Poll: Should Sony use DTS-HD Master Audio or Dolby TrueHD?

[Prof. Utonium]

Lossless is lossless and I wouldn't care either way if I had an HDMI receiver but, I'm currently limited to DD and DTS with my equipment and I really appreciate the 1.5 Mb/sec DTS core on the DTS-MA tracks.

[UKTruBlu]

I know lossless is lossless and all that but there is a definate difference from the Audio TruHD from say Dark Knight and Transformers, compared with the PCM and DTS HD of say Pirates of the Carribean and Wanted.

I know this always starts a debate, but you can definatley hear the difference, and i think that will always boil down to the Bitrate of said Audio Format. The bit rates in DTS HD MA are usually that bit higher than in True HD....Just an opinion.

But nevertheless the different audio codecs has not stopped my enjoyment of the fime in any way, and i suppose that if the True HD bothers people that much, use the DD core track instead!!!!

[trans22]

Originally Posted by tvine2000

louder doesn't make it better.the dialogue quiet is the way they mixed it.
try the blind fold test,i bet you won't hear any difference between the two.

it wasn,t like that at the cinema, the dialogue was loud and crisp which was dts by the way.

[davcole]

I don't think any that has a preference for a lossless codec, believes that "mathmatically" they are not the same. A lossless codec is bit accurate to the master and that cannot be disputed. However i'm not sure I buy that they don't have a sonic difference when decoded?

For the purposes of consideration by the studio, it would be interesting to know what percentage of BD players are capable of either passing or decoding DTS-MA.

[Blaumann]

I voted for a change to DTS-HD MA.

The lossless side of both codecs is the same, so that wouldn't matter to me. However imo the 1.5 DTS core of DTS-HD MA is an advantage over the 640 DD embedded audio track for DTHD. Going towards the mainstream market, where lossless playback might not be as common as it is for the early adopters who imo would tend to upgrade for the feature, stronger legacy playback might be a good thing.

[davcole]

Originally Posted by Cinema Squid

The only problem with this statement is that it is not always necessarily true in a real-world environment. Dialnorm settings and average decibel levels are the common culprits for subjective perceptual differences, but there have been frequent cases of monkey-business going on with TrueHD tracks with least-significant-bits sample truncation and even different bit-depths allocated across the channels. Maybe in these cases it is an accurate reflection of the source, but I somehow doubt it - obviously I cannot prove this since I do not have the uncompressed source files to measure error.

I agree and another consideration to make is that we are talking consumer grade equipment. We don't have science labs with bench tests to scientifically measure if they are the same, all we have are our ears and our equipment.

While I can never for the life of me understand why dialnorm would even be necessary on recorded media, i've no doubt that it can affect our perception of sound, even when compensating by turning the volume up. I think the big difference may be that dialnorm is a default for TRUEHD/DD whereas it may not be a default for DTSMA/DTS. I've a suspicion that Disney is using dialnorm on their DTSMA tracks as I normally have to turn the volume up on their titles (and honestly less impressed with Disney's DTSMA titles) but that's another thread all together.

[seigneur_rayden]

Please give me DTS-HD MA. Technically the lossless can be the same. However, in real-life, it is not true.
DTS HD MA always sound better than True HD. It is more dynamic, punchier and alive. With True HD I always have to increase the volume 3 to 5 db louder.
There are very few good True HD (Transformers, TDK, Sukiyaki Western Django). On the other side, there are tons of good DTS HD MA tracks.
I always wished Sony would change to DTS HD MA. I hope it will become reality.
Isn't the higher the bit rate, the lesser the compression is and the higher the quality compared to the master will be.

SONY IF U READ THIS, PLEASE SWITCH TO DTS HD MA ALREADY.

[Hep]

Originally Posted by Cinema Squid

The only problem with this statement is that it is not always necessarily true in a real-world environment. Dialnorm settings and average decibel levels are the common culprits for subjective perceptual differences, but there have been frequent cases of monkey-business going on with TrueHD tracks with least-significant-bits sample truncation and even different bit-depths allocated across the channels. Maybe in these cases it is an accurate reflection of the source, but I somehow doubt it - obviously I cannot prove this since I do not have the uncompressed source files to measure error.

Unfortunately you aren't grasping the issue. Turn your DRC off and match the volume levels and the experts who can measure errors are saying that the waveforms are identical. No subjectivity. If your equipment is causing you trouble that is a separate issue.

[davcole]

Originally Posted by Hep

Unfortunately you aren't grasping the issue. Turn dialnorm off and match the volume levels and the experts who can measure errors are saying that the waveforms are identical. No subjectivity. If your equipment is causing you trouble that is a separate issue.

With respect, I think that's the main issue with dialnorm, it can't be disabled by the end user, it's just there.

Even if you adjust the volume to compensate, it doesn't remove dialnorm.

[Hep]

Originally Posted by davcole

With respect, I think that's the main issue with dialnorm, it can't be disabled by the end user, it's just there.

Even if you adjust the volume to compensate, it doesn't remove dialnorm.

Of course you are right about the ability to select dialnorm, I meant to say ensure your DRC is selected off and adjust the levels to match. Here is a good article about dialnorm that dispels some myths.

[davcole]

Thanks for the clarification.

I have to admit, when it comes to codecs and while I agree they basically sound the same, the bane of my existence when it comes to TRUEHD is DRC. The way my Onkyo receiver is, it defaults to AUTO instead of OFF so anytime a TRUEHD track has the DRC engaged (Iron Man, Bourne Ultimatum on HD DVD) I have to reach for my original remote, change the late night setting to off each time you turn your receiver on.

[moe]

I believe that Sony should go to DTS-HD because I have always like DTS a lot better then Dolby True. As I read in one reveiw the Dolby True sounds just like Dolby Digital. I would hope Sony go to DTS-HD because I always felt Casino Royale needed one. That is to date out of 22 James Bonds the only one without a DTS. Another reason is because the only Sony movie with a DTS to date which is Close Encounters of the Third Kind sounds amazing on Blu-ray with a DTS-HD. So I hope in the future Columbia goes with DTS-HD because there is many movies I would enjoy. For example would have been Ghost Busters, Godzilla, Casino Royale, and Glory. The Reason I don't have many is because I bought several Columbia Movies on Superbit with a DTS. But I have a feeling they won't last forever. So please Sony go with a DTS-HD Master Audio.

[Grim Reaper]

every movie on bd should use dts-hd ma.

[Cinema Squid]

Originally Posted by Hep

Unfortunately you aren't grasping the issue. Turn your DRC off and match the volume levels and the experts who can measure errors are saying that the waveforms are identical. No subjectivity. If your equipment is causing you trouble that is a separate issue.

I think you misinterpreted my post, since I agree with you.

I was just hoping to spur some discussion of TrueHD's seeming ability to allow for variable sample bit-depth which is something I don't fully understand but seems like an interesting optimization that is unique to the codec. Is it a pre-processing step to dither samples and zero out bits that do not appear to be significant or an option in the TrueHD encoder itself? In either case, it seems like this would introduce small errors into the encoded waveform preventing the operation from being 100% reversible, but nothing that's actually perceptible.

[brettallica]

dts-hd Master Audio has the cooler logo:

[estafeta73]

I've found DTS to be far superior. I'm bitstreaming until i get a new AVR, but am still getting the DTS Digital Surround core at 1.5m which far outeperforms Dolby Digital at 448k.

[Scorxpion]

Believe it or NOT DTSHD master audio has a superior psychology inside me in purchasing movies on BD. Do you think DTS on DVD before has this psychological thing maybe.Whatever the reason is DTSHD master audio on Blu-ray wins usually in comparaison with other studios using the Opposite.

[Scorxpion]

Next week i will posting part two once it is published on dvdfile.com

http://www.dvdfile.com/views/article...part-one-77117

"Now, whether or not this degradation is enough to cause you to want to increase your compression bit-rate to improve audio quality even if it means not being able to store as many songs on your portable player (I only use Apple-Lossless on my iPod because I can’t stand the drop in fidelity even at the higher lossy rates), few music lovers wouldn’t choose to enjoy the full-fidelity sound quality of the original CD recording if it was a simple matter of having or not having the better sound. So switching gears back to our movie-soundtrack, rather than worrying about which bit-rate might cut a tolerable compromise between space and quality, or about how many listeners may or may not be bothered by the lossy-compression, wouldn’t it be great if we could just enjoy the original full-quality audio in our home-theater instead?
That’s exactly what Blu-ray Disc can deliver. Later this week in Part Two we’ll discuss the low-down on how Blu-ray Discs, Blu-ray Players, and surround-sound receivers handle lossless audio to help you make sure that you’re getting the best bang for your buck in your own Home-Theater, regardless of how much money you have to spend."


Till next week we will see the end story or Conclusion of Lossless Sound.


Thanks for the operator who creates this thread because it is very good and everyone can give his opinion and i wish if Paidgeek was here again to comment.

[Penton-Man]

Well, if you’re referring to me……..my status is quite a bit higher than “operator”….both in terms of professional position and yearly income (I’m certain the IRS loves me when I do no tax exchanges).

And in regards to your friend “paidgeek” (who is currently in the Far East), he and others will be reviewing the survey results and specific replies in this thread with interest in committee.

Might I add for clarification, that we are not looking for any “right” or “wrong” answers here per se, or who is “correct” or “incorrect”, the study is to gauge more importantly, what consumers think about the situation and if their personal thoughts and opinions are strong enough to compel them to vote and how the votes tally.

Thanks

[saprano]

Penton why doesn't sony just use both? if they dont have enough space then they can release some movies in DTS-MA and some in TrueHD. if none of that is possible then i choose DTS-MA.

I love how a big studio like sony is even asking for our opinions