Early Blu-rays that may have playback issues (Criterion, Well Go USA, etc.)

[MassiveMovieBuff]

Originally Posted by grahams76

Just pulled out my Lionsgate issue of King Of New York for the first time in years. It's bronzed with a few small white dots (or dots that haven't bronzed) and some rings around the centre hole. Was this disc known to be affected?

Damn. I just bought a used copy a couple of months ago so I hope I don't get any issues with it. It's fine as of right now though knock on wood.

[grahams76]

How does one post pictures here?

[Zarak]

Originally Posted by grahams76

How does one post pictures here?

You can't upload images directly, you have to link to the URL of the image, so I usually upload my photos to imgur and then link to that.

[grahams76]

First pic is of Lionsgate's King Of New York blu-ray. Note the white dots and white perfect circles around the centre.

The second image is of the same disc on the left next to a non-bronzed disc on the right.

This blu-ray has been stored in a Case Logic disc holder for almost 10 years. I live in London so there's no humidity issues. The disc holder has always been in a wardrobe.

[MassiveMovieBuff]

Yeah looks like Lionsgate disc rot to me. Those rings in the center are really bizarre. Looks like it has a disease lol.

[grahams76]

Has Lionsgate ever replaced defective discs? I've already ordered Arrow's UK (and supposedly superior) release so not that fussed.

I sent a handful of discs to Criterion in New York a few years ago to get replacements.

[TripleHBK]

Originally Posted by grahams76

Has Lionsgate ever replaced defective discs? I've already ordered Arrow's UK (and supposedly superior) release so not that fussed.

I sent a handful of discs to Criterion in New York a few years ago to get replacements.

Lionsgate has never bothered to acknowledge that discs have failed at all let alone offered replacements. The only exception was with their Wishmaster release which had included the wrong audio track. (2.0 instead of 5.1) They did replace that disc for folks that asked shortly after release.)

[grahams76]

Just tried the disc and it looks to play fine - went through each chapter. Still, in the bin it goes.

[grahams76]

Just checked other Lionsgate discs in my collection released during and before 2010.

Mad Men Season 3 is also affected. One disc almost as bad, the other two with those weird centre rings and a general bronzing.

Amazingly, I’ve just bought season 3 sealed, the U.K. version this time, on eBay for £2.55 delivered.

Still, this is highly annoying.

[neo_reloaded]

As always,

Originally Posted by neo_reloaded

What are the mould IFPI numbers on the affected discs?

[grahams76]

Originally Posted by neo_reloaded

As always,

Thanks. I’ll have to try tomorrow in daylight as it’s impossible to read under a lamp.

[fdm]

Originally Posted by grahams76

This blu-ray has been stored in a Case Logic disc holder for almost 10 years. I live in London so there's no humidity issues. The disc holder has always been in a wardrobe.

Case Logic disc holder of what sort? Plastic sleeves maybe?

With some of the Criterions that have bronzed, the discoloration is perhaps accelerated/exacerbated by the booklets, so the story goes (in this thread), something to do with the ink that was used to print them.

I also recall pictures of bronzed discs that were kept in some kind of envelope (I think it was), and you could see clear patterns of the envelope in the bronzing (also somewhere in this thread).

As for me, I keep most everything in original cases. (And some I've since removed the booklets.)

Those rings by the way, if the sleeves were plastic, is probably because the rings were always there on top of the disc surface, perhaps residue from the suction cups used to hold the disc during manufacture, so the residue may have actually protected those parts of your disc. Oh and those white spots could similarly be from dust/dirt blocking the sleeve's contact with the disc.

[MassiveMovieBuff]

Originally Posted by fdm

Oh and those white spots could similarly be from dust/dirt blocking the sleeve's contact with the disc.

I had a similar issue with my Lionsgate copy of the 2010 release for Cabin Fever unrated cut last October and I just kept that in it's original case since I bought it on it's release date.

[neo_reloaded]

I don't think there was ever any conclusion about paper booklets being in any way involved.

CD bronzing from the early 90's (mostly from the UK PDO manufacturing plant) involved the CD lacquer not being resistant to sulfur, which is present in paper. But there's no indication that BD bronzing has the same cause, and bronzing has occurred for Lionsgate and Taiwan-produced discs that do not contain booklets. The element of manufacturing that has been referenced for Blu-ray defects is frequently the 'resin', which is an internal component, not an external one like CD lacquer is.

[fdm]

Originally Posted by neo_reloaded

I don't think there was ever any conclusion about paper booklets being in any way involved.

CD bronzing from the early 90's (mostly from the UK PDO manufacturing plant) involved the CD lacquer not being resistant to sulfur, which is present in paper. But there's no indication that BD bronzing has the same cause, and bronzing has occurred for Lionsgate and Taiwan-produced discs that do not contain booklets. The element of manufacturing that has been referenced for Blu-ray defects is frequently the 'resin', which is an internal component, not an external one like CD lacquer is.

I'm not going to dig, but refer to pictures back in this thread, I recall some guy stored his BDs in an envelope of some sort, you could clearly see the envelope's pattern on his disk, so internal or not, the envelope had influence over where the disc bronzed more.

Similarly, in this thread there were references to certain booklets. Not saying the booklets were the problem, just that they potentially increase the likelihood or the speed with which bad discs discolored.

So like I said (or imagined I did), I'm not blaming the cases or the booklets for the discoloration/failure, I'm just saying that such things can make a difference in how (much) or how quickly the bad discs fail. Similarly I wouldn't be surprised if plastic sleeves do the same things, since they are in direct contact with the bad discs.

[fdm]

Originally Posted by MassiveMovieBuff

I had a similar issue with my Lionsgate copy of the 2010 release for Cabin Fever unrated cut last October and I just kept that in it's original case since I bought it on it's release date.

I haven't looked at any of my old Lionsgate discs (afraid to), but the Criterions were pretty much just discolored, no spots or rings. The hubs could be especially dark, but also the outer edges as well, and then various degrees of discoloration in between the two.

I suppose now that I finally got around to sorting my BDs out a few months ago I could go look...

[neo_reloaded]

I've seen those CD wallets leave imprints on non-bronzing discs, and the imprint fades away after awhile or can be buffed out I think. The "hardcoat" layer on Blu-ray discs reacts oddly to longterm physical contact, but is eventually reversible to the best of my knowledge.

And I think the references to "booklets" were just people going "Oh the PDO audio CD bronzing was related to booklets, so maybe this is also booklets?"

Not saying there's no chance bronzing is somehow accelerated / affected by these situations, but I've seen enough countercases that I'm skeptical.

[Albie989]

I was going to say I was concerned about my copies of Highlander and Highlander 2 plus my brother's copies of T2 and Stargate (the "Beyond High Def" release) but a thread search has cleared up my worries...or should I?

[fdm]

Ok, decided to go hunt. It popped up when I google searched "images blu-ray disc discolor". Second row, there's one with light square in the middle, and bronzed edges around the square... Image likely orignally appeared in Oct 2014 in a dvd talk thread.

But finally found the actual post I was thinking of here in this (very merged) thread from 10/5/14.



Anyway, think I'll go watch my Sanjuro disc...

[TripleHBK]

Originally Posted by MassiveMovieBuff

I had a similar issue with my Lionsgate copy of the 2010 release for Cabin Fever unrated cut last October and I just kept that in it's original case since I bought it on it's release date.

Same here. Thus far I've only had 2 lionsgate discs die on me. The first was the original Saw film which was from 2006. It had no signs at all that indicated it had gone bad... it just stopped working one day. The other film was Cabin Fever which died last year sometime as well. It had the small spots on the disc which appeared like similar to a sort of mold but inside the layers of the disc. I'm still waiting for a good price to replace that one.