Poor Reviews - Blu-ray Forum

caliminius · 06-19-2008, 02:09 PM

So am I alone in thinking that reviews of Blu-Ray discs should NOT review the movie itself? We all have our opinions about what constitutes a good movie, but audio and video quality are much more quantifiable. It's hard to argue that video is lacking because of poor detail or extreme grain.

What brought this up was looking at the review of "Stealth" briefly this morning. The "Movie" itself got 2 stars which may be about right because it was a brainless action flick. But what bothers me is that "Independence Day" is as brainless and stupid as "Stealth" yet got 4 1/2 stars. There are sections of the ID4 review that could be pasted into the "Stealth" review and you would never know that they had originally applied to a different movie.

Here's a good example from the ID4 review (with "Stealth" substituted for the one mention of "Indepence Day"):

"It's my opinion that those that find looking over the numerous plot holes in this movie too difficult, choosing instead to heap on the criticism of this movie are completely missing the point. Films such as this one aren't meant to be highbrow art. Not everything can be (nor should it be) The Discrete Charm of the Bourgeoisie, The Seventh Seal, or even Alien. Sometimes, just accepting a movie for what it is rather than tearing it apart and missing out on all the fun just does a disservice to both audience and to the film. Taken as a big, ridiculous sci-fi/action extravaganza (which it is and doesn't even try to be anything else), Stealth works like a charm. Sure, some of the plot holes are big enough for the aforementioned Godzilla to walk through, but who cares? The movie is fun, loud, entertaining, and appealing. Not everyone will see it the same way I do, and so be it. I hold no grudge against them, but I believe they're missing out on one of the all-time great popcorn movies."

To me, the review should just skip to whether it's a good Blu-Ray disc in terms of video, audio and extras.

Joe Cain · 06-19-2008, 02:14 PM

Any review of a film for content is naturally subjective; if you don't find the information valuable, ignore it.

Eternalnow · 06-19-2008, 02:15 PM

Hey, I totally hear what you are saying. It is pretty frustrating when you disagree with the film portion of the review, but thats what critics do. They present their opinion of the film as well as the pq/aq and suppliments rating. I don't see that changing any time soon because I'm sure the review actually helps some people, and for others its just an entertaining read.

I too agree that Stealth and ID4 are both garbage titles, but opinions do vary.But then again there are titles that I love which I'm sure many people would consider trash.

dgator783 · 06-19-2008, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caliminius

So am I alone in thinking that reviews of Blu-Ray discs should NOT review the movie itself? We all have our opinions about what constitutes a good movie, but audio and video quality are much more quantifiable. It's hard to argue that video is lacking because of poor detail or extreme grain.

What brought this up was looking at the review of "Stealth" briefly this morning. The "Movie" itself got 2 stars which may be about right because it was a brainless action flick. But what bothers me is that "Independence Day" is as brainless and stupid as "Stealth" yet got 4 1/2 stars. There are sections of the ID4 review that could be pasted into the "Stealth" review and you would never know that they had originally applied to a different movie.

Here's a good example from the ID4 review (with "Stealth" substituted for the one mention of "Indepence Day"):

"It's my opinion that those that find looking over the numerous plot holes in this movie too difficult, choosing instead to heap on the criticism of this movie are completely missing the point. Films such as this one aren't meant to be highbrow art. Not everything can be (nor should it be) The Discrete Charm of the Bourgeoisie, The Seventh Seal, or even Alien. Sometimes, just accepting a movie for what it is rather than tearing it apart and missing out on all the fun just does a disservice to both audience and to the film. Taken as a big, ridiculous sci-fi/action extravaganza (which it is and doesn't even try to be anything else), Stealth works like a charm. Sure, some of the plot holes are big enough for the aforementioned Godzilla to walk through, but who cares? The movie is fun, loud, entertaining, and appealing. Not everyone will see it the same way I do, and so be it. I hold no grudge against them, but I believe they're missing out on one of the all-time great popcorn movies."

To me, the review should just skip to whether it's a good Blu-Ray disc in terms of video, audio and extras.

yeah, but stealth is never entertaining....ID4 blows it out of the water, better story, better characters..and such.....I turned off Stealth cause it was terrible for me.....I agree with the reveiwer 100%....i want the movies itself reviewed because I dont want to waste 30 bucks on a crap movie with awesome picture quality

MacDaddyOJack · 06-19-2008, 02:15 PM

I think its fine, plus we have a user review section as well that shows you the overall average. I think its a nice touch, and I don't take it as exact either. Its just a review, you may very well think otherwise after you watch it, that's why so many different movies are made each year.

MacDaddyOJack · 06-19-2008, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgator783

yeah, but stealth is never entertaining....ID4 blows it out of the water, better story, better characters..and such.....I turned off Stealth cause it was terrible for me.....I agree with the reveiwer 100%....i want the movies itself reviewed because I dont want to waste 30 bucks on a crap movie with awesome picture quality

I actually prefer Stealth, but that's just me. To each his own, reviews are always a little subjective.

Stiny-Ray2 · 06-19-2008, 02:18 PM

Excellent points i personally think ID4 sucks that's why i have no intensions of getting it on Blu. I haven't seen Stealth yet but after reading the reviews, i would much rather it than the horrid ID4.

*Ahem* Note to self be leery of reviewers on this site.

kuliddar · 06-19-2008, 02:47 PM

Reviews of a film itself are usually subjective. Doesn't matter who you read it from you will never have everyone agreeing. If that part of the review is not interesting for you, then just don't look at that part of the review and disregard the rating meter. Its that simple.

Some may flame me for this but honestly I don't care; but if you buy a film just for PQ and AQ then you are not a movie fan. Of course they are part of the final product...this is BR afterall, but you wouldn't see me buy a film like Ultraviolet only because of its image quality...especially at 30$ a pop.

In the end, the combination of both, site and user reviews of a title indicates well if the product is worth a purchase on BR. I rarely do a blind purchase and it honestly saved me from paying too much for BR products such as Blood Diamonds and Hitch

Krandor · 06-19-2008, 02:48 PM

A review should help you to decide if a disk is work getting or not and I think the quality of the movie should be a factor in that review. I think it is best if a reviewer breaks out movie quality, PQ, AQ, and suppliments so that if I like a movie a reviewer doesn't I can still see what the PQ and AQ was like.

I don't want to buy a disk that is rated 5 stars to then find out it is a crappy movie.

Ferris · 06-19-2008, 02:58 PM

Are not reviews of all aspects pretty subjective? Plot, character development, picture quality, audio quality, price, etc. are all based on someone's opinion.

We've all seen reviews of films where the reviewer complains about "grain" and "steady cam" etc, where the grain was intentional, and the use of the steady cam was desired by some, and not others. For example, one reviewer (albeit the St. Pete Times here in FL) felt sick with the camera work in Bourne Supremacy. I thought it was great.

I just think that people will look for what they want in a review, and decide based on their own set of criteria.

werewuf · 06-19-2008, 03:05 PM

Quantify this:

ID4 made $817m wordwide
Stealth made 77m worldwide (it didn't even make back it's 135m production budget)

Rotten Tomatoes:
Independence Day 62% thumbs up
Stealth 13% thumbs up

Blogs are an interesting phenomenon in human history, they have become a place to disparage any subject matter right or wrong. I have seen people say any outrageous thing they want here just to say it, it's empowering, but overall anonymous potshots at established popular icons are exercises in futility, as well as being contradictory (disparaging a reviewers opinion and then giving your own? Which opinion is more valid?)
Tastes change and times change, movies that one day get great reviews, 20 years later new reviews can shift the overall standing (the original Jurassic Park got hammered in 1993 for not being enough like the best selling book, overall getting mixed reviews at the time. Todays reviews of the movie are overwhelmingly positive, even saying it's a landmark film and should stand alone from the book)

Everyone has a right to their opinion and everyones opinion is valid for them. Individuals need to understand why a particular film works for them more than others. Reviewers are human and everyone has a personal agenda, and everyone has bad days. I have seen horrible reviews from pro reviewers and you could tell that some other thing was distracting their life that day (constipation? migraine? debt? whatever) I have seen reviews where it was obvious that the reviewer didn't see the movie or concert in question. On the other hand I have seen extremely responsible professionals take their work quite seriously and consistently do a wonderful job.

For the most part I try and ask myself why I feel the way I do about a movie, sometimes the answer is simple, sometimes not. I wish to see more people drop the outrageous potshots just for the sake of being outrageous and share honest opinion in a more balanced tone.

SS316SRV · 06-19-2008, 03:10 PM

These films are not as good as The Seventh Seal, but they are ok I guess. It doesn't take much brain power to understand them. As far as action movies go I prefer Battleship Potemkin over any of these brainless flicks. Movies are supposed to be high brow, and should be made so that only the highly educated and intelligent can understand them.

In other news, the Katy Perry song, "I Kissed a Girl" is making me plan how I can make two girls kiss.

Bonifax · 06-19-2008, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgator783

I dont want to waste 30 bucks on a crap movie with awesome picture quality

I agree with you 100%... touche!

DetroitSportsFan · 06-19-2008, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caliminius

The "Movie" itself got 2 stars which may be about right because it was a brainless action flick. But what bothers me is that "Independence Day" is as brainless and stupid as "Stealth" yet got 4 1/2 stars.

This statement is an opinion, just like the opinion of a reviewer. The reviewer felt that ID4 was better than Stealth.

Personally, ID4 was much more entertaining than Stealth, in my opinion.

95pgtproject · 06-19-2008, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kuliddar

Some may flame me for this but honestly I don't care; but if you buy a film just for PQ and AQ then you are not a movie fan.

I agree with what you are saying but your not getting the point. They should only review the PQ and AQ and extras for people to see if its worth upgrading the movie from dvd to blu because there are a lot of blus that look almost the same as the dvd verson so its nice to know if one of your fav movies coming out on blu got a good transfer and upgraded audio or not. I tend to disagree on the most movie reviews but I do want to know if the blu-ray verson of a movie I like is worth the extra $$$$

aviman33 · 06-19-2008, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 95pgtproject

I agree with what you are saying but your not getting the point. They should only review the PQ and AQ and extras for people to see if its worth upgrading the movie from dvd to blu because there are a lot of blus that look almost the same as the dvd verson so its nice to know if one of your fav movies coming out on blu got a good transfer and upgraded audio or not. I tend to disagree on the most movie reviews but I do want to know if the blu-ray verson of a movie I like is worth the extra $$$$

I dissagree. 1st, your assuming that all people are simply upgrading and not 1st time buyers. And 2nd, your assuming that PQ & AQ is not also subjective.

John

Chris60119 · 06-19-2008, 03:58 PM

I'll listen to user reviews on PQ and AQ. When it comes to the actual movie I like to form my own opnion if I'm going to buy it or not.

MacDaddyOJack · 06-19-2008, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS316SRV

Movies are supposed to be high brow, and should be made so that only the highly educated and intelligent can understand them.

Why? I never have a problem understanding a movie or drawing a logical conclusion during those movies that require the viewer to do so, but on the other hand, there are times when I just want to watch a brainless flick like Rambo or Dumb and Dumber.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS316SRV

In other news, the Katy Perry song, "I Kissed a Girl" is making me plan how I can make two girls kiss.

What?

dadkins · 06-19-2008, 04:06 PM

I hate reviews.

What some reviewer may like or dislike, may be completely opposite from what you or I may like or dislike.

Stealth, while it is a fun movie, the PQ is "Less Than Stellar".
This is one of the BDs that either got a messed up transfer or the master is junk.

dadkins · 06-19-2008, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgator783

I dont want to waste 30 bucks on a crap movie with awesome picture quality

Other side of that coin... I don't want to blow $30 on a great movie that has no better PQ than a SD DVD.

06-19-2008, 02:09 PM	#1
caliminius Senior Member Member since:Aug 2007 Location:The Negative Zone Blu-ray collection:84	Poor Reviews So am I alone in thinking that reviews of Blu-Ray discs should NOT review the movie itself? We all have our opinions about what constitutes a good movie, but audio and video quality are much more quantifiable. It's hard to argue that video is lacking because of poor detail or extreme grain. What brought this up was looking at the review of "Stealth" briefly this morning. The "Movie" itself got 2 stars which may be about right because it was a brainless action flick. But what bothers me is that "Independence Day" is as brainless and stupid as "Stealth" yet got 4 1/2 stars. There are sections of the ID4 review that could be pasted into the "Stealth" review and you would never know that they had originally applied to a different movie. Here's a good example from the ID4 review (with "Stealth" substituted for the one mention of "Indepence Day"): "It's my opinion that those that find looking over the numerous plot holes in this movie too difficult, choosing instead to heap on the criticism of this movie are completely missing the point. Films such as this one aren't meant to be highbrow art. Not everything can be (nor should it be) The Discrete Charm of the Bourgeoisie, The Seventh Seal, or even Alien. Sometimes, just accepting a movie for what it is rather than tearing it apart and missing out on all the fun just does a disservice to both audience and to the film. Taken as a big, ridiculous sci-fi/action extravaganza (which it is and doesn't even try to be anything else), Stealth works like a charm. Sure, some of the plot holes are big enough for the aforementioned Godzilla to walk through, but who cares? The movie is fun, loud, entertaining, and appealing. Not everyone will see it the same way I do, and so be it. I hold no grudge against them, but I believe they're missing out on one of the all-time great popcorn movies." To me, the review should just skip to whether it's a good Blu-Ray disc in terms of video, audio and extras.

06-19-2008, 02:18 PM	#7
Stiny-Ray2 Senior Member Member since:Feb 2008 Blu-ray reviews:1	Excellent points i personally think ID4 sucks that's why i have no intensions of getting it on Blu. I haven't seen Stealth yet but after reading the reviews, i would much rather it than the horrid ID4. Ahem Note to self be leery of reviewers on this site. Last edited by Stiny-Ray2; 06-19-2008 at 02:21 PM.

06-19-2008, 03:05 PM	#11
werewuf Expert Member Member since:Jun 2007 Blu-ray collection:95 Blu-ray reviews:2	Quantify this: ID4 made $817m wordwide Stealth made 77m worldwide (it didn't even make back it's 135m production budget) Rotten Tomatoes: Independence Day 62% thumbs up Stealth 13% thumbs up Blogs are an interesting phenomenon in human history, they have become a place to disparage any subject matter right or wrong. I have seen people say any outrageous thing they want here just to say it, it's empowering, but overall anonymous potshots at established popular icons are exercises in futility, as well as being contradictory (disparaging a reviewers opinion and then giving your own? Which opinion is more valid?) Tastes change and times change, movies that one day get great reviews, 20 years later new reviews can shift the overall standing (the original Jurassic Park got hammered in 1993 for not being enough like the best selling book, overall getting mixed reviews at the time. Todays reviews of the movie are overwhelmingly positive, even saying it's a landmark film and should stand alone from the book) Everyone has a right to their opinion and everyones opinion is valid for them. Individuals need to understand why a particular film works for them more than others. Reviewers are human and everyone has a personal agenda, and everyone has bad days. I have seen horrible reviews from pro reviewers and you could tell that some other thing was distracting their life that day (constipation? migraine? debt? whatever) I have seen reviews where it was obvious that the reviewer didn't see the movie or concert in question. On the other hand I have seen extremely responsible professionals take their work quite seriously and consistently do a wonderful job. For the most part I try and ask myself why I feel the way I do about a movie, sometimes the answer is simple, sometimes not. I wish to see more people drop the outrageous potshots just for the sake of being outrageous and share honest opinion in a more balanced tone. Last edited by werewuf; 06-19-2008 at 03:12 PM.

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06-19-2008, 02:14 PM	#2
Joe Cain Power Member Member since:Sep 2007 Location:The Tragic City Blu-ray collection:79	Any review of a film for content is naturally subjective; if you don't find the information valuable, ignore it.

06-19-2008, 02:15 PM	#3
Eternalnow Active Member Member since:Mar 2008 Blu-ray collection:79 Blu-ray reviews:12	Hey, I totally hear what you are saying. It is pretty frustrating when you disagree with the film portion of the review, but thats what critics do. They present their opinion of the film as well as the pq/aq and suppliments rating. I don't see that changing any time soon because I'm sure the review actually helps some people, and for others its just an entertaining read. I too agree that Stealth and ID4 are both garbage titles, but opinions do vary.But then again there are titles that I love which I'm sure many people would consider trash.

06-19-2008, 02:15 PM	#5
MacDaddyOJack Blu-ray Guru Member since:Sep 2007 Location:Richmond, VA PSNetwork: MacDaddyOJack Trophy Level: 12(4%) Home Theater Gallery:12 Blu-ray collection:71 Blu-ray reviews:23 Trading Score:4	I think its fine, plus we have a user review section as well that shows you the overall average. I think its a nice touch, and I don't take it as exact either. Its just a review, you may very well think otherwise after you watch it, that's why so many different movies are made each year.

06-19-2008, 02:47 PM	#8
kuliddar Active Member Member since:Jan 2008 Location:Saint-Hubert, Qc 4K collection:6 Blu-ray collection:253 Blu-ray reviews: 84	Reviews of a film itself are usually subjective. Doesn't matter who you read it from you will never have everyone agreeing. If that part of the review is not interesting for you, then just don't look at that part of the review and disregard the rating meter. Its that simple. Some may flame me for this but honestly I don't care; but if you buy a film just for PQ and AQ then you are not a movie fan. Of course they are part of the final product...this is BR afterall, but you wouldn't see me buy a film like Ultraviolet only because of its image quality...especially at 30$ a pop. In the end, the combination of both, site and user reviews of a title indicates well if the product is worth a purchase on BR. I rarely do a blind purchase and it honestly saved me from paying too much for BR products such as Blood Diamonds and Hitch

06-19-2008, 02:48 PM	#9
Krandor Active Member Member since:Feb 2008 Blu-ray collection:6	A review should help you to decide if a disk is work getting or not and I think the quality of the movie should be a factor in that review. I think it is best if a reviewer breaks out movie quality, PQ, AQ, and suppliments so that if I like a movie a reviewer doesn't I can still see what the PQ and AQ was like. I don't want to buy a disk that is rated 5 stars to then find out it is a crappy movie.

06-19-2008, 02:58 PM	#10
Ferris Blu-ray Ninja Member since:Jan 2008 Location:Tampa Bay Area Blu-ray collection:79 Trading Score:1	Are not reviews of all aspects pretty subjective? Plot, character development, picture quality, audio quality, price, etc. are all based on someone's opinion. We've all seen reviews of films where the reviewer complains about "grain" and "steady cam" etc, where the grain was intentional, and the use of the steady cam was desired by some, and not others. For example, one reviewer (albeit the St. Pete Times here in FL) felt sick with the camera work in Bourne Supremacy. I thought it was great. I just think that people will look for what they want in a review, and decide based on their own set of criteria.

06-19-2008, 03:10 PM	#12
SS316SRV Blu-ray Guru Member since:Sep 2007 Location:Appleton, WI Blu-ray collection:74	These films are not as good as The Seventh Seal, but they are ok I guess. It doesn't take much brain power to understand them. As far as action movies go I prefer Battleship Potemkin over any of these brainless flicks. Movies are supposed to be high brow, and should be made so that only the highly educated and intelligent can understand them. In other news, the Katy Perry song, "I Kissed a Girl" is making me plan how I can make two girls kiss.

06-19-2008, 03:58 PM	#17
Chris60119 Blu-ray Ninja Member since:May 2008 Location:Savannah GA Blu-ray collection:850 DVD collection:1 Blu-ray reviews: 35	I'll listen to user reviews on PQ and AQ. When it comes to the actual movie I like to form my own opnion if I'm going to buy it or not.

06-19-2008, 04:06 PM	#19
dadkins Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Jan 2007 Location:Hercules, CA Blu-ray collection:35 Blu-ray reviews:2	I hate reviews. What some reviewer may like or dislike, may be completely opposite from what you or I may like or dislike. Stealth, while it is a fun movie, the PQ is "Less Than Stellar". This is one of the BDs that either got a messed up transfer or the master is junk.

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