4K Ultra HD releases not offering the quality of what the format is capable of

[Geoff D]

The BDA tested lots of different names and logos and whatnot for this format, even discussing amongst themselves whether to have different notations for 2K and 4K material (not that an upscale would've been marketed as 2K). But, in the end, the cat was out of the bag thanks to Sony's aggressive push for 4K five years ago and the name stuck in the public consciousness.

[Nothing371]

factual journalism died last decade with the rise of the internet. being first/clicked/read is all that matters now. the more sensational or off-kilter, the more people talk about it, the better.

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by Kris Deering

Who wrote the article??

Contributing Editor Doug Blackburn at Widescreen Review magazine wrote the long essay answer to a letter that Howard Jones sent to Widescreen Review.


https://www.widescreenreview.com/

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Love that "100 percent of the movies from Paramount, Universal, Warner Bros, and other related studios are not really UHD resolution" quote, you've just got to love well-informed journalism like this. It literally reads like some mook who's just bought a 4K TV who's wondering why UHD doesn't look as good as a Blu-ray on Torch mode.

This is precisely why I don't listen to the established "voices" in the tech community: they keep proving themselves to be complete IDIOTS.

I have seen some 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray titles that are really 2K quality and upscaled to 4K Ultra HD, but because of HDR and because HEVC being a better codec those titles sometimes look around 5% better when compared to the standard 1080P Blu-ray release.


As technology improves and storage gets more cheaper, I am sure one day all studios well use 4K or higher digital intermediates like Sony currently does (and 50% of Lionsgate titles do). On a side note since the 1939 Wizard of Oz and Gone With the Wind received a 8K scan of the original film negative, those two titles would be ideal for release on the 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray format.


According to Joe Kane in another article (pages 42,44, and 45 in the June 2018 issue) one needs a 6 foot image to properly see what is in a 1080P image and a 12 foot wide image to see what is in a 2160P image. And a 24 foot image is needed to see all the detail in a 4360P image. So most people well be able to see a better picture from a 720P HDR image when compared to a 2160P image that does not use HDR. Yes HDR is more important for picture quality when compared to resolution detail.

It sounds like sometimes the images we are getting on 4K Ultra HD come from 480i and 720p source material and not even 1080P quality.

Here is a few interesting quotes from page 44 and page 45:


"A lot of what follows supports the presenter's position that resolution above 1080p isn't important. I am expanding on this parameter because I want 720p and 1080p and 2160p to be part of UHD and HDR."


"You could have a 2160p image with only 720p resolution in the content. That's how I justify wanting 720p to be part of consumer HDR. I don't see a lot of program content remotely approaching 2160p in real resolution, let alone 1080p."

[ROSS.T.G.]

[KcMsterpce]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

According to Joe Kane in another article (pages 42,44, and 45 in the June 2018 issue) one needs a 6 foot image to properly see what is in a 1080P image and a 12 foot wide image to see what is in a 2160P image. And a 24 foot image is needed to see all the detail in a 4360P image.

Well, Joe Kane is an NOT an idiot.
Just because he's published words on a website doesn't mean he's an authority on the subject.

I'll make it really simple:
- My grandma wouldn't care, or notice a difference between watching Maury Povich on a 27" CRT in standard def versus seeing it on a 200" screen in 6k with balanced HDR.
I can. Big time.

- My dad can't notice the difference between frame interpolation being ON, versus being OFF.
Frame interpolation gives me a headache, and it looks like shit.

- My cousin couldn't tell the boost in audio fidelity when I switched from Layer Cake's DTS (auto started at that setting) track, to PCM.
For me, it was night and day. Immediately.

- A 1080p presentation at 65" has a lot to offer versus 720p. From ten feet away. For me.
For my grandma, she could be 5 feet away and still wouldn't know which is which.

... So, for that Joe Kane dude to make all these pointless comparisons with arbitrary numbers and comments... it's based on the concept that everyone can perceive details with the same scrutiny.


I love HDR, but it can be a botch job.
However, my grandma would say "What?! HD-WHAT?! I don't know. Can I watch my Maury now?!"

[nick4Knight]

Actually Joe Kane is a supremely knowledge video consultant.. lol So I mean he's done more than "published words on a website" on the matter of 4K. Yes, there could still be professional differences as far as the science behind this stuff. But far as I know he is involved on some level in the association on specs/standards.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by KcMsterpce

Just because he's published words on a website doesn't mean he's an authority on the subject.

No, not because of that. He is an authority on the subject, though.

Originally Posted by KcMsterpce

... So, for that Joe Kane dude to make all these pointless comparisons with arbitrary numbers and comments... it just makes him look stupid. From my perspective.

Speaking of comments making people look stupid, I would recommend a little more research into "that Joe Kane dude's" work before you continue to spout opinions about it. "Pointless comparisons with arbitrary numbers" it is not.

[ronboster]

Originally Posted by KcMsterpce

Well, Joe Kane is an idiot.
Just because he's published words on a website doesn't mean he's an authority on the subject.

I've visited Joe Kane's website and bought his video essentials calibration discs.

http://www.videoessentials.com/

Where can I find your work on the topic? Not saying there shouldn't be a sound or healthy disagreement....but calling Joe Kane an idiot....well....

[Agent Kay]

He is a little stuck in his ways at times

[fighthefutureofhd]

Joe kane?

[Geoff D]

"5% better"

[gkolb]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

"5% better"

Not 4%, and not 6%. Over the centuries, it’s been proven that 5% is the magic ratio, and in the year 2525, it was proven mathematically Oops, I wasn’t supposed to reveal that item, mindwipe will commence in 5 4 3 2 1........

[jibucha]

far from it and extremely unfair (that's extremely disrespectful as he has contributed so much over the years to the benefit to the consumer electronics industry and consumers)

Originally Posted by KcMsterpce

Well, Joe Kane is an idiot.

[Agent Kay]

Originally Posted by jibucha

far from it and extremely unfair (that's extremely disrespectful as he has contributed so much over the years to the benefit to the consumer electronics industry and consumers)

He is very far from an idiot, he is stuck in the past and out of touch tho.

[KcMsterpce]

Alright, I apologize for calling Joe Kane an idiot.
If I said "Joe Kane is an idiot" when I was in front of you, you could probably see the half-smirk on my face implying that I'm having a laugh. That I wasn't dead serious with the comment. If I was on camera, I'd look at the lens and just stare blankly for a few seconds, maybe blinking once or twice. Then, jump cut to later in the discussion.
It would not appear as literal as it does in text.
I often speak sarcastically, and that comes through differently in my writing. I love sarcasm.

So, I retract my previous statement.

[jibucha]

not so (if anything he is and always has been 'far ahead' of consumers/industry/manufacturers)

many years ago he presented an comprehensive UHD 'check list' (each of us as consumers with an concern/interest in picture quality would be overwhelmed were we to actually 'see' his vision) - (time will tell - future - not past - yet to come, if ever)

if anything his being a 'futurist' or contemporary realist is fairest (most of us are simply playing catch up to his foresight/comprehensiveness/knowledge base)

highly recommended :: my advice to anyone that already is not familiar with his accomplishments/contributions/forward thinking, should do 'extensive research' becoming aware/familiar with his history/future :: (over decades of awareness of his presence, i too have disagreed (rarely so) with some of his points (problem though - for myself - in the ensuing years later, i continually found myself eventually agreeing, realizing my error in thought and his correctness/insight/knowledge - in the long run - it just took me awhile - to catch up with his foresight, that i 'was found lacking') :: i appreciate his accomplishments more every day, especially regarding UHD/HDR in the forthcoming years

Originally Posted by Agent Kay

He is very far from an idiot, he is stuck in the past and out of touch tho.

[StingingVelvet]

While I agree this seems crazy to us, I do think that for CASUAL, MAINSTREAM consumers the difference between Jurassic World on BD and Jurassic World on UHD is going to be seen as suuuuuuuuper minor. When there's a remaster involved (Mission: Impossible for example) it's different, but for new releases and such? They're barely going to notice.

However I think the idea of the format being a mainstream one is ridiculous on its face, so it's irrelevant.

[cgpublic]

Originally Posted by IntelliVolume

But why not? I mean, WHY call it UHD or 4K if that's not what it actually IS (from a NATIVE standpoint)?

Because perception precedes reality, and the terms Ultra HD and 4K (four times the resolution), along with Atmos, are created to impart an emotional trigger that this is the next big leap in TV/audio/media content, i.e., shiny new thing, and not, same thing but incrementally improved.

No one is going to replace every asset, TV, receiver, player and cable, in their home theater chain, along with double dips for media, so that they can join the Blu-Ray Plus club.

What we have now, UHD, is superior to what we had before, Blu-ray. How superior is in the eyes, and ears, of the beholder. All the pieces are not yet in place, but they will come in time. The time to make to jump is really up to the individual.

[IntelliVolume]

Originally Posted by cgpublic

Because perception precedes reality, and the terms Ultra HD and 4K (four times the resolution), along with Atmos, are created to impart an emotional trigger that this is the next big leap in TV/audio/media content, i.e., shiny new thing

Kinda proves the point about it not really being an accurate representation of the presentation.