Screenshot Comparisons 4K

[Mierzwiak]

I have Italian Sony disc and the movie looks just like on the screens, BUT we need to remember that comparisons like here or on caps-a-holic only exaggerate the differences. Cyan push on Sony disc or Amy's red face might look bad when put right next to Paramount screenshots, but when you actually watch the movie it's not that obvious, even if noticeable.

Just for the record, on iTunes in Dolby Vision Arrival looks like Paramount disc.

Top: iTunes Dolby Vision, bottom: Sony UHD HDR10.
[please ignore differences in contrast / shadow details, it's just my stupid camera]

[pino]

Originally Posted by andreasy969

And I really appretiate it.

No problem! For good measure, here are my crappy smartphone pictures:

[andreasy969]

Originally Posted by Mierzwiak

I have Italian Sony disc and the movie looks just like on the screens, BUT we need to remember that comparisons like here or on caps-a-holic only exaggerate the differences. Cyan push on Sony disc or Amy's red face might look bad when put right next to Paramount screenshots, but when you actually watch the movie it's not that obvious, even if noticeable.

Thanks a lot. People were driving me nuts with this. And I can also only support the bold part. A LOT of things you'll only notice when you compare directly - your memory alone will fool you.

And I just did the same thing with the reds and had the same effect:

Paramount | Sony (please just focus on the red face - that was all I cared about when taking both pictures (and it still are crappy pictures!!!) - with SDR conversion via my Panasonic player on my projector)



And I never would've thought that the difference is that big, but it is IF you compare both directly.

Which is also why I'm always very skeptical re. "what you think you saw" and that doesn't exclude myself.

[chip75]

Avengers: Endgame Blu-ray (top) to UHD Blu-ray @100nits (bottom) comparisons

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by andreasy969

I got another comment re. #46 also stating that the Sony looks as grey as Paramount.

I did both at their respective max again and the Sony remains greener with madVR (!!!).

Paramount (446 nits) | Sony (496 nits)


The Sony is clearly greener with shots way below 100 nits as well (#42 for ex). So I think the teal is real.

The problem with Arrival is, that the colour is the only thing worth talking about, but the colour is also the thing that can be a b**** with HDR. I wish Geoff had both discs to confirm the green...

Not sure what you need me for. I'll be the first person to say that SDR converted HDR never tells the full story BUT given a common methodology for capture then you can take discrepancies like these to the bank.

As for people saying one looks like the other and vice versa, unless they actually know what the colour temp of their display is reading across the greyscale in SDR and HDR, as well as being able to directly compare both versions, then I trust such comments as far as I can throw them, although Mierzwiak's photos look pretty damned good to me.

[andreasy969]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Not sure what you need me for.

I need you to post some goddamn photos of the Sony disc from a properly calibrated HDR display that show the teal and the red push as well. (even if more subtle)

I've been shown some photos of the Sony elsewhere that really made me question everything until Mierzwiak finally confirmed it.

See, I know that the SDR colours aren't accurate, but this time I thought maybe sth was completely off. So I needed some reliable backup. The best I can do is tonemap to SDR gamma up to ~750 nits and take a look at that "properly" and sth might still go wrong.

Really don't like the colour discussions... Will be picking sth else next time for sure. Maybe "Glass" - where both will just look the same.

[trekky76]

Originally Posted by andreasy969

I know those are SDR conversions but I just had a look at that frame on my Sony disc and it looks like your Paramount pic. The frame on Paramount disc looks also pretty much the same but I did notice there was little more brightness on the Sony disc. I simply do not see that pink/red push of your Sony pic. I'm sure someone more knowledgeable can explain this.

[andreasy969]

Originally Posted by trekky76

I know those are SDR conversions but I just had a look at that frame on my Sony disc and it looks like your Paramount pic.

Which I don't even doubt. See, my photos are crap (both are too red for ex and the red one looks even more off). The only thing these photos manage to show is that both discs don't look alike on the same setup (in SDR). What you would have to do is look at both the Paramount and the Sony disc and compare those on your/the same setup. Everything else is futile.

[trekky76]

Originally Posted by andreasy969

Which I don't even doubt. See, my photos are crap (both are too red for ex and the red one looks even more off). The only thing these photos manage to show is that both discs don't look alike on the same setup (in SDR). What you would have to do is look at both the Paramount and the Sony disc and compare those on your/the same setup. Everything else is futile.

That is what I did. I only have one display but from what I can see they both look pretty much the same. Mostly it's the red push I don't see at all. I would need to see them side by side perhaps. Either SDR conversion does something or it's tonemapping given that Paramount is 1000 nits and Sony is 4000. But that's just a guess.

[andreasy969]

Originally Posted by trekky76

That is what I did.

OK. I got that wrong then. Maybe take a photo of both discs as well then.

[trekky76]

Originally Posted by andreasy969

OK. I got that wrong then. Maybe take a photo of both discs as well then.

Here's two crappy pics. First one looks soft as I took it in motion. 2nd one is paused picture. 1st is Paramount, 2nd is Sony. Couldn't get the exact same frame as timer is different for them. The Sony one is actually little brighter despite these pics.

[andreasy969]

Well even there is clearly a red push. (and the Paramount should look more yellow, but photos...)

And I actually find the red push on both my UHD caps and photos/what I am seeing on the projector rather subtle as opposed to this: https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?go=1&...97674&i=10&l=0


Anyway, I did edit the comparison earlier on already, because I'm tired of the discussion and I just can't tell you how the Sony looks in HDR (EDIT: removed the comment again). All I do know is that the red on the Sony shouldn't be problematic (because it isn't very bright) and therefore shouldn't be a problem for the conversion and that I am getting red instead of yellow on both the PC and my setup in SDR in this scene. So I don't know what's going on.

Maybe Mierzwiak could do red as well. I'm out.

[trekky76]

The conversions are always tricky indeed. I usually react when I see red push (I had the Samsung player at first) but don't see it in HDR on the display. Colors are more saturated though as that is the reason why I prefer Sony's including better brightness.

[Mierzwiak]

Originally Posted by andreasy969

Maybe Mierzwiak could do red as well. I'm out.

That's a hard one, my phone camera doesn't like shots like that (poor pro mode doesn't help; thank you, Samsung!) and makes both versions worse / different than they are in real life, but yes, there's a clear difference with disc being more red than streaming:

Top: iTunes Dolby Vision, bottom: Sony UHD HDR10.




By the way, since I'm in Europe, streaming DV version also has Sony logo at the beginning.

[andreasy969]

Originally Posted by Mierzwiak

That's a hard one, my phone camera doesn't like shots like that (poor pro mode doesn't help; thank you, Samsung!) and makes both versions worse / different than they are in real life, but yes, there's a clear difference with disc being more red than streaming:

Top: iTunes Dolby Vision, bottom: Sony UHD HDR10.

[Show spoiler]

By the way, since I'm in Europe, streaming DV version also has Sony logo at the beginning.

Thanks again my friend - from here on, you are in my cool book.

[Mierzwiak]

Thanks, you're in mine for a long time

[andreasy969]

Originally Posted by chip75

Avengers: Endgame Blu-ray (top) to UHD Blu-ray @100nits (bottom) comparisons

[Show spoiler]

Very nice upgrade detail wise. Same as part 1 and makes me doubt imdb's 2K DI as well. Still waiting for mine - looking forward to it.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by andreasy969

Very nice upgrade detail wise. Same as part 1 and makes me doubt imdb's 2K DI as well. Still waiting for mine - looking forward to it.

They were both finished in 2K. This piece on the ageing of Cap makes it quite plain, they worked with >2K files but the final shots were done out to 2K: https://www.fxguide.com/fxfeatured/h...d-of-avengers/

I don't like the sharpening in Endgame but it still has a significant boost in resolution vs the BD.

[andreasy969]

Ah, I see. Thanks. Didn't keep up lately. Was busy taking photos. (EDIT: Still doubt it with the first one though - I for one can't 2K-down-/4K-upscale that one without losing actual high frequency detail - I tried)

[imhh1]

John Wick 3 2019 UHD-BD vs 1080pBD

https://slowpics.org/comparison/0f4a...e-073e7bd763eb


HDR10 vs Dolby Vision

https://slowpics.org/comparison/b32c...5-d7f12351aff5

*OLED, Black Room, Same picture settings, Tripod pictures.


madVR settings:

[Show spoiler]

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