81:19 Nielsen/VideoScan Weekly Sales Numbers

[Flux88MPH]

Originally Posted by ikbradley

I'm just not sure that what is being done is trolling. What has Flux88MPH done that is so inflamatory?

He questioned the partiality and methodology of the Nielson ratings. With all of the dogma being thrown at Flux88MPH, it seems strange that somehow the questioning the Nielson ratings has become a sacred taboo.

Nothing is perfect. I think a good discussion on the flaws of the Nielson rating would be beneficial for anyone who relies on such information as a resource. You can't say that methodologies are sound until you review them. Are these published. They may be the best that is available, but best isn't perfect.

Am I a troll for questioning the labelling of trolls?

Again, thanks for the support.

I didn't know questioning Nielsen in the Blu-ray forum was like questioning God in a religious forum.

[The Shrike]

Originally Posted by Flux88MPH

Again, thanks for the support.

I didn't know questioning Nielsen in the Blu-ray forum was like questioning God in a religious forum.

Maybe it was because your questioning was very poor and unrelenting. Far be it from me to question the genius of you, but when you were questioned point by point, you did not respond to the challenges and continued unabaited. That's why people think you are a troll. Because you don't respond honestly to questions, and do not seem to be interested in honest debate. Instead, you point out that your wife has "a show". That's what many trolls have done here before. You fit a profile. It's been fun, but I'm dumping you onto my 100+ ignore pile. Enjoy your life of prviledged smartness. I'm done with you.

[ikbradley]

Originally Posted by Flux88MPH

Again, thanks for the support.

I didn't know questioning Nielsen in the Blu-ray forum was like questioning God in a religious forum.

It's the best system we have. It has constantly shown the positive rise of Blu-ray. Honestly, Nielson is the only thing we have as an indicator. I think that's where the problem started and it snowballed with some banter.

If you have some solid evidence of a bias resulting from client direction that's great. If you know how the information of HD media sales is gathered and reported, great.

I just don't like people relying on anything without a critical eye.

[Flux88MPH]

Originally Posted by The Shrike

Maybe it was because your questioning was very poor and unrelenting. Far be it from me to question the genius of you, but when you were questioned point by point, you did not respond to the challenges and continued unabaited. That's why people think you are a troll. Because you don't respond honestly to questions, and do not seem to be interested in honest debate. Instead, you point out that your wife has "a show". That's what many trolls have done here before. You fit a profile. It's been fun, but I'm dumping you onto my 100+ ignore pile. Enjoy your life of prviledged smartness. I'm done with you.

I’ve addressed each rational question with an answer. Your rambling sarcastic insults were ignored for a reason. I’m not going to repeat the same thing over and over. I also don’t need an “Insider” tag to feel good about myself and don’t plan on name dropping (as if that really means anything anyway). I was simply asked how I know about Nielsen so I vaguely explained how. I don’t have to prove anything to you based on my comments about Nielsen numbers. Based on your behavior and juvenile attitude I find it very funny that you go around calling people “trolls”.

[richard lichtenfelt]

That was more entertaining than a party at Quagmire's.
Lets sum this all up: N/VS is accepted as the standard by everyone except for Flux88mph. It is not accurate to an exact number.
Flux likes to attack the validity of the jobs held by peoples kids.
His wife works in Hollywood in a hypothetical sort of way from Texas, except sometimes she uses a form of transportation that employs flying machines and logistical hubs.
The Shrike is looking for guidance from a power greater than he, but came to the conclusion that Flux is a false god.
Nothing is perfect.

[The Shrike]

Originally Posted by richard lichtenfelt

That was more entertaining than a party at Quagmire's.
Lets sum this all up: N/VS is accepted as the standard by everyone except for Flux88mph. It is not accurate to an exact number.
Flux likes to attack the validity of the jobs held by peoples kids.
His wife works in Hollywood in a hypothetical sort of way from Texas, except sometimes she uses a form of transportation that employs flying machines and logistical hubs.
The Shrike is looking for guidance from a power greater than he, but came to the conclusion that Flux is a false god.
Nothing is perfect.

Once again, good sir, you prove you are worthy of your avatar. I humbly fellate you as thanks.

[sj001]

This reminds me of the David Vaughn issue a while back...

[Shadowself]

Originally Posted by Flux88MPH

I’ve addressed each rational question with an answer.

Actually, as pointed out by RUR, you didn't. You deflected to a new direction of attack when each of your positions was refuted. This may be the biggest issue most readers have with your position.

Originally Posted by Flux88MPH

I also don’t need an “Insider” tag to feel good about myself and don’t plan on name dropping (as if that really means anything anyway). I was simply asked how I know about Nielsen so I vaguely explained how. I don’t have to prove anything to you based on my comments about Nielsen numbers.

The insiders in these forums have been at least minimally vetted. They, therefore, get a modicum of greater deference in their comments about how things are actually done. If you want to challenge them directly you need to bring specifics directly applicable to the point at hand -- not specifics of loosely related topics.

"Media" is not "media". The data about market impressions (whether talking about images to the eyes over broadcast or physical media sales) are not collected in anywhere near the same manner. Stating that the HD number collection methods leads to biased results because a different collection method for a different media and distribution method has had biases and inaccuracies in the past is ludicrous.

Bring specifics about how the N/VS numbers are inaccurate (and not just because they don't have a sample size of 100% of all disks sold) and some of us might support your position. So far you have not done this.

Originally Posted by Flux88MPH

Based on your behavior and juvenile attitude I find it very funny that you go around calling people “trolls”.

It is true that too many people have been called "troll" in this forum. IMHO, some have deserved that label. Many have not.

So far, based upon your arguments, I would most definitely not call you a troll. However, you have very poorly supported your arguments. Therefore your position your position is not one people will support.

[jdsanko]

Originally Posted by Flux88MPH

I must have missed the moment that credentials were passed out. I never once questioned his creditability, but simply debated his statements based also on what I know. FYI the Blackstone Group, Kohlberg Kravis Roberts & Co, and the Carlyle Group own Nielsen. So my mentioning of this was completely relevant. These are private equity firms that have known bias and political agendas. I see that as a reason to critically question their format and involvement.

Neilson/VS weekly numbers are a political conspiracy to support BD over HD-DVD. Are you nuts or what? I guess the fact that Toshiba is essentially giving away hardware is not a firesale, but a benevolent gift to the poor consumer so that they can enjoy a higer level of video experience. Not really a desperate effort to keep their inferior format alive.

[gandley]

WTF this thread took a mind trip

so, er, whats the numbers gonna be this week

[Living Near Shamu]

When do the numbers come out?

[UlicBelouve]

Originally Posted by gandley

WTF this thread took a mind trip

so, er, whats the numbers gonna be this week

That's what I came here for.

On a side note, there was a really good graph put together
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=14649

That I think could be wrapped into a new thread.

I really propose a new, and redone thread for this one. Take the numbers, and the graph, and any useful comments that are here, and drop them into a new sticky thread.

I think a number of threads should be redone, as that would make them much more informative, since we will likely get more visitors/members, as Blu-Ray picks up, or as the interest in Blu-ray picks up.

[Flux88MPH]

Originally Posted by Shadowself

Actually, as pointed out by RUR, you didn't. You deflected to a new direction of attack when each of your positions was refuted. This may be the biggest issue most readers have with your position.



The insiders in these forums have been at least minimally vetted. They, therefore, get a modicum of greater deference in their comments about how things are actually done. If you want to challenge them directly you need to bring specifics directly applicable to the point at hand -- not specifics of loosely related topics.

"Media" is not "media". The data about market impressions (whether talking about images to the eyes over broadcast or physical media sales) are not collected in anywhere near the same manner. Stating that the HD number collection methods leads to biased results because a different collection method for a different media and distribution method has had biases and inaccuracies in the past is ludicrous.

Bring specifics about how the N/VS numbers are inaccurate (and not just because they don't have a sample size of 100% of all disks sold) and some of us might support your position. So far you have not done this.



It is true that too many people have been called "troll" in this forum. IMHO, some have deserved that label. Many have not.

So far, based upon your arguments, I would most definitely not call you a troll. However, you have very poorly supported your arguments. Therefore your position your position is not one people will support.

Shadowself -

What do you consider specifics?

I stated many reasons over and over to my opinions based on public and inside info on Nielsen. I made comparisons to the similarities in the Nielsen Screen Media and VideoScan surveys. I have not once denied that it’s the best option that we have but rather everyone should keep in mind that it is not a comprehensive collection of consumer buying. I gave examples to why we should be critical to their data as well as examples of where they have been biased in the past.

During this I received many unpleasant and inappropriate comments all because I question why people hold so true to numbers that are a trend survey that covers only part of a market. I am here to share information and topics with others who also love and support the Blu-ray format. I have no reason to lie about anything I have said and nothing to gain from doing so. I come from the tech side of the spectrum handling such things as the Sony relationship with Dell Computers. My wife has a show on national TV. I am very educated on the workings of Nielsen and was only sharing my opinion.

If opinions are not welcome here then I am in the wrong place. I don’t feel that I owe any insulting naysayer who can’t extend any common manners my time or answers to support their negative forum theater.

[patrick99]

Originally Posted by Living Near Shamu

When do the numbers come out?

Not soon enough.

[monkyman]

Oh my god, I had to wade though about 4 pages of this, just because 1 person doesn't believe the Neilsons?

Anyway, i'm still going low this week, even with spiderman.
Lets say.....63-37

[Iron Man]

Is there some kind of HD-DVD disc offer right now?

[The Shrike]

Originally Posted by monkyman

Oh my god, I had to wade though about 4 pages of this, just because 1 person doesn't believe the Neilsons?

Anyway, i'm still going low this week, even with spiderman.
Lets say.....63-37

Oh come on! I tried so hard to entertain in the midst of it! Admit it, it wasn't that bad... Anyway... I would think Spider-Man could at least shove it up to 65. I wouldn't be surprised if Spider-Man 3 vs Spider-Man Trilogy kept either from being #1, but I still think the combination of the two would at least get BD to 65. Plus, didn't Bill Hunt mention something about the numbers being significant? Maybe it will actually be higher. Why don't I pointlessly speculate some more.

[richteer]

Originally Posted by Iron Man

Is there some kind of HD-DVD disc offer right now?

IIRC, Heroes and one or two other titles were given away with the $98 firesale players. Even though they were $0, they got scanned at the till, and are therefore counted in the numbers.

[sj001]

Originally Posted by richteer

IIRC, Heroes and one or two other titles were given away with the $98 firesale players. Even though they were $0, they got scanned at the till, and are therefore counted in the numbers.

Were these on Amazon though?

[Blubaru]

Originally Posted by Iron Man

Is there some kind of HD-DVD disc offer right now?

50,000+ 98$ HD-DVD players is what happened.