Surge Protector or Power Conditioner?

[crackinhedz]

Have a question reguarding power supply...

Both my father and I use a standard surge protectors (Monster MPHT700HP) for our hometheater set-ups...but was wondering if anyone knowledgeable with electricity and what not would know if maybe a Power Conditioner (Monster MP HTS 1600) would be any better?? if so what kind of benefit would it give?

Im asking more for my dad as he lives in Florida and thunderstorms all the time...Im in Virginia, so power outage and surges are not too comon...but we defintiely want to be on the safe side.

Thanks to all

[SS316SRV]

Originally Posted by crackinhedz

Have a question reguarding power supply...

Both my father and I use a standard surge protectors (Monster MPHT700HP) for our hometheater set-ups...but was wondering if anyone knowledgeable with electricity and what not would know if maybe a Power Conditioner (Monster MP HTS 1600) would be any better?? if so what kind of benefit would it give?

Im asking more for my dad as he lives in Florida and thunderstorms all the time...Im in Virginia, so power outage and surges are not too comon...but we defintiely want to be on the safe side.

Thanks to all

I personally think that a power conditioner is better than a surge protecter. A surge protecter will put a ceiling on your power, but wont protect fluxuations under that ceiling. A conditioner should control all fluxuations in the elecrtic supply. I believe that they are necessary because of the precise power needs of these advanced TVs and surround sound systems. I personally believe that it is hard to spend too much on power protection.

I am interested in hearing what others think.

[slpbird]

I would recommend a power conditioner. I personally do not have one at this time just waiting to bite the bullet and spend the $400.00 for one.

[CptGreedle]

There is one more thing you can get that will help in the case of a power outage... they sell power boxes that contain batteries. They keep themselves charged with the current of electricity from the wall and you plug your devices into that. Then if there are surges in power it protects against them, and if there is a drop or even total loss in power, it can give you up to 5 minutes of power before it dies. That should let you turn off everything before the power goes. It's better for the devices.

[SS316SRV]

Originally Posted by CptGreedle

There is one more thing you can get that will help in the case of a power outage... they sell power boxes that contain batteries. They keep themselves charged with the current of electricity from the wall and you plug your devices into that. Then if there are surges in power it protects against them, and if there is a drop or even total loss in power, it can give you up to 5 minutes of power before it dies. That should let you turn off everything before the power goes. It's better for the devices.

I know Monster makes some pretty insane Constant Power Supplies and Voltage Converters that do the samething...except Monster's cost about $1500+

[Manco]

PS AUDIO

PS Audio makes the best power conditioners in the industry, actually called power generators. Way beyond what I can afford.

Furman

Furman also makes a very good product. But these are more like glorified surge protectors. I use these and do see a somewhat enhanced picture and sound quality. These are much more affordable but some will lecture that they make no difference and don't waste your money. Your call.

[Pilam69]

Originally Posted by CptGreedle

There is one more thing you can get that will help in the case of a power outage... they sell power boxes that contain batteries. They keep themselves charged with the current of electricity from the wall and you plug your devices into that. Then if there are surges in power it protects against them, and if there is a drop or even total loss in power, it can give you up to 5 minutes of power before it dies. That should let you turn off everything before the power goes. It's better for the devices.

I keep thinking I should drop the coin and pick one up but I talk myself out of it. Personally I run everything through a power conditioner and THEN to surge protectors just because. I think the power conditioner is more than enough protection but I already had the surge protectors so.........

I think with today's electronics it is super important to keep the power to them at an even keel. Especially when the smallest thing is noticeable in HD. That's why I have a power conditioner. I highly recommend them. Check out Newegg for some really good deals on them from time to time. Mine was regularly $400 marked down to $200 when I bought it last year.

Be aware that they do not last forever and that you do get what you pay for. You don't need a Monster power conditioner but you should get a name brand and understand exactly what you are paying for.

[maximiza]

I sell electronic components and it really depends on your local area. Some areas have more unstable electric supplies then others. I know here in NYC you can get spikes and surges that can throw off electronic equipment. I have usually seen conditioners used for lab equipment, telephone systems, and security systems. Depending on a computer setup you might need one too. With home audio to get ride of some back ground loop noise it could be used but sometimes the problem is actually in the structures electrical system and has to be fixed.

You can check out Sola/Heavy Duty and Tripp Lite too never heard of complaints of quality

[m6bigdog]

Originally Posted by maximiza

I sell electronic components and it really depends on your local area. Some areas have more unstable electric supplies then others. I know here in NYC you can get spikes and surges that can throw off electronic equipment. I have usually seen conditioners used for lab equipment, telephone systems, and security systems. Depending on a computer setup you might need one too. With home audio to get ride of some back ground loop noise it could be used but sometimes the problem is actually in the structures electrical system and has to be fixed.

You can check out Sola/Heavy Duty and Tripp Lite too never heard of complaints of quality

I design build and install this stuff and what I said is the power quality in the US is typically very good without a need for conditioning and the TVSS is a good device for what it dose, just don't expect it to solve problems of A/V PQ & AQ.
Yep, there are section of the US that could use an upgrade.
As far real power conditioning, these devices will often cost more than the equipment it is supplying. Unless you understand the specific problem you need to solve you can spend a lot on money on equipment and get no benefit.

I don't need to check with Sola, TrippLite, etc, as I return their lifetime warrantee stuff all the time due to the internal TVSS failure. The TVSS (MOV) failure is why they put the status lights on them. Also read their instruction, they expect the device to fail at some point.

Power conditioners do not solve ground loops.
Ground loops are cause by miss wired equipment, faulty building wiring or poor cabling and interconnection practices. Most often a ground and neutral swap that causes current to flow on the ground wire. Equipment designers understand the connection requirements that prevent the hum and noise from ground loops and design accordingly. However if you just start plugging equipment in to any outlet you find I anticipate you will have problems.
I suggest using a single receptacle with a power strip (get one with a TVSS) to power your equipment and if you need more than one 15-20 amp breakers worth you will want to use another receptacle with a breaker on the same phase.

[gvortex7]

I live in South Florida and due to inclement weather we probably get as many if not more power outages/surges than most of the US. All I use are 20-40 dollar surge protectors which I have about 5 of, and I have never had any surge damaged units while I've lived here (about 15 years now). So, I think that for most people surge protectors are a pretty safe and cost effective way to go.

As far as brand as concerned:

APC, Curtis and Acoustic Research are good and relatively inexpensive. Especially if you get them with an employee discount, like me.

Monster is good too, but way overpriced as usual.

I do agree with some of the other posters that some areas are definitely better than others in the US as far as stability of electric supplies are concerned.

[crackinhedz]

Ok, Just won me a Monster HTS 5100 Reference PowerCenter Stage 4 (v.2.0) on Ebay and was wondering if its safe to plug it in through a Surge Protector that I already have? or is it best to just connect to wall outlet?

[clyon]

Originally Posted by crackinhedz

Ok, Just won me a Monster HTS 5100 Reference PowerCenter Stage 4 (v.2.0) on Ebay and was wondering if its safe to plug it in through a Surge Protector that I already have? or is it best to just connect to wall outlet?

It is it's own surge protector. In the back it has a little button & if you un screw the little 'nut' there a fuss in there.

I got my Monster HTS 5000mkII (the same but mine has an analog display) pluged into my Monster avs2000 & I have APC UBS (back-up power) plug into the HTS 5000mkII for my RPtv.

[Themoth]

Originally Posted by crackinhedz

Ok, Just won me a Monster HTS 5100 Reference PowerCenter Stage 4 (v.2.0) on Ebay and was wondering if its safe to plug it in through a Surge Protector that I already have? or is it best to just connect to wall outlet?

you'll love it I have the 3600 mkII and it rocks...

[kingofgrills]

Originally Posted by crackinhedz

Ok, Just won me a Monster HTS 5100 Reference PowerCenter Stage 4 (v.2.0) on Ebay and was wondering if its safe to plug it in through a Surge Protector that I already have? or is it best to just connect to wall outlet?

Just connect it to the wall. It is the surge protector, and it will do fine by itself. It has separate pathways and filter systems for both audio and video componentry, so it can better defeat different types of interference. I don't have the 5100, but I do have a HTS 3500 MK II as well as a HTS 2600 MK II. I think you'll be pleased with your picture and sound using the 5100.

[Manco]

Originally Posted by m6bigdog

Power conditioners do not solve ground loops.
Ground loops are cause by miss wired equipment, faulty building wiring or poor cabling and interconnection practices. Most often a ground and neutral swap that causes current to flow on the ground wire. Equipment designers understand the connection requirements that prevent the hum and noise from ground loops and design accordingly. However if you just start plugging equipment in to any outlet you find I anticipate you will have problems.
I suggest using a single receptacle with a power strip (get one with a TVSS) to power your equipment and if you need more than one 15-20 amp breakers worth you will want to use another receptacle with a breaker on the same phase.

YEP. Reverse Polarity I assume of what you speak. When I bought my home in SoCal built in the 1930's, nearly every outlet was out of phase. It was all that old cotton-cased wiring (a total fire hazard) plus a hodge-podge of BX mixed in where prior owners had tried to add new outlets. Tore everything out including the panel. Now everything has its own circuit. I got a big hug from my electronics.

[MouseRider]

There are many levels of power "cleaning" products out there.

Surge Protectors
This is your most basic. Cheap and it really doesn't make sense not to have these, even if you just have a $100 HTiB. At various levels of performance, these things try to prevent power spikes.

Examples: Tripp Lite, Monster Power, Curtis

Power Conditioners
These have circuitry in them to try and keep the power constant, so no spikes and dips. More expensive of course but useful if you are in a rural areas or areas with noisy mains and brownouts.

Examples: APC, Monster Power, Panamax

Uninterruptible Power Supply
UPS systems will almost always come with power conditioners, so no spikes and dips, plus no instant power loss when your mains go out so you have a chance to turn things off properly. A little more expensive but very useful if you are in places where you might lose mains often due to poor electrical infrastructure, bad weather, etc.

Just a note, there are two types of UPS systems, online and offline. Most of the UPS systems you can buy at the consumer stores are "offline" systems, that means that they have a switching mechanism which, when mains power is lost, it switches to battery power.

Because of this switching, there is often a very short interval, in the millisecond range (for modern UPS) which most power supplies will ignore though if you have very sensitive equipment, this could cause problems (this is rare for modern equipment).

Examples: APC, Tripp Lite

Regeneration Systems
Online UPS systems are regeneration systems but not all regeneration systems are UPSes. Basically an online UPS can be considered to be a regeneration system with a battery backup.

A regeneration system basically takes AC power from your wall/mains, turns it into DC and then turns it back into AC for your equipment.

This ensures a stable and clean AC source for your equipment, so 120V/60Hz is always going to be 120V/60Hz with perfect sine waves regardless of what crap is coming in from your utility or if someone in your house turns on a vacuum cleaner in another room.

This is the pinnacle of clean power and protection devices, the most expensive of the bunch and as The Guardian said, if you have a darn good system and good ears, you can actually hear the difference as power affects how amplifiers and other components, especially analog stage components, perform.

This level of protection and cleaning makes sense if you have many thousands of dollars of good equipment to protect.

Examples: APC, PurePower

Bottom Line?

Basically how much you do you want to pay to protect your investment, which incidentally, most devices these days come with some sort of insurance policy for the equipment connected to it. Make sure to read the fine print.

[ESUNintel]

If you really want to be on the safe side go with a power conditioner. Monter is great; however, I would highly recommend Panamax. I own two, electricity goes, and I have had no issues.

I haven't had problems with good surge protectors either (like Belkin or Monster), but at least if you get a good power conditioner you know your protected, and that way you won't have to say "Should have gotten that power conditioner over this crappy surge protector," if something were to happen.

...plus the power conditioner looks nice in a home theater set-up

[C6 Z06]

I just added the Monster HDP 2400. Seems like a good unit and I like the sleek design. I'm glad to have the "clean power" but not really sure I need it. Oh well.

[Iceman_II]

Not really sure why people here are using power conditioners and surge surpressors in addition to UPS's

UPSs condition the power and suppress surges... to add these into a UPS system seems a bit redundant.

[puts on engineers hat]
Not to come across as a monster hater... but give me a freakin' break... if you want to spend that kind of coin to make yourself feel better, fine, but don't kid yourself into thinking that you actually need that kind of overkill... we are watching movies using off the shelf equipment that is DESIGNED to accept the small variances inherent in the public power grid... we are NOT running cyclotrons bombarding atoms trying to find the nature of the universe, where a .0001% variance in power could cause the end of life as we know it....

It's Home Theater for Gods sake, NOT rocket science!

FWIW, I have the PS3 and the Dish ViP-622 on a UPS and see absolutely no need to do anything more

[crackinhedz]

Originally Posted by Iceman_II

Not really sure why people here are using power conditioners and surge surpressors in addition to UPS's

UPSs condition the power and suppress surges... to add these into a UPS system seems a bit redundant.

[puts on engineers hat]
Not to come across as a monster hater... but give me a freakin' break... if you want to spend that kind of coin to make yourself feel better, fine, but don't kid yourself into thinking that you actually need that kind of overkill... we are watching movies using off the shelf equipment that is DESIGNED to accept the small variances inherent in the public power grid... we are NOT running cyclotrons bombarding atoms trying to find the nature of the universe, where a .0001% variance in power could cause the end of life as we know it....

It's Home Theater for Gods sake, NOT rocket science!

FWIW, I have the PS3 and the Dish ViP-622 on a UPS and see absolutely no need to do anything more

any good "UPS" recommendations?