Third Window Films Discussion Thread

[gouryella]

Originally Posted by thirdwindowfilms

it was a super expensive set. 18 page booklet, bluray, cd, slipcase, etc
The CD needed to pay royalty rights too, so all in all it was a very "labour of love" type of release, which won't really turn too much a profit, and will lose if prices aren't properly racked as per fopp!

Sorry to hear that. I ordered a bunch of used titles, ones I couldn't see in the Fopp I visited however I won't be getting "Say Yes" (damn you and your online ordering system cex).

In future I think I'm going to avoid used copies. Having put more thought into it I wouldn't be paying a lot more and I would rather Third Window Films see some money than earn a profit for cex. Not to mention also getting guaranteed mint copies.

Are Friend and Peppermint Candy oop? Also I think one of the titles with "Fish" in it had 2 different covers in Fopp. I remember I couldn't decide which cover I preferred then moved on and forget to pick up either one.

[thirdwindowfilms]

Originally Posted by gouryella

Sorry to hear that. I ordered a bunch of used titles, ones I couldn't see in the Fopp I visited however I won't be getting "Say Yes" (damn you and your online ordering system cex).

In future I think I'm going to avoid used copies. Having put more thought into it I wouldn't be paying a lot more and I would rather Third Window Films see some money than earn a profit for cex. Not to mention also getting guaranteed mint copies.

Are Friend and Peppermint Candy oop? Also I think one of the titles with "Fish" in it had 2 different covers in Fopp. I remember I couldn't decide which cover I preferred then moved on and forget to pick up either one.

OOP are: Green Fish, No Blood No Tears, Friend, Say Yes, Guns & Talks, Teenage Hooker, Kick the Moon, No 3, Peppermint Candy, Wild Card

Though I'd still imagine there are copies around and a few in Fopp promo, but the stock is probably running low and won't be re-pressed

[Dougling]

Originally Posted by thirdwindowfilms

OOP are: Green Fish, No Blood No Tears, Friend, Say Yes, Guns & Talks, Teenage Hooker, Kick the Moon, No 3, Peppermint Candy, Wild Card

Though I'd still imagine there are copies around and a few in Fopp promo, but the stock is probably running low and won't be re-pressed

Green Fish is the only one of those I'm missing. Good to know, I'll pick it up on the weekend.

[logboy]

any chance of the TWF shop opening with prices like fopp's ?

... looking for 'kids return' BD, don't have a fopp near me. £10 is fine.

[Dougling]

Originally Posted by thirdwindowfilms

it was a super expensive set. 18 page booklet, bluray, cd, slipcase, etc
The CD needed to pay royalty rights too, so all in all it was a very "labour of love" type of release, which won't really turn too much a profit, and will lose if prices aren't properly racked as per fopp!

That's a real shame, and I hope you're not too badly affected by the error. I'm a big fan of every Third Window release I have (13 BDs, 14 DVDs) so I hope you're able to keep going for a long time yet.

[Ste7en]

Originally Posted by thirdwindowfilms

To be honest, it wasn't supposed to be in there at all, and i was pretty surprised to see jt there, especially at £6!
As i can't pull it, it'll go to £10 I'd imagine

Still no idea WTF this is

[gouryella]

Originally Posted by Ste7en

Still no idea WTF this is

I don't know if your being serious or not but substitute the j for an i and you have your answer.

[Ste7en]

Originally Posted by gouryella

I don't know if your being serious or not but substitute the j for an i and you have your answer.

I am, I figured I was missing a TWF title initialled JT. Didn't assume it was a typo at all

[thirdwindowfilms]

Originally Posted by logboy

any chance of the TWF shop opening with prices like fopp's ?

... looking for 'kids return' BD, don't have a fopp near me. £10 is fine.

will try to open it later in the summer, but can't offer such prices as usually do shipping for free, so 3quid for a DVD is impossible to match, but usually do 5quid for DVD and 10 for bluray. Will announce on here before it gets running!

[thirdwindowfilms]

Originally Posted by Ste7en

I am, I figured I was missing a TWF title initialled JT. Didn't assume it was a typo at all

didn't bother responding as thought the reactions were a joke, but yes, it was a typo.

[logboy]

Originally Posted by thirdwindowfilms

will try to open it later in the summer, but can't offer such prices as usually do shipping for free, so 3quid for a DVD is impossible to match, but usually do 5quid for DVD and 10 for bluray. Will announce on here before it gets running!

thanks. waited many months for 'kids return' to hit a price comparable to what i could get the other kitano's for.

can't for the life of me figure out prices on pretty much any BD these days - far higher, more volatile and frustrating than DVD ever got.

[p_cqvist]

Originally Posted by logboy

can't for the life of me figure out prices on pretty much any BD these days - far higher, more volatile and frustrating than DVD ever got.

The cost of releasing a DVD is only a fraction of that of a BD. It goes without saying that the prices on the latter will be higher.

[logboy]

Originally Posted by p_cqvist

The cost of releasing a DVD is only a fraction of that of a BD. It goes without saying that the prices on the latter will be higher.

absolutely, clearly understood. but there's a manipulation that's increasing in frequency - to falsely inflate BD prices because there's an expectation they'll be expensive due to increased basic production costs; elaborate packaging, limited runs, coloured cases, steelbooks or 'O' cards and so on.

there's also a myriad of other issues, such as the difficulty in getting a sense of certainty about BD being a noticeable upgrade (preferably without any SD, or poor elements that are unrestored essentially) from DVD - essentially BD shows the flaws in materials of lower budget films far more easily. companies seem to have more money to work with but are frequently found to be pretty quiet on the flaws they've not managed to avoid when in production, and they let the market buy into films before they find out - so i now find people work harder to figure out if a disc is a good replacement or a set-up for a future one.

also, as amazon now uses a price averaging system and starts high, may not go low, and jumps around ... well, the amount of arguments or discussions that start with a pre-order link there and cries that relate to how these prices will not be assessable as reasonable or stable continues endlessly.

TWF is not hugely effected by these issues as much as it has gone from a DVD-only label that used to be around the £8.99 price point, to a label also managing BDs that have been pre-orderable for £10.99 at times and not at others - even though the window of releas is fairly similar and the films related in their source.

[thirdwindowfilms]

Originally Posted by logboy

absolutely, clearly understood. but there's a manipulation that's increasing in frequency - to falsely inflate BD prices because there's an expectation they'll be expensive due to increased basic production costs; elaborate packaging, limited runs, coloured cases, steelbooks or 'O' cards and so on.

there's also a myriad of other issues, such as the difficulty in getting a sense of certainty about BD being a noticeable upgrade (preferably without any SD, or poor elements that are unrestored essentially) from DVD - essentially BD shows the flaws in materials of lower budget films far more easily. companies seem to have more money to work with but are frequently found to be pretty quiet on the flaws they've not managed to avoid when in production, and they let the market buy into films before they find out - so i now find people work harder to figure out if a disc is a good replacement or a set-up for a future one.

also, as amazon now uses a price averaging system and starts high, may not go low, and jumps around ... well, the amount of arguments or discussions that start with a pre-order link there and cries that relate to how these prices will not be assessable as reasonable or stable continues endlessly.

TWF is not hugely effected by these issues as much as it has gone from a DVD-only label that used to be around the £8.99 price point, to a label also managing BDs that have been pre-orderable for £10.99 at times and not at others - even though the window of releas is fairly similar and the films related in their source.

not sure what you mean by "falsely inflate BD". Maybe Amazon pricing structure? You do realise that prices are not in our control? I put loads of BDs into a amazon q2 promo, dropping the prices to a 3 for 25quid structure, and yet for the whole of q2 they've been sold at 20quid. Amazon is really strange for their pricing, and it affects smaller labels more as less popular items tend to not have their prices dropped by amazon as they only drop prices on popular items (which is why sometimes a new release bluray pre-order can be between 8 and 10 yet a less popular pre-order will be 13.99 or more). It's really a complicated system which is out of our control, but that explains the "a label also managing BDs that have been pre-orderable for £10.99 at times and not at others"

Though, BDs ARE really expensive to make. I could replicate 1000 DVDs (including box, sleeve art, disc itself) for the price of just the AACS encyption charge on 1 bluray. There are loads of these sort of charges we need to pay per release and yearly to companies like AACS and Sony in order to be able to make and release blurays. I would much prefer to just release on DVD and not have these costs, and also be able to release cheaper, but people don't buy dvds anymore, and they also buy less blurays and physical media in general, so companies actually need to keep prices up by making limited editions and such in order to recoup. It used to be that dropping prices would help shift units, but that was when there were physical outlets, but now with Amazon only, and them controlling pricing, it means we need to actually recoup more per release as less people are buying in general. Either we make limited or special editions and sell for a higher price point, or the film cannot be released at all, and dropping the price to entice customers will in the end not increase the total number of units sold, just decrease the total amount of money as the same number of units are sold whether it be a cheap price point or mid point.
and with the dwindling market for physical media, why do you think that "companies seem to have more money to work with"? Not in a million years do they. it's just that we're trying to find better ways to recoup, and that is by making more limited and collectible versions of titles as a barebones cheap release vs a limited disc with a lot of effort put in, will probably sell the same number of units.

[logboy]

i suspect labels (in some cases, possibly increasingly-so) are trying to take their releases into individual places with their editions' aspects in order to make it harder to compare and quantify how an asking price sits in general market terms, especially in the less mainstream parts of the market ive followd for many years. sense this because of labels doing early variants & access that allow less retailers to wrangle the price lower to attract their share of customers & take their cut.

not sure how any company can balance compensating for lower physical sales with items at higher prices than has probably been previously possible, but perhaps this puts this delivery system for films on the edge of collapse, certainly heading towards more established collector-based than wider consumption from lower prices would allow, maybe.

i still buy physical because of the same reasons ive always done - to individualise my selection, but this now includes a consideration that no streaming service can yet be as dynamic as a disc buyer with multiregion or multizone capability. never found extras on dvds were much of a pull, but additional aspects to BDs - which were always higher in price than DVD of course - tend to be more lavish at times than necessary, and only add to what is typically asked, which seems perverse considering how much repetition of titles with good DVD exposure there has been.

[Takuma]

Any chance of Colonel Panics (website)? Saw it at Yubari and loved it. I thought I saw a familiar name somewhere in the closing credits, too (unless I'm mistaken).

[Cinematt]

Originally Posted by thirdwindowfilms

not sure what you mean by "falsely inflate BD". Maybe Amazon pricing structure? You do realise that prices are not in our control? I put loads of BDs into a amazon q2 promo, dropping the prices to a 3 for 25quid structure, and yet for the whole of q2 they've been sold at 20quid. Amazon is really strange for their pricing, and it affects smaller labels more as less popular items tend to not have their prices dropped by amazon as they only drop prices on popular items (which is why sometimes a new release bluray pre-order can be between 8 and 10 yet a less popular pre-order will be 13.99 or more). It's really a complicated system which is out of our control, but that explains the "a label also managing BDs that have been pre-orderable for £10.99 at times and not at others"

Though, BDs ARE really expensive to make. I could replicate 1000 DVDs (including box, sleeve art, disc itself) for the price of just the AACS encyption charge on 1 bluray. There are loads of these sort of charges we need to pay per release and yearly to companies like AACS and Sony in order to be able to make and release blurays. I would much prefer to just release on DVD and not have these costs, and also be able to release cheaper, but people don't buy dvds anymore, and they also buy less blurays and physical media in general, so companies actually need to keep prices up by making limited editions and such in order to recoup. It used to be that dropping prices would help shift units, but that was when there were physical outlets, but now with Amazon only, and them controlling pricing, it means we need to actually recoup more per release as less people are buying in general. Either we make limited or special editions and sell for a higher price point, or the film cannot be released at all, and dropping the price to entice customers will in the end not increase the total number of units sold, just decrease the total amount of money as the same number of units are sold whether it be a cheap price point or mid point.
and with the dwindling market for physical media, why do you think that "companies seem to have more money to work with"? Not in a million years do they. it's just that we're trying to find better ways to recoup, and that is by making more limited and collectible versions of titles as a barebones cheap release vs a limited disc with a lot of effort put in, will probably sell the same number of units.

Any indication that BD production costs will decrease with UHD coming in, does that become the new 'premium' option and BD drops, or is it just Ultra premium costs to go along with the Ultra high def?

It's becoming increasingly obvious that physical collectors are going to be paying through the nose to eep up the hobby. Whilst it's easy to laugh at people buying 30 year old vinyl re-issues for £30 in HMV, that's the future of the movie market too. Whilst I'll still hang on for £6 pricing on major studio releases (which are inevitable) you can wait years for a boutique title to go under a tenner. I'll continue to pre-order everything from TWF and take whatever best price I can on release day, as labels like this will be lost if we don't support them and it really is the boutiques that bring me the freshest, most interesting, new movies.

[thirdwindowfilms]

Originally Posted by Cinematt

Any indication that BD production costs will decrease with UHD coming in, does that become the new 'premium' option and BD drops, or is it just Ultra premium costs to go along with the Ultra high def?

It's becoming increasingly obvious that physical collectors are going to be paying through the nose to eep up the hobby. Whilst it's easy to laugh at people buying 30 year old vinyl re-issues for £30 in HMV, that's the future of the movie market too. Whilst I'll still hang on for £6 pricing on major studio releases (which are inevitable) you can wait years for a boutique title to go under a tenner. I'll continue to pre-order everything from TWF and take whatever best price I can on release day, as labels like this will be lost if we don't support them and it really is the boutiques that bring me the freshest, most interesting, new movies.

pressing costs have slightly come down, but since we're still talking about limited numbers (1000-2000) being pressed, they're still pretty high. Expenses come in the form of AACS charges which have to do with encryption and such, but they're a monopoly so no need for them to reduce costs to be honest...

[logboy]

Originally Posted by Cinematt

It's becoming increasingly obvious that physical collectors are going to be paying through the nose to eep up the hobby. Whilst it's easy to laugh at people buying 30 year old vinyl re-issues for £30 in HMV, that's the future of the movie market too.

that feels like a good parallel to me, and it's what's been on my mind recently, too. for me, i sense some labels are nervous and are compensating by presenting more lavish or somehow just basically different editions for their established fanbase - easier to justify to them that extra part of the price they charge when selling directly to them, and they'll stick-up for their interests in maintaining the value and status of their collections too. this makes an interest in films turn somewhat upside-down and inside-out, with a strong risk of less focus on getting the film choices that are of increasing interest - long-wanted, often-cut, and so on - shown in decent AV regards.

yes, there are still labels that do something both obscure and not hugely lavish in their packaging, with short runs and impressive transfers, and they attract some noticeable attention and respect ('camera obscura' from germany are impressive - not overpriced but still expensive yet good vfm, & hard to match for sophistication of choice and quality of presentation), but once some labels with very established and dedicated followings start to go for the something that's embellishing in a manner akin to the music market's spot-gloss printed die-cut sleeves with coloured vinyl, the market risks being pulled towards the territory that stubborn collectors tend to take things - one that relates to their sense it's unavoidably-justified and can't be countered with any argument to the contrary.

[Cinematt]

Went in to Fopp Covent Garden today, this is what they had:

BD £10
Tetsuo (slip)
Kikujiro (no slip)
Hana-bi (no slip)
Kids Return (slip)


BD £6
Tokyo Fist (no slip)
Woodsman and the Rain
Kamakaze Girls
Story of Yonosuke
Bullet Ballet (no slip)
Land of Hope
Confessions
Pluto
Love Exposure
Snake of June (no slip)
Ruined Heart (slip) - yes, still on at £6
Kotoko
Uzumasa Limelight
Han Gong-Ju
Lesson of Evil (no slip)
For Love's Sake
Vulgaria
Greatful Dead
Love and Peace

DVD £12
Miki Satoshi Collection

DVD £5
Tetsuo (slip)
Bullet Ballet (slip)
Tokyo Fist (slip)

DVD £3
Underwater Love
Bleak Night
Sae-Boi
Crime or Punishment
Makeup Room
Grateful Dead
Behind the Camera
Confessions of a Dog
See You Tomorrow, Everyone
Vulgaria
Funuke Show some love you losers
Wild Card
No. 3
Fukuchan of Fukufuku flats
Mitsuko Delivers
How to use Guys with Secret Tips
Teenage Hooker Became a Killing Machine
PTU
Quirky Guys and Gals
Isn't Anyone Alive
Instant Swamp
Boomerang Family
Say Yes
Fish Story
Cold Fish
Makeup Room
No Blood No Tears
For Loves Sake
Kotoko
Be My Baby
Uzumasa Limelight
Lesson of Evil
Memories of Matsuko
Han Gong-Ju
Lala Pipo
Sawako Decides
Oasis
Fine, Totally Fine
The President's Last Bang
Dasepo Naughty Girls
Shady
Guns and Talks
Serpents Path/Eyes of the Spider
Green Fish
Confessions
Pluto
Land of Hope
The Foreign Duck, The Native Ducky, and God in a Coin Locker
The Woodsman and the Rain
Story of Yonosuke
Kick the Moon
Kamikaze Girls

And I've now completed my Third Window Films blu-ray collection! All releases and everything with a slip if possible.