Fantastic Four (2015)

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

I'm not trying to be a deliberate pain either, but in all honesty, PC-driven decisions make me want to throw up.

I get that emotion, I really do. I just don't think giving a cast some diversity qualifies as rampant PC appeasement. That's just me.

[Moviefan2k4]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

I get that emotion, I really do. I just don't think giving a cast some diversity qualifies as rampant PC appeasement. That's just me.

By itself, maybe not...but when you add up all the changes so far, it becomes very clear why they're making those choices. Whoever's ultimately responsible - some idiotic Fox exec or Trank - wants this new film to appease any group that could potentially protest it, except one: loyal fans of the actual comic books. I didn't grow up reading many comics as a kid, but "Fantastic Four" was one of them. As such, I'm very protective of its legacy, along with Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, and to a lesser extent, the X-Men.

[wormraper]

I personally don't think Trank put in Michael because he's black. I think he did it because he wanted some buddies in the film and he's worked with him before


but beside that, the whole thing reeks of awful. like X-men Origins: Wolverine bad

[Moviefan2k4]

Originally Posted by wormraper

I personally don't think Trank put in Michael because he's black. I think he did it because he wanted some buddies in the film and he's worked with him before

Maybe, but if that was the only reason, why cast him as Johnny Storm, instead of another character?

But besides that, the whole thing reeks of awful. like X-men Origins: Wolverine bad

I liked some of "Origins", but on the whole, it was definitely a low point for the franchise. Not as bad as "The Last Stand", but still pretty close to the drain. The only parts I really loved were seeing Gambit in action, Logan's relationship with Silverfox, and Liev Schreiber as Sabertooth (perfect casting).

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

I liked some of "Origins", but on the whole, it was definitely a low point for the franchise. Not as bad as "The Last Stand", but still pretty close to the drain. The only parts I really loved were seeing Gambit in action, Logan's relationship with Silverfox, and Liev Schreiber as Sabertooth (perfect casting).

Huh... I would put Origins way, way, waaaayyyyy below Last Stand.

[wormraper]

I think Last stand gets unfairly judged. it was a decent comic book movie, just not as good as the first two. Origins is like David Hasselhoff as Captain America bad though. (except for the awesome part in the elevator and Asian guy's headquarters when Ryan Reynold was channeling Deadpool like a boss)

[Infernal King]

Who cares which one is worse? Trying to decide between Last Stand and Origins is like figuring out whether you'd want a swift kick in the balls or a baseball bat to the head.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Infernal King

Who cares which one is worse? Trying to decide between Last Stand and Origins is like figuring out whether you'd want a swift kick in the balls or a baseball bat to the head.

Like wormraper I think Last Stand is underrated. It's certainly worse than the two core series movies that came before and after it, but is it some abomination with no merit? Nah. It's a decent flick.

Origins, however, I remember thinking was total trash. I only saw it once though.

[Infernal King]

Also, as much as having a black person cast as Johnny Storm makes Moviefan2k nauseous, it's flat out obnoxious to me when a white person foams at the mouth against a casting decision that may or may not have been made to appeal to black people. Even if his worst fears are accurate, so what? Is a black child seeing Michael B. Jordan playing this heroic character a crime? Actually, you know who throws a tantrum when something doesn't going their way? Children. The casting is done and no amount of whining on the internet is going to change that. The people complaining the most have already said they're not going to see it so what do you gain by continuing to blowing off steam online? If this makes you so upset, go outside, take a walk, get a pet, volunteer at a charity. You know what I do when I think a movie looks stupid? I don't see it and move the hell on with my life.

[Infernal King]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

Like wormraper I think Last Stand is underrated. It's certainly worse than the two core series movies that came before and after it, but is it some abomination with no merit? Nah. It's a decent flick.

Origins, however, I remember thinking was total trash. I only saw it once though.

I would argue that yes, X3 really is terrible. In fact, it retroactively harms the previous two films for me, because watching them again, I realized that many of the plot threads ended up going nowhere in the third one and several characters suffered stupid, ignominious fates. Same thing happened with Spider-Man 3, The Dark Knight Rises, etc. There is almost nothing about it I like so we're at opposite ends of the spectrum on this one, sorry. It's a movie I never want to see again.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Infernal King

I would argue that yes, X3 really is terrible. In fact, it retroactively harms the previous two films for me, because watching them again, I realized that many of the plot threads ended up going nowhere in the third one and several characters suffered stupid, ignominious fates. Same thing happened with Spider-Man 3, The Dark Knight Rises, etc. There is almost nothing about it I like so we're at opposite ends of the spectrum on this one, sorry. It's a movie I never want to see again.

I liked the cure plot. I liked Beast a lot. I liked Wolverine taking a leadership role, he's my favorite character. I liked some of the more comic book style mutant fights. I liked Jean Grey's mental struggle, as we talked about elsewhere. I really liked the ending, with that epic music and Logan killing his out of control love.

I agree with most of the complaints. Lots of silly dialog, killing Cyclops was weird, bad directing, etc... I still think it's a decent movie, and a decent capper to a good trilogy. Origins I literally remember struggling not to turn off.

Anyway, it's all opinion. We all agree it's the worst of the 5 main movies, that's what's important.

[Moviefan2k4]

Originally Posted by Infernal King

Also, as much as having a black person cast as Johnny Storm makes Moviefan2k4 nauseous, it's flat out obnoxious to me when a white person foams at the mouth against a casting decision that may or may not have been made to appeal to black people. Even if his worst fears are accurate, so what? Is a black child seeing Michael B. Jordan playing this heroic character a crime? Actually, you know who throws a tantrum when something doesn't going their way? Children. The casting is done and no amount of whining on the internet is going to change that. The people complaining the most have already said they're not going to see it so what do you gain by continuing to blowing off steam online? If this makes you so upset, go outside, take a walk, get a pet, volunteer at a charity. You know what I do when I think a movie looks stupid? I don't see it and move the hell on with my life.

Clearly not, since you've spent about the same amount of time on this thread debating this issue as I have. I never said Trank's casting choices - any of them - were a crime, but the fact of the matter is they don't match the comics. Like it or not, the main demographic targeted by studios with comic-based films is...wait for it...fans of comic books. Wow, what a shocker!

If you're determined to see it in spite of the changes, that's fine; I have no issue with that at all. But don't presume to tell actual fans what we should think, say, or do...regarding characters we've collectively admired for over 50 years.

[toddly6666]

Watching Last Stand does not feel like a Brett Raetner film at all - it is quite underrated and I think has aged well. Origins, however, gets worse and worse everytime I watch it.

[Infernal King]

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

Clearly not, since you've spent about the same amount of time on this thread debating this issue as I have. I never said Trank's casting choices - any of them - were a crime, but the fact of the matter is they don't match the comics. Like it or not, the main demographic targeted by studios with comic-based films is...wait for it...fans of comic books. Wow, what a shocker!

If you're determined to see it in spite of the changes, that's fine; I have no issue with that at all. But don't presume to tell actual fans what we should think, say, or do...regarding characters we've collectively admired for over 50 years.

I'm glad you pivoted back to not talking about political correctness explicitly, at least for one post. That's progress, keep it up please.

Good job ignoring my question as to what you hope to accomplish by endlessly complaining about this movie, though.

[Darkstream]

I had to stay away from this thread for awhile, so that I can focus on more important issues and not let trivial things, like a difference of opinion about a movie, frustrate me.

Anyway, in Fantastic Four-related news, it seems it is now confirmed that Marvel are indeed cancelling the FF comic for a while. Take it as you will, but I'm willing to bet, as many others believe, that it has something to do with Fox holding the film rights, and maybe even Fox's controversial revision of the characters in the upcoming movie, that is making Marvel stand against any promotional support of the franchise.


CONFIRMED: Marvel Cancel FANTASTIC FOUR Comic Book Series

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansit...news/?a=109136

[Comicman494]

Originally Posted by Darkstream

I had to stay away from this thread for awhile, so that I can focus on more important issues and not let trivial things, like a difference of opinion about a movie, frustrate me.

Anyway, in Fantastic Four-related news, it seems it is now confirmed that Marvel are indeed cancelling the FF comic for a while. Take it as you will, but I'm willing to bet, as many others believe, that it has something to do with Fox holding the film rights, and maybe even Fox's controversial revision of the characters in the upcoming movie, that is making Marvel stand against any promotional support of the franchise.


CONFIRMED: Marvel Cancel FANTASTIC FOUR Comic Book Series

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansit...news/?a=109136

Regardless of opinions on the upcoming film, it is heartbreaking to see Marvel's First Family in this situation, caught in a war between companies and at the bottom of the comics totem pole.

[RicketyCricket]

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

Like it or not, the main demographic targeted by studios with comic-based films is...wait for it...fans of comic books.

Yeah, this is so far from the truth. You truly think that the majority of the millions and millions of people who go to see Captain America or Iron Man or Man of Steel have ever picked up a comic book in their life? That's idiotic. Most of these characters are known through osmosis in pop-culture. Everybody knows who Superman is, but a vast, vast minority of the population have actually picked up a Superman comic book in their life.

[Clark Kent]

The comic book fans drive a lot of the popular mainstream opinions about these movies, hence why Hollywood panders to them before a film's release.

Here is what I truly believe happened with this new Fantastic Four film. Fox didn't want to sink large sums of money into an unproven superhero property but wanted to retain their film rights. They realized they were never going to compete with the big-budget superhero films made by Disney and Warner, thus the move in a wildly different direction by fundamentally altering the familiar Fantastic Four.

I thought Michael Jordan was great in Chronicle and should have been cast in an appropriate Marvel/DC film role. He would have made a fantastic Mister Terrific in a possible Justice League role. The problem is that casting him as Johnny Storm introduces a huge mess of issues. I don't think it was pandering to certain demographics as much as desperation. Fox showed with their tone-deaf casting in the first two FF films they have no idea how to handle this group of characters.

[Moviefan2k4]

Originally Posted by Clark Kent

The comic book fans drive a lot of the popular mainstream opinions about these movies, hence why Hollywood panders to them before a film's release.

Here is what I truly believe happened with this new Fantastic Four film. Fox didn't want to sink large sums of money into an unproven superhero property but wanted to retain their film rights. They realized they were never going to compete with the big-budget superhero films made by Disney and Warner, thus the move in a wildly different direction by fundamentally altering the familiar Fantastic Four.

I thought Michael Jordan was great in Chronicle and should have been cast in an appropriate Marvel/DC film role. He would have made a fantastic Mister Terrific in a possible Justice League role. The problem is that casting him as Johnny Storm introduces a huge mess of issues. I don't think it was pandering to certain demographics as much as desperation. Fox showed with their tone-deaf casting in the first two FF films they have no idea how to handle this group of characters.

The Fox execs allowed Tim Story to cast Chris Evans and Michael Chiklis in the first two films, so that's one good move from them. As for them being desperate with this new entry, I agree, but I also think that desperation is what led to the pandering.

Originally Posted by Infernal King

Good job ignoring my question as to what you hope to accomplish by endlessly complaining about this movie, though.

If enough people complain, the film will flop, and Fox will have no choice but to return the rights to Marvel. That's my hope, so the "first family of comics" can have a proper cinematic treatment.

[kemcha]

That won't force Fox to return the franchise to Marvel as Fox would resist any attempts to do so. If the movie fails, Marvel could use the clause in their contract agreement with Fox to rescind their rights to the Fantastic Four property. I think the only reason such franchises as Ghost Rider and Daredevil were returned to Marvel was that Sony and Fox didn't want to waste time fighting over those franchises.

In the end, I think Fox has taken too many hits, in regards to Fantastic Four, and it has a lot of fans upset over the casting. It's no so much as the casting of Johnny Storm as an African American, but that Fox didn't even bother to retain some continuity by casting Sue Storm as an African America. No one is criticizing that Michael Jordan isn't a decent actor, he is. It's only Fox's error in miscasting. if they want to cast Johnny Storm as black or Asian, fine. But, cast his sister as the same race as Johnny Storm. Right now, as it stands, the new Fantastic Four team looks more like a dysfunctional family with mental problems.