MoviePass

[ITDEFX101]

Well at least they didn't pull a best buy and forcing you to buy 3500 of shit a year to keep their elite plus level. I mostly pre-order Steelbooks and a few Deal of the day items but no big ticket items like TV's or Washer/Dryers from them. Surprisingly that has gotten me to over 1300 a year ? Really? I spend too much on Steelbooks lol.

[Cobb]

Originally Posted by MasturB

You talking about Atlantic Station?

Nah, that's a Regal. AMC Phipps Plaza 14 was what I was referring to.

[Jennifer Lawrence Fan]

Off to see I, Tonya now. Hopefully I like it.

I guess living in small town area pays off.

[ScarredLungs]

Originally Posted by cinemaphile

For now. But I see this as a warning shot. if other chains are willing to deal and AMC isnt, I can see them eventually removing all AMCs, which would suck for me because the only theaters within like an hour of me are all AMC

Lucky for me I'm not affected by this. That being said have any other chains really made deals with movie pass or have they just not complained about it since it is driving customers to the theater.

[Britnasty]

Originally Posted by cvm

Lucky for me I'm not affected by this. That being said have any other chains really made deals with movie pass or have they just not complained about it since it is driving customers to the theater.

MoviePass confirmed in their statement they have struck agreements with theatres:

"Ted Farnsworth, CEO of MoviePass parent Helios & Matheson, has said in reports that AMC has been ignoring MoviePass for a while and he has considered sending a letter to its board. MoviePass reportedly struck deals with close to 1,000 indie cinemas, in which it gets a $3 cut on ticket sales and/or 25% of concessions sales. Here’s the rub: While the major studios don’t mind MoviePass as they drive traffic (some in fact are shuffling marketing dollars toward them), exhibitors don’t like an outside company coming in and dictating the price of movie tickets to the public."

http://deadline.com/2018/01/moviepas...ge-1202269412/

[DanTheMan]

Originally Posted by Jennifer Lawrence Fan

Off to see I, Tonya now. Hopefully I like it.

About time.

[zahinn]

Originally Posted by Falaskan

How? It's only AMC theaters in highly populated areas.

It affects the Empire 25 in nyc... my go-to theatre.
It has the biggest selections too. So, I can usually just go there without worring too much. they have most of the movies and in various times.

...

But I'll be fine. I would just have to look around a bit more now.

[ScarredLungs]

Originally Posted by Britnasty

MoviePass confirmed in their statement they have struck agreements with theatres:

"Ted Farnsworth, CEO of MoviePass parent Helios & Matheson, has said in reports that AMC has been ignoring MoviePass for a while and he has considered sending a letter to its board. MoviePass reportedly struck deals with close to 1,000 indie cinemas, in which it gets a $3 cut on ticket sales and/or 25% of concessions sales. Here’s the rub: While the major studios don’t mind MoviePass as they drive traffic (some in fact are shuffling marketing dollars toward them), exhibitors don’t like an outside company coming in and dictating the price of movie tickets to the public."

http://deadline.com/2018/01/moviepas...ge-1202269412/

Gotcha. I had not had a chance to read the full statement.

[LegacyCosts]

Originally Posted by ArrestedDevelopment

I hate AMC but **** MoviePass for using it's subscribers as leverage. Mitch Lowe is a scumbag.

It really rubs me the wrong way. They know it doesn't matter though because the price is so freaking low that we're not going to cancel.

Everyone go use your passes like JLF to see I Tonya if you haven't. Its underrated around this forum.

[Destinys Memory]

Originally Posted by Unknown450

New TOS Email from Movie Pass is being sent out.

[Show spoiler]These are the AMC theatres that are no longer being accepted:

AMC Century City 15, Los Angeles, CA
AMC Mercado 20, Santa Clara, CA
AMC Disney Springs 24, Lake Buena Vista, FL
AMC Loews Boston Common 19, Boston, MA
AMC River East 21, Chicago, IL
AMC Mission Valley 20, San Diego, CA
AMC Tysons Corner 16, McLean, VA
AMC Veterans 24, Tampa, FL
AMC Loews Alderwood Mall 16, Lynwood, WA

Luckily this doesn't affect me since I don't have any AMC's in my city, sorry to those it affects.

This reddit post shows the TOS changes, not really much other than different wording. And that they now allow month to month, three months, and full year subs. Wasn't aware of the 3 month option before.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MoviePassCl...ervice_update/

You can still see the old terms through caching. They removed this paragraph, which was fairly important: "You will be notified of any price changes made to the terms of service prior to your next billing cycle, at which point you would have 14 days to opt-out of the Service and terminate your subscription. MoviePass will not make any changes to your subscription mid-cycle, all changes will be in affect at the start of your next billing cycle."

The way the new terms read, they are within their rights to change prices at absolutely any time (5 minutes from now if they want to) with no advance notice. That's a telling paragraph to remove. Keep an eye on your credit card statements, people.

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by Destinys Memory

You can still see the old terms through caching. They removed this paragraph, which was fairly important: "You will be notified of any price changes made to the terms of service prior to your next billing cycle, at which point you would have 14 days to opt-out of the Service and terminate your subscription. MoviePass will not make any changes to your subscription mid-cycle, all changes will be in affect at the start of your next billing cycle."

The way the new terms read, they are within their rights to change prices at absolutely any time (5 minutes from now if they want to) with no advance notice. That's a telling paragraph to remove. Keep an eye on your credit card statements, people.

I actually noticed that and I only skimmed the new terms, kinda scared to see it confirmed by someone else.

[Jennifer Lawrence Fan]

Used it today no problem seeing I, Tonya.

[Jennifer Lawrence Fan]

Originally Posted by DanTheMan

About time.

Well, my theater just got it. Talk to them.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by cinemaphile

Yeah, so are they saying because those theaters have high ticket prices, Moviepass won't cover them? So is that how MoviePass dies? By slowly weeding down the theaters you can use it at until only the crappiest, most remote ones are left?

From TechCrunch:

MoviePass, the monthly subscription service for seeing movies in theaters, has pulled out of 10 high-traffic AMC theaters, as a negotiating tactic with the theater chain. AMC, so far, has shown no interest in working with MoviePass or sharing revenue with the service for the foot traffic it brings to theaters.

For instance, in a call with analysts in last year, AMC’s chief executive Adam Aron said that while the theater chain appreciated MoviePass customers’ business, “AMC has absolutely no intention — I repeat, no intention — of sharing any — I repeat, any — of our admissions revenue or our concessions revenue.”

AMC had also previously threatened legal action against the service, which it said devalued the movie-going experience.

Now MoviePass is fighting back by pulling its service from some of AMC’s most-visited theaters, including, per Variety: The AMC Century City 15 in Los Angeles; AMC Mercado 20 in Santa Clara, Calif.; AMC Disney Springs 24 in Orlando, Fl.: AMC Loews Boston Common 19 in Boston; AMC River East 21 in Chicago; AMC Mission Valley 20 in San Diego; AMC Tysons Corner 16 in McLean, Va.; AMC Veterans 24 in Tampa; AMC Loews Alderwood Mall 16 in Lynwood, Wash.

The theaters weren’t losing money due to MoviePass, to be clear – if anything, they were seeing increased visits.

I don't know why Movie Pass thinks AMC is going to cave on this. While it's true that theater attendance sucks, theater chains are not going to split revenue to fill those seats.

But even aside from negotiating with AMC, ticket prices at big-city theatres are higher than what MoviePass charges for a month, so it was never going to work for them.

In 2017, the average ticket price across the U.S. was only $8.90 ($8.65 in 2016). But big city theaters charge much more, especially in New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco, probably Chicago and some others. Plus there are upcharges for IMAX, other large screen formats, 3D and Dolby Vision, although I don't think MoviePass ever covered those.

In Manhattan, AMC Theater prices at the Empire 25 and Lincoln Square are:
Regular films: $16.29 adult, $13.29 children or seniors
3d films: $4 upcharge
IMAX films: $25.29 adult, $22.29 children or seniors
Dolby Vision: $23.29 adult, $20.29 children or seniors.

Strangely, the AMC 84th St 6, which is a cruddier theater is charging even more:
Regular films: $19.99 adult, $16.99 children or seniors

The AMC Dine-In theatre in Hollywood is much less expensive:
Regular films: $14.50 adult, $12.50 seniors (kids aren't permitted)

AMC Universal City Walk:
Regular films: $17.75 adult, $16.25 senior, $14.75 children
IMAX films: $24.75 adult, $23.25 seniors, $21.75 child

AMC Santa Monica 7
Regular films: $14.79 adult, $13.29 senior, $11.75 children

AMC Metreon San Francisco
Regular films: $15.49 adult, $13.99 senior, $12.49 children
3d films: $4 uncharge on all tickets
IMAX films: $21.49 adult, $19.99 seniors, $18.49 child
Dolby Vision: $22.49 adult, $20.99 seniors, $19.49 child

MoviePass was never going to last anyway, because the only way they made money is if a subscriber saw fewer than 12 movies a year and only then if the ticket price didn't exceed the monthly fee. Their claims of being able to sell the subscriber data to make up the ticket price is ridiculous because no one is paying that much for user data. And their belief that they would eventually be subsidized by theater owners is absurd, even if the additional admissions did result in higher concession sales.

So it's not a surprise that they're limiting the theaters. What they should do instead, at least before the end the service entirely, is to say they'll pay X towards the price of any ticket and the customer makes up the difference. The advantage of that is that it could be used for IMAX, Dolby, 3D and Large Screen as well. But it wouldn't help with AMC because AMC doesn't want MoviePass to exist.

My bet is that Regal will be next. The Regal E-Walk in NYC is also very expensive:
Regular: $17.15 adults, $14.15 seniors and children
RPX: $23.15 adults, $20.15 seniors and children
4DX 2d: $26.15 adults, $23.15 seniors and children
4DX 3d: $30.65 adults, $27.65 seniors and children

[cinemaphile]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

I don't know why Movie Pass thinks AMC is going to cave on this. While it's true that theater attendance sucks, theater chains are not going to split revenue to fill those seats.

Because MoviePass is driving a lot of people into theaters, and if AMC doesn't want to cooperate and MoviePass directs all of their customers to other chains instead, then AMC loses all that additional business.
And Movie Pass Isn't asking to take a percentage of revenue from all ticket sales, just those tickets bought with MoviePass - the customers they brought to into the theater.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by cinemaphile

Because MoviePass is driving a lot of people into theaters, and if AMC doesn't want to cooperate and MoviePass directs all of their customers to other chains instead, then AMC loses all that additional business.
And Movie Pass Isn't asking to take a percentage of revenue from all ticket sales, just those tickets bought with MoviePass - the customers they brought to into the theater.

Movie theaters have never split revenue with anyone (aside from the distributors). That's why when you reserve a ticket online through one of the services, there's an upcharge. The margins are slim enough without sharing revenue. If they were to cooperate with MoviePass and enough people used it, they would wind up increasing their prices.

MoviePass may be sending more people into theaters, but it's customers who are unwilling to pay anything near a regular price for a movie. And while it remains to be seen, I suspect those same customers wouldn't spend much on expensive concessions.

And with the reduction of seat counts with the installation of lounge seating plus newer theaters having much smaller seating capacities combined with theaters that have closed, theaters don't need MoviePass or anything like it for most weekend shows because they're filling the seats anyway. However, weekdays are another matter and most theaters are empty. So there eventually may be a compromise where AMC and/or other chains are willing to split revenue Monday-Thursday, especially during the day, but not on weekends. But it won't matter, because even if MoviePass picks up a few dollars per ticket, there's still no way they can earn a profit unless people don't use the service but still pay for the subscription. There's no way they can sell enough data to make up for people seeing an average of even just two movies a month.

[Destinys Memory]

Originally Posted by cinemaphile

Because MoviePass is driving a lot of people into theaters, and if AMC doesn't want to cooperate and MoviePass directs all of their customers to other chains instead, then AMC loses all that additional business.
And Movie Pass Isn't asking to take a percentage of revenue from all ticket sales, just those tickets bought with MoviePass - the customers they brought to into the theater.

It was linked one page back in the thread (people ignored it), but The Verge went into how MoviePass is lying about their figures:

https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/26/1...ings-statement

MoviePass' claims about its importance to AMC Theatres are grossly deceptive

...AMC posted Q1 2017 admissions revenue of $817.3 million. Using MoviePass' own projection, its contributions to AMC's revenue would actually amount to just 4.2% -- hardly the windfall the MoviePass statement attempts to project...

And it's not just ticket sales, MoviePass is also trying to strong-arm AMC into giving up concessions revenue.

...According to Deadline, MoviePass has been pressuring AMC for a $3 cut on all tickets sold through MoviePass, as well as 20% of the concessions that those audience numbers generate...

And AMC has been clear, they will not be sharing any concessions revenues:

...AMC CEO Adam Aron said in a November earnings conference call, “”MoviePass paid AMC, according to our records, $11.88 for each and every ticket that it purchased for our mutual guest. That’s quite a gap, $9.95 a month versus $11.88 a visit. I must point out that’s very gracious of them and we appreciate their business, but I think it’s also important to make clear that despite claims they’ve made to the contrary, AMC has absolutely no intention, I repeat no intention, of sharing any – I repeat, any, of our admissions revenue or our concessions revenue with MoviePass.”

AMC's statement from yesterday, after MoviePass' claims:

AMC has taken no action to block the acceptance of MoviePass at our theatres. We have no further comment about MoviePass' unilateral actions. We are, however, disappointed that MoviePass continues to make false statements about AMC, including today when MoviePass greatly exaggerated its contributions to AMC's profitability.

[LegacyCosts]

If spotify can survive providing limitless streaming on millions of albums for 9.99 a month, why can't movie pass continue to exist? Different I know but maybe someone with more knowledge than me on how they both can survive can enlighten me.

[steve_dave]

Originally Posted by LegacyCosts

If spotify can survive providing limitless streaming on millions of albums for 9.99 a month, why can't movie pass continue to exist? Different I know but maybe someone with more knowledge than me on how they both can survive can enlighten me.

Spotify has a free option that has ads, they get money from that. Some artists and labels even pay Spotify to be part of Spotify Sessions.

Music streaming is also cheaper since the streaming companies pay low fees to labels for royalty coverage. This is why some artists take a long time to come to streaming services... dispute over fees that roll down to them.

MoviePass is paying full price per ticket: $13 average, see 18 movies conservatively - $234.

You paid them $10 for those. Even with over a million subscribers, there is an imbalance.

With music most people have favorites that end up in playlists. Newly released songs are added over time by these users but some months many users don't add new music. So that $10 a month covered you for music but Spotify pays them a low royalty payment. That's why they recommend music you may like to get you to listen more and keep the royalty payments flowing.

[LegacyCosts]

Originally Posted by steve_dave

Spotify has a free option that has ads, they get money from that. Some artists and labels even pay Spotify to be part of Spotify Sessions.

Music streaming is also cheaper since the streaming companies pay low fees to labels for royalty coverage. This is why some artists take a long time to come to streaming services... dispute over fees that roll down to them.

MoviePass is paying full price per ticket: $13 average, see 18 movies conservatively - $234.

You paid them $10 for those. Even with over a million subscribers, there is an imbalance.

With music most people have favorites that end up in playlists. Newly released songs are added over time by these users but some months many users don't add new music. So that $10 a month covered you for music but Spotify pays them a low royalty payment. That's why they recommend music you may like to get you to listen more and keep the royalty payments flowing.

Thank you!

I can only see about 4-5 movies a month at a theatre but with 14 dollar tickets near me its still a heck of a deal. People seeing like 20 films a month, yeah I can see how that would put them out of business pretty fast.