Zack Snyder's 'Man of Steel'

[KINGDANGER]

Originally Posted by tommyboy81

Man of Steel: Christopher Nolan Opposed the Ending, DC Comics Advised on It

*SPOILERS WARNING*

Man of Steel bannerWarning: Spoilers ahead for Man of Steel, in theaters now.

[Show spoiler]

(Obviously.)

In an interview with the Empire magazine podcast, Man of Steel screenwriter David S. Goyer revealed that producer Christopher Nolan was opposed to the controversial ending to Man of Steel.

The godfather of gritty, realistic superhero films was apparently not willing to go quite as far with perceived changes to Superman’s character as was the Watchmen director.

“Killing Zod was a big thing and Chris Nolan, originally, said there’s no way you can do this,” Goyer told the magazine. “That was a change–originally Zod got sucked into the Phantom Zone along with the others and I just felt it was unsatisfying and so did Zack. We started questioning–we talked to some of the people at DC Comics and said, ‘Do you think there is ever a way that Superman would kill someone?’ And at first they said ‘No way, no way,’ and we said, ‘but what if he didn’t have a choice?’ Originally Chris didn’t even want to let us try to write it and Zack and I said, ‘We think we can figure out a way that you’ll buy it.’”

He acknowledged that it’s a shocking and possibly uncomfortable scene, but that they’ve hopefully set up the mainstream audience to question what they know about Superman.

Man Of Steel Box OfficeDirector Zack Snyder also explained the decision that went into killing, and how it will affect sequels to come.

“I guess for me–and in the original version of the script he just got zapped into the Phantom Zone–David and I had long talks about it and Chris and I talked long about it and it was like, ‘I really think we should kill Zod and I really think Superman should kill him,’” Snyder explained. “And the why of it was, for me, that if it’s truly an origin story, his aversion to killing is unexplained. It’s just in his DNA. I felt like we needed him to do something, just like him putting on the glasses or going to the Daily Planet or any of the other things that you’re sort of seeing for the first time that you realize will then become his thing. I felt like, if we can find a way of making it impossible for him–like Kobayashi Maru, totally no way out–I felt like that could also make you go, ‘Okay, this is the why of him not killing ever again, right?’ He’s basically obliterated his entire people and his culture and he is responsible for it and he’s just like, ‘How could I kill ever again?’”

He said that after Zod’s purpose was taken from him, he was nothing but a killing machine, and there was really no putting him in jail and walking away. He compared Zod’s actions to “suicide by cop,” tying it back to the repeated use of “a good death is its own reward” in the movie. The warrior bred, Snyder said, felt that if Kal-El was capable of killing him, then that was an honorable way to go after having failed his people.

He also said that in potential sequels, Superman having killed Zod will keep the audience from becoming complacent and thinking they know Superman’s limitations.

“I think that when you really put in stone the notion that he won’t kill, it erases an option in the viewer’s mind,” Snyder said. “That doesn’t mean that he doesn’t now have a code that ‘I just won’t do that; I have to find another way.’”

Too bad they never considered the option I came up with for Superman to

[Show spoiler]cover Zod's eyes with his hand in searing agony only to have Zod fry his own brain out from his reckless abuse of power.

Although the outcome is similar, it just makes more sense for the character of Superman to me.

[tommyboy81]

Originally Posted by KINGDANGER

Too bad they never considered the option I came up with for Superman to

[Show spoiler]cover Zod's eyes with his hand in searing agony only to have Zod fry his own brain out from his reckless abuse of power.

Although the outcome is similar, it just makes more sense for the character of Superman to me.

[Show spoiler] well when Faora had her hand on Supes face covering his eye she had to remove it because the heat vision got to her hand.

[Petra_Kalbrain]

Originally Posted by mlittle3

Yep, interesting how all that is easily forgotten by the haters/Marveloids.

HA! Marveloid?

I'm a Superman fan first and foremost, but I don't hold the comics as canon. There are many things that Superman is suppose to be and this film almost intentionally works against those very values.

Originally Posted by MyBlu-rayBrotherEd

Actually, I think he's a die hard Superman fan if I remember right....

That is correct. And, I've said it several times already that I expected some compromising of the character for the modern film version. However, bastardizing his moral fibre to this degree is a putrid attempt at making money. Superman deserves better.

[unsung122212]

Originally Posted by KINGDANGER

Too bad they never considered the option I came up with for Superman to

[Show spoiler]cover Zod's eyes with his hand in searing agony only to have Zod fry his own brain out from his reckless abuse of power.

Although the outcome is similar, it just makes more sense for the character of Superman to me.

[Show spoiler]But the attempt to do that, Zod could have enough power to complete his mission and kill the family or break free. Kal already have him the choke hold before he uses his heat vision.

What I might done with the script would be this:

Without changing anything up till the final battle with Zod; after Clark saves Lois from falling from the plane and the plan succeeds, Instead of Lois and Clark kissing we have Lois say like it's over, we won, but Clark says no we still have deal with Zod. Then, at the moment Zod appears with his suit and breather mask off and vows to kill all the humans that Clark was fighting to protect. Then he ascends into the sky and begins using his heat vision turns survivors popping out of the rumble with the world engine finally gone. Clark flys towards him, and into space destroying the satellite. Zod comes back at Clark. While heading back into Metropolis Clark tries to direct their descent away from Metropolis, but Zod prevents that from happening. They eventually crash into the train station and cue the rest of the film.

[Drewbee87]

Originally Posted by Petra_Kalbrain

There are many things that Superman is suppose to be and this film almost intentionally works against those very values.

That was the whole point of this reboot. This Superman isn't supposed to be exactly what everyone is used to...

[West E]

Originally Posted by Bourne1886

What does that mean?
He only made Superman the movie for theatres and his cut of Superman 2 for home video in over 30 years, that's hardly a lot is. Besides his movie was the bench mark for all other superhero/ comic book movies.

What a ridiculous thing to say.

My thoughts exactly. Donner was the first Hollywood type to treat any superhero, let alone the greatest one, with respect. He didn't make a perfect Superman film but he made one with heart.

[roguescribner]

Originally Posted by MykeHavoc

I uh... wait, huh? Did we see the same film? I'm pretty sure that's exactly what happened.

Really? I just saw a bunch of punching and buildings being demolished. I didn't realize Superman was trying to make sure no one got hurt too.

[Z-Corp]

Originally Posted by roguescribner

I can appreciate Snyder's intent with the scene, but I still feel the execution was lacking. There should have been a build up of desperation that the audience could have felt along with Superman so when that finally happened we were all momentarily relieved before getting hit with the shock. We should have been in Superman's head when that happened. It just seemed so perfunctory.

[Show spoiler]If we witnessed 10 minutes of Superman trying to stop Zod while also trying to make sure people weren't harmed in the process--but FAILING--and then the scene in the train station was just the final straw, man, I still wouldn't have liked it but at least I'd understand it.

I hope this does build to something meaningful in the sequel and this just isn't lip service. Maybe they can retroactively smooth over some glaring problems I and many others have with the film.

[Show spoiler]I had a second viewing today and noticed that the people Zod was about to kill in the train station were not just random folks; it was a familiy. (Father, Mother, son, daughter) I can understand not everyone getting the full emotional effect of this, but I think Synder used this as a strong tie-in to Clarks family upbringing.

[MyBlu-rayBrotherEd]

Originally Posted by roguescribner

Really? I just saw a bunch of punching and buildings being demolished. I didn't realize Superman was trying to make sure no one got hurt too.

Dude, you were already warned once by a Moderator to let it go.

[mrpink134]

Wow still bickering over the same thing now for the past 3 days? Wow! Is it really worth getting suspended over? Thats why I stopped.

[car2nst]

Has anyone considered that he isn't an "established" SUPERMAN with all of his code of ethics and experience, insights and self confidence yet?? and was still struggling to find himself. Maybe the "Holy $h!t" moment causes him to establish those and what he will do and/or never do again and how far he will go in the up and coming movies. ( i find that to be a vey good character development) Plus everyone is acting like this movie is supposed to be the definitive story and myth of the superman mythos from now on. how many little tweaks and changes has dc comics done to him over the years? hell, maybe it could be a "Star Trek" way and be in an alternate earth...like Earth 2...lol
i loved the movie. yes it was choppy in spots and could've been improved on in parts and IMO could've still used the William's theme in it but you take it for what it is...a motion picture to entertain. people need to get a grip and if you like it, cool...if you hated it, whatever, its your own opinion that matters.

[roguescribner]

Originally Posted by MyBlu-rayBrotherEd

Dude, you were already warned once by a Moderator to let it go.

I did let it go. Someone asked me a question and I answered it.

[Z-Corp]

Sorry folks, thought this was a funny read for our discussions.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mike-r...34ee15c9aa0826

[Falaskan]

Originally Posted by car2nst

Has anyone considered that he isn't an "established" SUPERMAN with all of his code of ethics and experience, insights and self confidence yet?? and was still struggling to find himself. Maybe the "Holy $h!t" moment causes him to establish those and what he will do and/or never do again and how far he will go in the up and coming movies. ( i find that to be a vey good character development) Plus everyone is acting like this movie is supposed to be the definitive story and myth of the superman mythos from now on. how many little tweaks and changes has dc comics done to him over the years?

This

[Joeinar]

MoS is a very very disappointing film, lacks fun, lacks humor, when there is humor it's stolen from Greatest American Hero. But for those who love seeing sh** destroyed it will appeal to them. Holy crap another skyscraper just got knocked down!

[Z-Corp]

Originally Posted by Joeinar

MoS is a very very disappointing film, lacks fun, lacks humor, when there is humor it's stolen from Greatest American Hero. But for those who love seeing sh** destroyed it will appeal to them. Holy crap another skyscraper just got knocked down!

I found a laugh during the fight in

[Show spoiler]the construction site. Zod knocks Superman into a "injury free for 166 days" and the numbers fall off to zero.

[Falaskan]

Originally Posted by Z-Corp

I found a laugh during the fight in

[Show spoiler]the construction site. Zod knocks Superman into a "injury free for 166 days" and the numbers fall off to zero.

My friends and I also laughed when it was seen that Clark had shoved that guy's truck ontop of those spikes, and also when he beats on Zod for

[Show spoiler]trying to kill his mother

! Also when Jorel uses just the motion of his hand to bring down the doors ontop some of the kryptonians on Zod's ship. Had the humor been anymore than that, it would've started to get Robert Downeyjewy.

[Spyder-Dan]

Originally Posted by Z-Corp

I found a laugh during the fight in

[Show spoiler]the construction site. Zod knocks Superman into a "injury free for 166 days" and the numbers fall off to zero.

Ahh, but was anyone actually injured

[Show spoiler]on the skycraper construction site that was immediately toppled?

[bluearth]

Originally Posted by Bourne1886

But like I said,will it have the staying power of Williams theme. Will it become as iconic as that one. I'm not sure it will and maybe be forgotten about. Williams theme is a very tough act to follow.

I like action but not when it's there for the sake of it i don't. How many times does a building collapsing keep it fresh and exciting? Not much! The problem the film makers have got now is how are they gonna up the anti re the action. They've destroyed Metropolis and Smallville! Are they gonna keep wrecking cities?! That will get boring very quick. That's where you need the character development, the quieter moments, the little nuances that make a good story great and more involving and emotional.

I get that this is the new Superman and that's fine but you should never sacrifice good characters and stories for action. It becomes hollow, souless and Dare i say boring in places.
***Spoiler***
I hate saying that about a Superman film as I love Superman but by the end when Zod dies I should have felt more! I didn't know how to feel or what to think. It just didn't click with me the way the previous Reeve's films did! I didn't hate it, its a good movie, it looks like Superman,sounded like Superman (music aside!) it just wasn't Moving or emotional enough for me!

Hopefully when I watch it again my view will have changed. I want to love it and give it 5 out of 5, I just can't.

Have you seen a Superman The Animated Series fight? 10 skyscrapers can be destroyed in a 2 minute fight.

More character development and more quiet scenes doesnt automatically make a good or better movie. I just got back from Fast 6, and that point was hammered home.

Originally Posted by V2David

I agree with you 100%. I wanted to love this movie but I just can't. It isn't that I don't like action. It is just that there is no weight to the action. You don't really care what is happening on the screen. It is Transformers meets Superman. Were the special effects awesome? Absolutely. But I could care less what was happening on the screen. There is no emotional connection to this Superman or their characters no matter how much they marketed this film. There is no romance (as much as I love Amy Adams). And frankly there is no fun. Superman Returns was boring due to little action, but at least the film had heart. This movie is boring cause it has too much action and no heart or fun. We need some type of mix between the two. But I am afraid with this big opening, Superman is going in the wrong direction. Who needs a good story when you can just have mindless action?

I would be interested in seeing a "directors cut" of this movie. I know a ton of stuff was cut, maybe we will get one. Otherwise, it will be interesting to see some fan edits of this. They got all of the ingredients right. The actors are good, the music is good, the special effects are good. I even think their intentions were good. Yet something is greatly amiss.

Wow, dragging Man of Steel down to the level of Transformers? Thats going too far.

As for those who say

[Show spoiler]Superman never kills, did it bother you when Christopher Reeves killed Zod in Superman II, Lois killed Faora in Superman II, and Brand Routh pretty much killed several Lex Luthor Henchman when raising the island in Superman Returns?

Originally Posted by Joeinar

MoS is a very very disappointing film, lacks fun, lacks humor, when there is humor it's stolen from Greatest American Hero. But for those who love seeing sh** destroyed it will appeal to them. Holy crap another skyscraper just got knocked down!

Iron Man 3 was very humerous. Especially that scene. How did that turn out?

[gates70]

Originally Posted by Falaskan

My friends and I also laughed when

[Show spoiler]it was seen that Clark had shoved that guy's truck ontop of those spikes, and also when he beats on Zod for trying to kill his mother! Also when Jorel uses just the motion of his hand to bring down the doors ontop some of the kryptonians on Zod's ship.

Had the humor been anymore than that, it would've started to get Robert Downeyjewy.

Man, if I was a mod I'd suspend you right now...how many times do we have to say to use spoiler tags ?