Blu-ray speed

[imgod22222]

I've seen how things like the dual layer are going to be 50GB worth of data, right? So, let's say I were to buy the first blu-ray drive on the market. How long would it take to burn 50GB of data onto the disc? How much RPM will these drives have? How many kbps or mbps will 1x be, and what will be the fastest speed? Why don't they just make a blu-ray drive that can fit like 3 discs in it at a time and use that like a hard drive? Since they'll be making multiple layers the storage on one disc could be nearly infinite! and just keep the discs like platters that can be removed and never fragmented? This just got me wondering... Are they going to make like BD-RAMs or BD-RWs? And what would the interface be for these drives? SATAII sounds like it would be best, since it's the fastest and will eventually become outdated. Because IDE has always been a pain since the connectors on the mobo and drive are so ridiculously big compared to SATA. Even though people are slowly trying to buy things to fill up their PCIE slots, i don't think it would be a good interface for a disk drive since there will be an annoying wire from the back of the computer to the front inside the case reducing airflow.
...
Sorry, i think i've been ranting on and on. I'll stop now. Please answer above questions, someone.

[Marwin]

According to the Blu-ray Disc specification 1x speed is defined as 36Mbps (4.5MB/s) and the first-generation drives that have been announced so far support 2x read/write speed. At 2x speed it should take about 1 hour and 30 minutes to burn 50GB. From what I've read there should be 4x drives on the market in 2007, which should cut the time in half. If we assume that the upper limit for disc rotation speed is 10,000 RPM then 12x speed at the outer diameter should be possible in the future. When it comes to adding more layers, it will take some time for them to get media with more layers ready for mass-production, but they are working on 4 layers (100GB) for 2007. Finally, re-writeable discs are now called BD-RE for re-recordable.

[Marwin]

When it comes to IDE vs SATA it's up to each manufacturer to choose what they want to use. The following is a summary of what I've read about the first-generation drives so far:

BenQ BW1000 (SATA)
LG GBW-H10N (?)
Panasonic SW-5582 (IDE)
Philips SPD7000 (SATA)
Pioneer BDR-101A (IDE)
Samsung SH-B022 (IDE)
Sony BWU-100A (?)

Please note that this information is subject to change before the release of the drives.

[imgod22222]

Dang! Is my question so confusing that only an admin can answer? O.O
You're making it sould like mid to late 2007 is THE TIME to get everything BD. But if things like BD can bump the speed from 2x speed when it first comes out soon to 12x, do you think we'd be able to expect an increase on the speed of DVD burning? Also, much like DVD DL burning, which burns at 6x (i think) compared to single-layer DVDs burning at 12x (i think). Wouldn't single layer then take 30min, dual 160, tri(if they make it) more, and quad an insane amount of time; not only because of all the more data to burn to disc, but also because multilayered burning is slower?
And now, even if this is talk about just media: what's the beams thickness for each generation of disk?
CD = something microns i think
DVD = Some less microns i think
HD DVD= Same as BD i think
BD= same as HD DVD i think

Also, i think i'm brain-dead this morning.mbps = megabits per second and mb/s = megabytes per second?
*grumbles* i thought they were interchangeable until now.
-end anger-

[Marwin]

I think the others just prefer discussing movies and players instead of technical facts about the format

I have no idea if when they add more layers the speed will lag behind single-layer/dual-layer, but at least single-layer and dual-layer seem to be at the same speed to begin with which is promising. I think 4x speed should be easier to fix than qual-layers, so you will probably see that in the second-generation drives whenever they are launched (early 2007?).

The track pitch in microns for the formats are:
CD = 1.6µm
DVD = 0.74µm
HD-DVD = 0.40µm
Blu-ray = 0.32µm

Please note the difference in case of the letter "B" as it denotes either bits or bytes, this is how the units relate:
Mbps = Mb/s = megabits / second
MBps = MB/s = megabytes / second
8Mbps = 1MB/s (8 bits in a byte)

[imgod22222]

And if I can properly recall
the fastest speed you can READ data off a DVD is 9MB/s.
Now talking about reading speed for BDs, exactly how fast can I expect that to be?
I mean... we HAVE been talking about burning speeds this whole time... Riiiiight?

[Marwin]

The reference data rate of DVD is 11.08 Mbit/s (million bits per second). The data transfer rate of a DVD drive is often given in multiples of 1352 kB/s, which means that a drive with 16x speed designation allows a data transfer rate of 16 × 1352 = 21640 kB/s (21.13 MB/s).

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dvd

The 2x speed for BD is for both reading/writing, I have no idea if these will continue to go together or if read speeds will progress faster. Depending on when/if they achieve 12x it will look something like this:

1x = 4.5MB/s
2x = 9MB/s
4x = 18MB/s
8x = 36MB/s
12x = 54MB/s

[imgod22222]

If it's alright with you mr.admin, i'd like to ask another question irrelevant to the title of this thread. Have you heard anything about a company making a BD disc player that works in the same way a good old-fashioned CD player would work?
Carry it around in my pocket and listen to music at incredibly high quality with probably 1,000+ tracks? Eliminate the need for iPods and further expand the blu-ray market?

[zombie]

I think with BD Audio discs your wish is likely to be possible. I'd certainly be interested in having a 1000 songs on one disc to play in my car as well.

[thunderhawk]

If you take 50 MB for an audio file, ~1000 audio tracks should fit on a double layered BD. However, there's never gonna be enough storage space, so... Expect two hours of music on a single layered BD (lossless soundquality etc). However it would be nice to have 1000 mp3s on a BD and insert it in your car...
On the speeds, I'd like to refer to the comparison that has been made between BD and DVD in the PS3 thread.

[imgod22222]

50MB per audio file? How long are those files? What compression method??(If any! sounds like theres no codecs used) Let the audio players have mp3 codecs! file size is now somewhere around 10MB at max for like a 3 to 5 minute long song!
And...
How come a CD can only hold 80 min of audio when 80 min is always < 700MB
and why a DVD can only hold 120min of audio when 120 min is WAYYYYYY < 4.7GB? So instead of keeping audio discs using wave files(i think) upgrade them to use mp3 files because no matter what you're going to need a new player.

[Marwin]

I have no idea where the 50MB number comes from, but it doesn't necessarily mean that the file doesn't use any compression. If you want to offer lossless quality and more channels than stereo then you will probably need quite a bit more space.

[phloyd]

Originally Posted by Marwin

I have no idea where the 50MB number comes from, but it doesn't necessarily mean that the file doesn't use any compression. If you want to offer lossless quality and more channels than stereo then you will probably need quite a bit more space.

CD's are approximately 10 MB per minute so 50 MB would be around 5 mins of 44.1 kHz stereo uncompressed or a little less at 48 kHz 16 bit stereo.

[imgod22222]

But for a handheld disc player, not many people would need more than stereo, but having the potential for 7.1 surround sound on such a thing would sound pretty ---- nice.

Ummm phylod, would you mind explaining the differences between difference KHz and different __bit audios?

[thunderhawk]

The 50 MB was just a pure guess. MP3 files are some 5 MB average, so use a surperior audio codec, increase the bitrate and use +8 bit...

We (human beings) can hear sound waves with a frequency from 20 Hz to 20 kHz. A CD has - prerecorded - always a maximum of 44.1 kHz, most studio recordings have 96 kHz to 192 kHz installations. Now why use that high frequencies when you can't hear them? Simple, because some high tones influence the lower (the ones we can hear) ones. You can really hear the difference.

Quick comparison:
DVD Audio goes up to 192 kHz in stereo and up to 96 kHz in surround (5.1).
Super Audio CD goes up to 2.8224 MHz and CD goes up to 44.1 kHz as mentioned above.

About the ammount of bits or bit-depth, I don't know if this term is also used in the audio world, but it has to do with the ammount of bits used in the A/D (Analog/Digital) converter when converting the analog signal into a digital signal. I don't know exactly what the ammount of bits precisely present, but the higher the bitdepth used, the better the sound quality. (Nice article about D/A Conversions and an explanation for the bitdepth: http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/question620.htm)
That's why some of the first CD players (using 1 bit D/A converters) couldn't play some of the latter CDs that used a higher bitdepth. That's also why a DVD player is suited for CD playback. Most DVD players have a 24 bit D/A converter and support 48 and sometimes 96 kHz decoding.

That should help. By the way.. We're getting off-topic here so...

[imgod22222]

we are getting off topic. But thanx for teaching the different audio values. Thnx evry1 4 ur input. Let's close this thread and go on.

[zombie]

Closed as requested by thread originator.