LCDs and Plasmas

[JasonR]

For me, I chose LCD because of the underlying fear of burn-in. I know it is said to not be a problem anymore, but I could not justify a 2000 dollar purchase with that thought in the back of my mind. I knew plasma had a better picture, but I sacraficed that for peace of mind. My corporate rep has a first gen plasma, and he said the burn-in was really bad. Even though that might not be the case any longer, that made up my mind for me. Maybe if it wasn't such a big deal to drop a couple grand I would have gone plasma, and I probably will for my next HDTV purchase.

[David Craig]

The question posted earlier was "should I buy plasma when it seems like the industry is moving towards LCD".

I had the same feeling too. Anyways I bought a Panasonic plasma because of the blacker blacks and less motion blur issues.

I have seen a bit of image retention but no image burn.

Could not be happier.

I have no experience with LCD.

One point that made me move ahead with the plasma was "even if there is some burn-in", I'll probably buy another TV in 5 years time anyways. But as I mentioned, I've seen no burn-in and the dealer had also told me that burn-in was a thing of the past.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by David Craig

The question posted earlier was "should I buy plasma when it seems like the industry is moving towards LCD".

I had the same feeling too. Anyways I bought a Panasonic plasma because of the blacker blacks and less motion blur issues.

I have seen a bit of image retention but no image burn.

Could not be happier.

I have no experience with LCD.

One point that made me move ahead with the plasma was "even if there is some burn-in", I'll probably buy another TV in 5 years time anyways. But as I mentioned, I've seen no burn-in and the dealer had also told me that burn-in was a thing of the past.

It is mostly. I've seen a little IR on some sets at some of my dealers and it was fairly minimal even though they were having the plasmas more in "showroom" mode vs. "a normal human being at home" mode.

Originally Posted by JasonR

For me, I chose LCD because of the underlying fear of burn-in. I know it is said to not be a problem anymore, but I could not justify a 2000 dollar purchase with that thought in the back of my mind. I knew plasma had a better picture, but I sacraficed that for peace of mind. My corporate rep has a first gen plasma, and he said the burn-in was really bad. Even though that might not be the case any longer, that made up my mind for me. Maybe if it wasn't such a big deal to drop a couple grand I would have gone plasma, and I probably will for my next HDTV purchase.

^^ I feel you.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by JTK

Not native though, correct? the 850u's will be native? I was a little unclear on all that. Both 800u and forthcoming 850u could be native...

The -800 and -850 will do 24p native at 48Hz, the -80 and -85 will handshake with 24p and perform 2:3 to display at 60Hz.

While I do, what sayeth you to these:
http://www.forbes.com/markets/feeds/...fx4916183.html

http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english...080425/151054/
and especially this:
http://www.topnews.in/pioneer-cut-2-...usiness-241397
^^ That doesn't exactly inspire confidence of the cartwheeling in the street variety, does it?
I see talk that the first batch of "9G pioneers" is due out at the end of the month. That'll be interesting...

The new KURO sets will definitely be awesome.

As for Panasonic and Pioneer, they're simply adjusting their business model to be more efficient so that they can continue to offer the best picture available without some massive premium. Just three years ago the 60" from Pioneer was over $10k.

Much in the same way that Sony and Samsung have panels being made in one factory, so too will Panasonic and Pioneer.

I believe LCD will go the way of the dodo before plasma does; OLED will see to that in time.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

The -800 and -850 will do 24p native at 48Hz, the -80 and -85 will handshake with 24p and perform 2:3 to display at 60Hz.

Got it.

The new KURO sets will definitely be awesome.

As for Panasonic and Pioneer, they're simply adjusting their business model to be more efficient so that they can continue to offer the best picture available without some massive premium. Just three years ago the 60" from Pioneer was over $10k.

This is all true. All of this stuff cost a hell of a lot more a few years ago on both LCD and plasma sides.

Much in the same way that Sony and Samsung have panels being made in one factory, so too will Panasonic and Pioneer.


I believe LCD will go the way of the dodo before plasma does; OLED will see to that in time.

No kidding! I daresay that's a viewpoint I don't see and hear very often out there in the "mainstream."

[BTBuck1]

I personally dont see plasma making it another 2 years.

I work with this stuff selling it every day, and the only people who want/ask for plasma's are usually immigrant types (i live in so cal you paint the picture) who just think anything flat panel is a plasma.

those with even the slightest knowlege always ask for LCD and say NO WAY JOSE on Plasma.

I'd say right now in my store LCD is outselling plasma like 75:1

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by BTBuck1

I personally dont see plasma making it another 2 years.

I work with this stuff selling it every day, and the only people who want/ask for plasma's are usually immigrant types (i live in so cal you paint the picture) who just think anything flat panel is a plasma.

those with even the slightest knowlege always ask for LCD and say NO WAY JOSE on Plasma.

I'd say right now in my store LCD is outselling plasma like 75:1

That's definitely an anomaly.
First of all, those with knowledge will always ask for plasma. Those without it, LCD.



In the 1st quarter of 2008 Panasonic, for the first time in aeons, has slipped from the #1 spot to the #3 spot, losing out to LG and Samsung.

According to Display Search global shipments of plasmas were up 53% over Q1/07.

Global plasma sales in 2007 were 11 million units.

Q1/08 sales
LG - 34.8%
Samsung - 30.5%
Panasonic - 27%
Hitachi - 4.4%
Pioneer - 3.1%
Orion - 0.1%

Plasma is 10 years old, LCD is 30.

50" plasma screens have increased in market share throughout 2007 and continue to see LCD being over 50% more in price per inch.

Sony is going to leave the LCD game as soon as they get OLED going, which will cause most people to see the market changing, even if Sharp tell people that their upcoming 2010 67" LCD's are the bee's knees.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

That's definitely an anomaly.
First of all, those with knowledge will always ask for plasma. Those without it, LCD.



In the 1st quarter of 2008 Panasonic, for the first time in aeons, has slipped from the #1 spot to the #3 spot, losing out to LG and Samsung.

According to Display Search global shipments of plasmas were up 53% over Q1/07.

Global plasma sales in 2007 were 11 million units.

Q1/08 sales
LG - 34.8%
Samsung - 30.5%
Panasonic - 27%
Hitachi - 4.4%
Pioneer - 3.1%
Orion - 0.1%

Plasma is 10 years old, LCD is 30.

50" plasma screens have increased in market share throughout 2007 and continue to see LCD being over 50% more in price per inch.

Sony is going to leave the LCD game as soon as they get OLED going, which will cause most people to see the market changing, even if Sharp tell people that their upcoming 2010 67" LCD's are the bee's knees.

^^ How do global plasma sales compare vs. global LCD sales?

[dobyblue]

To put that a little into perspective, in 2006 for the entire year:

Panasonic - 3.4 million units
LG - 1.7 million units
Samsung - 1.3 million units

Q1/08

LG - 3.8 million units
Samsung - 3.4 million units
Panasonic - 3.0 million units

Panasonic has a new factory opening up in 2009 capable of over 1 million units per month.

Samsung is seeing 10 times the grown in PDP sales in just over one year.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

To put that a little into perspective, in 2006 for the entire year:

Panasonic - 3.4 million units
LG - 1.7 million units
Samsung - 1.3 million units

Q1/08

LG - 3.8 million units
Samsung - 3.4 million units
Panasonic - 3.0 million units

Panasonic has a new factory opening up in 2009 capable of over 1 million units per month.

Samsung is seeing 10 times the grown in PDP sales in just over one year.

Ok, these are all plasma numbers. Looks good.

Now with all this said, I'd be very interested to see how all these numbers compare and contrast to the LCD side of things.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by JTK

^^ How do global plasma sales compare vs. global LCD sales?

With sizes getting down to 19" and under, no doubt they are substantially greater than plasma; 2007 saw LCD overtaking CRT globally.

LCD - 47%
CRT - 46%
Plasma/RP - 7%

Compare the 42" and up sizes only and it would be a lot closer. But SONY is still #1 (19.5% of global LCD market Q4/07) and with SONY and Toshiba both gearing up for a massive OLED push, that should ring warning bells in long-term outlooks.

[theprophecy247]

Yeh Panny 4 life

[JTK]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

With sizes getting down to 19" and under, no doubt they are substantially greater than plasma; 2007 saw LCD overtaking CRT globally.

LCD - 47%
CRT - 46%
Plasma/RP - 7%

Great scott!

Compare the 42" and up sizes only and it would be a lot closer.

Well, let's make it equal then. What's the smallest size plasma? 42 inches?

I'd be interested to see the numbers if we keep it equal like that. I suspect you're right and it's hopefully a lot closer, for plasma's sake.

But SONY is still #1 (19.5% of global LCD market Q4/07) and with SONY and Toshiba both gearing up for a massive OLED push, that should ring warning bells in long-term outlooks.

On this I agree. I do expect them to phase out of LCD once OLED starts taking off, whenever that is.

[MaleManGuy]

Originally Posted by David Craig

The question posted earlier was "should I buy plasma when it seems like the industry is moving towards LCD".

I had the same feeling too. Anyways I bought a Panasonic plasma because of the blacker blacks and less motion blur issues.

I have seen a bit of image retention but no image burn.

Could not be happier.

I have no experience with LCD.

One point that made me move ahead with the plasma was "even if there is some burn-in", I'll probably buy another TV in 5 years time anyways. But as I mentioned, I've seen no burn-in and the dealer had also told me that burn-in was a thing of the past.

Me too, no burn-in on my plasma. Also... it's not the industry that's moving to LCD... it's people who move to LCD... and then industry starts making piles more. They will both both be obsolete one day. Plasma sales are stronger than they used to be.... people are becoming aware of their strengths... not to mention plasma TV's have become much much better

[Devildog151]

http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/0...n-pioneer.html

By the way, I own a 47" LCD. As soon as I get my Stimulus i'm going plasma. You could cover all the flat panels brand on the bezel at best buy and I guarantee you i'll pick the Pioneer kuro everytime. Pioneer plasma displays are amazing and nothing else compares. LCD's are catching up but, Pioneer will always stay two steps ahead.

[gearyt]

Originally Posted by BTBuck1

I personally dont see plasma making it another 2 years.

I work with this stuff selling it every day, and the only people who want/ask for plasma's are usually immigrant types (i live in so cal you paint the picture) who just think anything flat panel is a plasma.

those with even the slightest knowlege always ask for LCD and say NO WAY JOSE on Plasma.

I'd say right now in my store LCD is outselling plasma like 75:1

WOW.... are we on different sides of the fence... Always thought I was educated and white... but I am plasma,plasma plasma.. go figure

[maygit]

I love how they have all 07 models in that list. The new 08 samsungs are so much better than the sony's. LCD's in my opinion are only better with the 120hz motion enhancer and even if i had to chose between a 120 hz lcd and a plasma, i'd be flipping a coin for the decision.

I also would like to make a comment by saying LCD's take up more energy than plasmas do(ZOMG BBQZORZ!!1!). Plasma have a maximum amount of energy usually list between 300-450 watts, however they only hit this peak amount if the screen is all white aka all pixels are being sent a maximum energy charge. No one ever watches a plan white screen and when ur not, the tv is really only using about half of it's total energy consumption(150-225) and it gets lower if u adjust the color settings. Now LCD's have a max energy amount of usually about 200-300 watts but this is never changing because the backlight is always on. So therefore the myth of plasmas consuming more energy is basically B.S. unless ur an r-tard and u watch a white screen all day.

[BTBuck1]

Originally Posted by gearyt

WOW.... are we on different sides of the fence... Always thought I was educated and white... but I am plasma,plasma plasma.. go figure

Well, people always tend to "Tout" what they have.
If you don't mind you're tv looking half as good as it did when you buy it after a couple years...thats your business, after all you are "edumacated"


And for your info, there are immigrant types that are white/fair skinned.

Maybe i should have used the term "foreigner"

but trust me, you are definately in the minority of those in favor of the plasma technology.

[My_Two_Cents]

Originally Posted by BTBuck1

Well, people always tend to "Tout" what they have.
If you don't mind you're tv looking half as good as it did when you buy it after a couple years...thats your business, after all you are "edumacated"

Please explain this comment for all of us unedumacated plasma owners. With current picture half-lives of 60K-100K hours (in torch mode), the point is moot as most folks will have replaced their display LONG before that time.

[BTBuck1]

Originally Posted by Ricshoe

Please explain this comment for all of us unedumacated plasma owners. With current picture half-lives of 60K-100K hours (in torch mode), the point is moot as most folks will have replaced their display LONG before that time.

As someone who hangs hundereds of these a year on the back wall at Best Buy, then sells them throughout the year, then hang the replacement model in place of the new one, I can say with 100% confidence that those "60,000k" Claims from the manufacturer are just that..."Claims"

Ask anyone who's owned plasmas for any length of time or anyone who works with them on a daily basis like i do.

Those statistics are BS and in favor of the MFG'r.

Granted they don't fade anywhere near as fast as the earlier models like from 95-2003, but 60k pfftt...give me a break....more like about 10-15k you will notice a clear difference between a fresh out the box one, and one that was on the wal for the previous 6-8 months. I don't know if it's at "Half life" but it's definately faded enough where the picture goes from WOW to abysmal IMHO.


Plasma half life ratings are about as ridiculous as tire wear ratings on cars. Have you ever got 60,000 miles out of a set of tires? I sure as hell havent!