Don't Bug Me (article on Toshiba's HD DVD player)

[zombie]

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6332337.html

excerpt:

The question confronting Toshiba is whether it makes sense to ship more of the buggy A1s if, in fact, the second-generation models remain below the horizon.

Putting more dodgy players out there carries a serious risk of creating poor consumer experiences and damaging, perhaps permanently, the reputation of the format.

Without more players, however, Toshiba has no hope of bolstering the so-far anemic studio support for HD DVD.

Similarly, other would-be HD DVD hardware makers have little incentive to accelerate their own plans if the format’s principle backer doesn’t do more on its behalf.

Toshiba’s current dilemma underscores perhaps the most damaging aspect of the high-def format war.

In the race to gain first-mover advantage in the marketplace, both sides have rushed their development cycles and are bringing—or are at risk of bringing—players to market before the respective technologies are ready.

[Sony1]

The player is just ok. This is the problem when early adopters purchase new technology, you just have to live with it. I don't mind the load times, however I do have a problem with the error codes, HDMI, and the remote. Never the less I anticipate the Blu-ray consortium will have most issues worked out with their players, but will have a minor issue here and there. It's new technology and we as consumers must expect that. At least they are getting the stuff out to the consumer.

Sony will have a major announcement today at the E3 for the PS3. I hope the price will be revealed and it is somewhere below 500.$, but who knows, we will just have to wait and see, if it is not I will wait until X-mas before I get a Blu-ray burner for my computer, hopefully the price will come down?

[JTK]

Originally Posted by Sony1

Sony will have a major announcement today at the E3 for the PS3. I hope the price will be revealed and it is somewhere below 500.$, but who knows, we will just have to wait and see, if it is not I will wait until X-mas before I get a Blu-ray burner for my computer, hopefully the price will come down?

4 PM PDT today. Don't miss it. Keep close tabs on a gaming site of your choice.

Sony needs to come out big with shock and awe today, no questions about it.

I really am hoping that they have a WORKING PS3 running and are able to show it off, running some real software.

They need to come out with concrete facts like a true MSRP price and so forth. They need to start eliminating and fighting back on the months' long Microsoft-backed propoganda,FUD and lie campaign that's been running against them.

Honest to God: I've NEVER seen such a concentrated effort made against ANY product like I've seen directed against the PS3.

Sony needs to come out with the nukes, starting today.

[GTP]

"Kill them All....and let the hd dvd fan boys sort them out

Anti Sony and PS3 rumours that is

[no_wei]

i really question how much of an advantage the "first-mover advantage" is.

look at all of the forgotten formats and technologies and ask yourself how important was it for whoever pioneered them to be the first to market. so i agree, the most important thing is to have a product that functions well. because, as much as the folks on this board might hate to hear it, the fate of a format will not be decided by early-adopters that are willing to put up with flaws and errors from technology in which they've invested thousands upon thousands of dollars.

and as far as the console market goes, i think that by the end of a generational cycle most households have multiple consoles from said generation. while people might initially pick sides, a couple of good games and price drops later any console starts to look appealing. in all honesty, what's drawing me toward ps3 and, in part, blu-ray, more than anything else is the promise of mgs4. that's it. i hear tell of possible ffvii-related games, as well, and they're also enticing, but they've already got me with mgs4. sony could have released a foot-controlled system that used recycled audio cassettes to somehow throw a blurry, monochromatic shadow onto a wall, priced it at 2000 dollars and then said: "the only thing this will ever be used for is to play metal gear solid 4," and i'd still end up with it. maybe not right at launch. but i would buy it.

/no

[JTK]

^^ It's all about the games.

And if Sony is lucky enough to have a game like MGS4 ready for the holidays? They're going to do just fine.

[thunderhawk]

You know what I'm wondering...

If the HD DVD fanboys are spreading propaganda, where's the BDA's propaganda?

[hmurchison]

You guys get enough propaganda with Andy Parson infused "Reality Distorition Field" interviews.

Frankly both formats have problems in different areas. One format would have been nice but this industry is too lucrative to allow for a cutthroat free arena.

Looking forward to June where the next half of the pie is delivered.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

You guys get enough propaganda with Andy Parson infused "Reality Distorition Field" interviews.

Frankly both formats have problems in different areas. One format would have been nice but this industry is too lucrative to allow for a cutthroat free arena.

Looking forward to June where the next half of the pie is delivered.

It doesn't happen very often, but finally you write something that isn't blatantly HD-DVD biased and BR bashing/Sony bashing for a change that just about everyone will agree with.

Yes, it will be nice to finally have all the hardware out there and see what's what.

[hmurchison]

I love Sony

[marzetta7]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

I love Sony

LOL

[hmurchison]

I've owned plenty of Sony gear. I think the lowend stuff is crap but they do many things very well.

I've also had good luck with the Toshiba stuff I've dealt with over the years.

My problem with Blu Ray stems around cost. HD-DVD meets all requirements for Hollywood without the hassle of distributing on a new format that obsoletes their current replication plants.

HD-DVD is the sensical choice but that means little when you're talking about the behind the scenes politics.

[jmental]

I agree with you. The only thing we can tell the consumer is, you have to start with something. Technology is constantly going to new heights, and to keep up they have to start somewhere.

[theknub]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

My problem with Blu Ray stems around cost. HD-DVD meets all requirements for Hollywood without the hassle of distributing on a new format that obsoletes their current replication plants.

what really is becoming obsolete? the actual burners? hd will have that cost as well. the machines to place the discs in caddies? what? really, there are very few upgrades needed to the replication plants. as of now, the only real change would be to the manufacturing plants of the media. in which case, all new technology needs to be updated. so maybe in manufacturing, we add a durabis coating step and some other new dipping/firing/whatever process. i'm no expert, so i don't know all the details. at the end of the day, this equates to what, two or three pennies per disc? we know this isn't affecting the consumer since they are paying almost exactly the same price for content (unless something has changed since i last read the pricing announcements). the more expensive cost at the moment is in the player itself. i have seen some of your posts, so i believe you may disagree with me, but the technology in the br player as well as the br discs is superior to HD. if that statement is true, it would reason to believe that superior technology will cost more. thus, a higher cost of a player. will that price come down? for sure. the bda would be stupid not to have some loss leader type of product. after all, it's not like the studios are spending more money to film a disc (unless u consider the HD mastering which hd-dvd has as well). it is the media that makes the money. you can ask every video game manufacturer this. so, yes, br is more expensive no doubt. but, it is for a better technology that you are paying for. i'd rather spend a few hundred extra on technology that works as advertised than some buggy player that has three titles and little industry support (assuming that the first br players aren't buggy of course).

[Blue]

theknub,
I think you have summed up the pricing perfectly. Although in Australia prices are higher DVD players are selling from AUS$40 to AUS$1,500. You get what you pay for. I would suggest the price of Blu Ray players will fall faster than HD as there will be much more competition. Providing there is a range of prices just with DVD providing some players are below the HD DVD price HD DVD will be in serious trouble. Although they may not appear for a number of months it will be interesting to see what some of the other companies like TEAC and Yamaha get up to as they are quite able to release consumer electronics components that are bargain basement prices whilst releasing bank breaking models at the same time.

[hmurchison]

what really is becoming obsolete? the actual burners

Pretty simple. If you buy a new HD-DVD replication line and HD-DVD dies you can still replicate DVD-9 discs. If you buy a Blu Ray line and Blu Ray dies you can't do anything else with it. I doubt that becomes a big issue but it's a feather in the cap for HD-DVD. [/quote]

but the technology in the br player as well as the br discs is superior to HD. if that statement is true, it would reason to believe that superior technology will cost more.

Blu Ray technology is superior. It holds more data and has a slightly higher bandwidth. The question is does this advantage yield improved video? That's the debatable part. I could use a ferrari for a cab in NY but is it necessarily going to get me from point A-B any faster?

I believe Blu Ray has every right to exist. I'd like to see it compete on a level playing field though. I'm a bit disheartened that partisan politics has reared its head in this arena. Let the best format win. If that's Blu Ray ..fine.

[marzetta7]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

My problem with Blu Ray stems around cost. HD-DVD meets all requirements for Hollywood without the hassle of distributing on a new format that obsoletes their current replication plants.

I think this is where you and I primarily disagree on. You keep touting cost, but you are talking about cost that the manufacturer takes on, not the consumer. Discs will be the same price for Blu-ray and HD DVD, and yes, there may be some subsidy going on behind the scenes, but again, who cares if it is going to cost us, the consumer, the same. Why do you seem so concerned about the cost to the manufacturer? As, we have seen, it wont and is not equating to a higher cost to the consumer.

Pretty simple. If you buy a new HD-DVD replication line and HD-DVD dies you can still replicate DVD-9 discs. If you buy a Blu Ray line and Blu Ray dies you can't do anything else with it. I doubt that becomes a big issue but it's a feather in the cap for HD-DVD.

Feather in the cap for the manufacturer who will be delivering a less than optimal format, and all the while increasing their profit margin by saving costs to themselves. Why is this a good thing?--A manufacturer giving us a lesser format at the same cost to the consumer as the optimal format in Blu-ray. Again, this just seems to be benefiting the manufacturer moreso than the consumer.

Blu Ray technology is superior. It holds more data and has a slightly higher bandwidth. The question is does this advantage yield improved video? That's the debatable part. I could use a ferrari for a cab in NY but is it necessarily going to get me from point A-B any faster?

True, the yielding of improved video is debatable, but at least with this current iteration of hardware, Blu-ray will be outputting to 1080P while HD DVD will be outputting 1080i. Yes, I understand that some TVs will resample it to 1080P, but from what I understand, it is a process that still isn't as pristine as a native 1080P source. Moreover, I don't think it is a question of getting to poing A-B faster, as much as it is a question of how many people I can fit into the cab and look damn good while doing it; and, at the same cost for the taxi, I'll take the Ferrari.

[theknub]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

Pretty simple. If you buy a new HD-DVD replication line and HD-DVD dies you can still replicate DVD-9 discs. If you buy a Blu Ray line and Blu Ray dies you can't do anything else with it. I doubt that becomes a big issue but it's a feather in the cap for HD-DVD.

in theory, the lines are pretty much the same. are they not? the only differences really being a few different steps here and there. from what i have read, there are modifications that need to be made to the dvd-9 lines to make br discs but nothing crazy. and as was stated, these costs are not passed on to the consumer. let the manufacturer absorb the costs and give us the better product. after all, if br does fail, they just change the line back to the way it was and start back on regular dvds.

Blu Ray technology is superior. It holds more data and has a slightly higher bandwidth. The question is does this advantage yield improved video? That's the debatable part. I could use a ferrari for a cab in NY but is it necessarily going to get me from point A-B any faster?

I believe Blu Ray has every right to exist. I'd like to see it compete on a level playing field though. I'm a bit disheartened that partisan politics has reared its head in this arena. Let the best format win. If that's Blu Ray ..fine.

that is like saying i have a pentium 4 something or other, with a quad sli, 100 terrabyte raid system blah blah blah. but, i only run dos (i hope to god you know what dos is, or this whole point is for naught) 3.2 on it. the better video is only going to be as good as what it is running on. no matter what you do, dos is still dos and you won't be able to run far cry, fear, doom3 etc on your awesome computer. in the same respect, if you are running a br player on a 1950's b&w rca set, it won't do crap for you. you need a good/great t.v. with the appropriate inputs as well as a top notch audio system to take full advantage of br or hd-dvd. assuming you have the appropriate equipment, do you want a product that is forward compatible and thinking with the next generation of t.v.'s and home theater equipment or a product that will be outdated when the next generation of t.v.'s and ht equipment hits the shelves? i know my answer.