one way to get around some things, and if you'll have to mess with the player for it, I want to try it. On one condition... A good tutorial site and some good resources...