Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by bhampton

Di$ney can kill itself trying to save money. They better already have enough though because I'm about done giving them my money.

I am down to just two, Prime and Netflix, as soon as spouse finishes her series on Netflix it will be cancelled. Will continue Prime because we order a lot from Amazon. Invested a lot into streaming hardware over the years ($2,637) and time (control codes and graphics for remote).

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Ender14

Recently added these to my collection:

Have Hugo in 3-D and consider it one of the better 3-D titles.

[bhampton]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Have Hugo in 3-D and consider it one of the better 3-D titles.

Me Too

[Vilya]

I only have three subscription streaming services: Netflix (shared account), Max (included with cell phone service), and Amazon Prime. I might actually use one of these every three months or so. Even for free Netflix almost always fails to interest me.

I have had Amazon Prime every year since its inception in 2005 and my having it has nothing to do with their streaming service which came along much later and is one of the major reasons that the cost of Prime has nearly doubled since I first joined. I wish they offered "Prime Lite" without their streaming service for a lower price as I have only ever been interested in the free shipping part of it. They can keep all of the other crap that they have attached to Prime.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

Sorry to hear Disney is exiting physical optical media in Australia and New Zealand. Streaming is so strong it is winning the format war against all optical media, including DVD, 2K Blu-ray discs, and 4K Blu-ray discs. Therefore, over the next several years more countries and studios might be announced. The sad thing is all optical disc media is being eliminated when it happens. 2K Blu-ray and 4K Blu-ray was suppose to be the replacement formats for the legacy 1997 480i DVD format, but nothing can survive the popularity of streaming which is winning the format war.

Does this mean that you're giving up on your pipe dream of there ever being an 8K optical disc format? You have a LOT of posts to edit!

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I only have three subscription streaming services: Netflix (shared account), Max (included with cell phone service), and Amazon Prime.

Wednesday was the last thing I watched on Netflix. Watch very little on Prime. Saw where Prime has added some MGM/UA titles. Checked No Time To Die and the audio was DD+ 5.1, same for Top Gun: Maverick, really . Did not check the A/V data rates.

[bhampton]

Iger is trying to tank Disney value to the point at which no one is bothered if it's salvaged by Apple.

https://geektyrant.com/news/apple-buying-the-walt-disney-company-is-apparently-a-real-possibility-according-to-analysts

[cheez avenger]

Blind bought William Friedkin's "Blue Chips" on BD for $6.99.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by cheez avenger

Blind bought William Friedkin's "Blue Chips" on BD for $6.99.

I try not to eat either the blue chips or the green ones. Mold is scary.

[Vilya]

Appearing on CNN today:

The era of cheap streaming is officially over

"We believe in the future of advertising on our streaming platforms, both Disney+ and Hulu.” -Bob Iger

"Media companies, looking to maximize profits as Wall Street grows impatient with them swimming in seas of endless red, are quickly abandoning pricing structures that pushed bottomless libraries of content to consumers at too-good-to-be-true, one-size-fits-all prices."

"Those massive libraries of content are growing more expensive (not to mention shrinking) by the year. In fact, consumers who bundle just a few streamers together in 2023 will find that the final cost is effectively the same as basic cable. Couple that reality with the introduction of ads into streaming and the end product eerily resembles on-demand cable."

"It’s an ironic end to the streaming wars. After pouring billions and billions of dollars into constructing supposedly revolutionary streaming platforms, and decimating the business models that had offered the industry stability for decades, the ultimate product looks awfully similar to what companies and consumers were trying to break free from in the first place."

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/10/media...ces/index.html

[Vilya]

Vilya's gone wild!

I've ordered 58 titles on disc this month so far! That has to be a personal record. I decided that while I'm in denial I might as well deny myself nothing!

15 of 'em arrived today:





and

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Does this mean that you're giving up on your pipe dream of there ever being an 8K optical disc format? You have a LOT of posts to edit!

Well have to see what happens. Back in 2014 Netflix started offering low bit rate 4K streams with lossy audio. As a result of that move the BDA in Feb of 2016 launched the 4K Blu-ray format.

The BDA or the DVD companies could develop a new 8K optical disc format by the year 2026+. Netflix has been using 8K digital cameras and higher for some original content. If Netflix decides to create some 8K digital intermediates as storage prices fall in price, then if Netflix and other streaming providers move to 8K in 2024-2026+ with lossless audio, then the BDA might create a new 8K Blu-ray format sometime around 2026-2028+ that uses 256 bit to 512 bit military encryption to protect the movies from being copied. Then all the new 8K Blu-ray players would be backward compatible with legacy optical media and the players would be able to upscale and downscale with output resolutions between 480i to 8K.

But its up to the Hollywood studios and Global movie studios what media they want to use to distribute movies. If the studios decide they do not want to do optical discs, cable TV , satellite TV, and only want to do 100% streaming, then consumers will be forced to switch. Some consumers will refuse to buy digital 4K versions of the movies on VUDU and Amazon and take up a new hobby. Streaming does not allow one to upgrade or sale the movie to someone else. Also if some of the lessor known streaming providers go out of business someone could lose several thousands of dollars worth of movies. Also streaming most of the time does not offer detailed extra features and so far, no audio commentaries yet.

If streaming every offers 8K quality with lossless audio and there is no physical media that offers 8K, then I would be interested in going streaming for renting and monthly unlimited Netflix streaming. But personally, I have a hard time justifying or getting use to buying movies in the cloud. I and many people would most likely just stop buying movies completely and just rent streaming movies instead if physical media disappeared.

By the way I have never subscribed to any streaming service in my entire life and I am 100% physical optical disc media. Various family members I live with does a combined 95% Direct TV with streaming (with 5% optical disc watching). And I have on special holiday occasions watched streaming with various family members and I have set streaming services up on Blu-ray players since the year 2010 and in the year 2016 on a ROKU Ultra. My ROKU Ultra is still sitting new in the box never opened. I do have Direct TV but hardly watch that anymore. But if physical media disappears I might go to 100% Direct TV or 95% Direct TV watching.

[HDTV1080P]

Physical optical disc media like Audio CD’s, DVD’s, Blu-ray discs, Blu-ray 3D, and 4K Blu-ray discs are still alive. But if in several years the world switched to 100% streaming then that would be bad for companies that review optical disc media like Widescreen Review magazine, Sound and Vision magazine, Digital Bits, and Blu-ray.com website.

Hopefully Kaleidescape that offers bit for bit 4K Blu-ray image downloads to a hard drive server will still be around. Sound and Vision Magazine has reviewed many of the movies on that system as physical media slowly decreases in demand.

[HDTV1080P]

A lot of people are going to the free streaming services with ads, but personally I do not like commercials. Some of the movie studios are losing a lot of money with some of the streaming contracts they have signed. Some studios might have to stop offering streaming completely, limit what content is offered on streaming, or renegotiate with various streaming providers in order to make a profit.

In the future some small, medium, and large studios might need to have a merger in order to survive. During mergers some departments are laid off.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

Physical optical disc media like Audio CD’s, DVD’s, Blu-ray discs, Blu-ray 3D, and 4K Blu-ray discs are still alive. But if in several years the world switched to 100% streaming then that would be bad for companies that review optical disc media like Widescreen Review magazine, Sound and Vision magazine, Digital Bits, and Blu-ray.com website.

Hopefully Kaleidescape that offers bit for bit 4K Blu-ray image download loads to a hard drive server will still be around. Sound and Vision Magazine has reviewed many of the movies on that system as physical media slowly decreases in demand.

Kaleidescape is a non-starter for almost everyone because of its ridiculous cost; if you are suggesting it as an alternative to physical media it makes for a very poor one. It has no chance of ever gaining significant penetrance into consumer's homes.

The entire system is proprietary. Kaleidescape downloads, which are chock full of DRM, only play with Kaleidescape hardware. If Kaleidescape goes under, and they have come close on more than occasion, your downloads will become useless once your Kaleidescape hardware fails. Kaleidescape is therefore similar to digital purchases and subscription streaming in that you don't really own anything with any of them. Unlike with conventional digital distribution, if Kaleiedescape fails, you would eventually be out a five figure fortune for their hardware alone.

[HDTV1080P]

Sometimes 6 figures depending how many TV's are connected and how many thousands of movies are purchased.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

The BDA or the DVD companies could develop a new 8K optical disc format by the year 2026+.

No chance it will happen without the support of the major studios and there is no such support... not even from Sony which is practically synonymous with the BDA.

There is no reason at present for streaming services to offer 8K streaming. Doing so would only increase their costs and there is practically zero demand for it. In case you haven't noticed, streaming services are looking for ways to reduce their costs, not increase them. Streaming customers have indicated time and again that their primary concern is price, not quality, which comes in way, way down their list of priorities.

8K TVs are not exactly selling in huge numbers, either.

"8K TVs only made up 0.15% of 2021’s total TV shipments. Translating this to actual numbers of units sold, we’re barely talking about 350,000 8K TV sales globally."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarc...h=5e41b62c6ead

In short:

Studios have shown no interest in an 8K physical format.

The BDA has shown no interest in it, either.

Streaming providers and their customers agree on the same top priority: costs. Customers are happy with the quality that they get now and providers are happy to save money rather than spend it on offering 8K resolution that nobody seems to want.

8K TVs are selling about as well as square tires.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

Hopefully Kaleidescape that offers bit for bit 4K Blu-ray image downloads to a hard drive server will still be around. Sound and Vision Magazine has reviewed many of the movies on that system as physical media slowly decreases in demand.

Not true, the process is quite different. Kaleidescape receives mezzanine files from which they compress to their file format. The VP of Kaleidescape would not tell me what mezzanine file format they receive.
Kaleidescape also doesn’t do Dolby Vision or HDR10+.

Some at AVS has made the claim some Kaleidescape titles were not as good as the Blu-ray or UHD Blu-ray counterpart. I have watched several Kaleidescape demos and thought they were very good.

It appears Kaleidescape just works while similar setups still has warts.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

By the way I have never subscribed to any streaming service in my entire life and I am 100% physical optical disc media.

I have no more problem watching streamed content than I have watching traditional pay TV; they are more similar than they are different. I do not need to own everything that I watch, but I want to watch everything that catches my interest.

I see my digital collection as nothing but leased content, but content that I can access from almost anywhere and that I can share with family and friends almost anywhere. The vast majority of my digital collection came from redeeming codes included with, you guessed it, my blu-rays and 4K discs.

Any content that I deem worth owning, I buy on disc even if I have to "settle" for a DVD.

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Not true, the process is quite different. Kaleidescape receives mezzanine files from which they compress to their file format. The VP of Kaleidescape would not tell me what mezzanine file format they receive.
Kaleidescape also doesn’t do Dolby Vision or HDR10+.

Some at AVS has made the claim some Kaleidescape titles were not as good as the Blu-ray or UHD Blu-ray counterpart. I have watched several Kaleidescape demos and thought they were very good.

It appears Kaleidescape just works while similar setups still has warts.

In another thread I did mention that the system does not support Dolby Vision HDR or HDR10+ yet. But for the 4K HDR10 titles with lossless audio the system is the same as the 4K Blu-ray format including extra features. The main problem with the system is its to expensive for the average consumer and streaming one day might replace download movie services.