The Hobbit Trilogy Discussion Thread

[Member-115369]

Originally Posted by frogmort

Also, during the time of The Hobbit, things had yet to get so serious and dark as they did when Sauron began to rise to power again. It was a happier, more simple time.

True. But the Smaug scenes could be pretty dark. The Battle of Five armies can be epic like Helm's Deep or Pellenor fields.

The stuff they add about expelling Sauron from Mirkwood can be dark and in the style of the LOTR movies etc.

It doesn't have to be as dark as LOTR, just done with a similar level of seriousness and maturity etc. to fit well with the movies. Just because it's a kids book doesn't mean we have to get a PG family film is what I'm saying mainly.

[frogmort]

Originally Posted by Grand Bob

I would be surprised if Jackson includes Frodo in this movie. He played no part in the story, and there is more than enough material in the book and associated events related to that timeframe in Middle-earth to occupy two movies.

I totally agree with you, but it has been confirmed that Elijah Wood will be reprising his role as Frodo. Since he wasn't even born yet, the only way I could see it happening is maybe the movie starting with Bilbo(Ian Holm) either reading or just reminiscing to Frodo(Elijah Wood) about his adventure, and then fading to said adventure with Martin Freeman as the younger Bilbo.

This is according to theonering.net http://www.theonering.net/torwp/the-hobbit/cast/

and http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2011...in-the-hobbit/

"The fictional book(The Red Book of Westmarch), and either the telling from it or the reading of it, will establish Frodo in the films experiencing Bilbo’s story. Viewers are to learn the tale of ‘The Hobbit’ as a familiar Frodo gets the tale as well."

Not sure how this will impact the movie. It would be okay if they just started and maybe ended with it, but I hope it doesn't keep cutting away from the story over and over again.

[frogmort]

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

True. But the Smaug scenes could be pretty dark. The Battle of Five armies can be epic like Helm's Deep or Pellenor fields.

The stuff they add about expelling Sauron from Mirkwood can be dark and in the style of the LOTR movies etc.

It doesn't have to be as dark as LOTR, just done with a similar level of seriousness and maturity etc. to fit well with the movies. Just because it's a kids book doesn't mean we have to get a PG family film is what I'm saying mainly.

Abso-freakin-lutely!
Just thinking about what they could do with those scenes just made the hair on the back of my neck stand up!

I wish they had made the LOTR and the Hobbit rated-R for epic battles and graphic violence!
sorry to double post.

[Ernest Rister]

As I mentioned, my wife is reading Fellowship for the first time. I skipped ahead to the appendices, because I am no expert but wanted to become more familiar with the backstory.

Tolkien writes *explicitly* that Sauron was no longer *ever* able to take his "fair" form again after he was destroyed in the Numenorian devastation. In the ROTK deleted scenes, someone came up with the bright idea of Sauron appearing once again in his fair friendly deceptive form. You know, every single time they stepped away from Tolkien - not in terms of editing, but pretending to be co-writers alongside him - they stepped wrong. Seriously, I'd show deference to the man instead of laughably bragging about how you improved his work.

[Walts Ghost]

Originally Posted by Grand Bob

I would be surprised if Jackson includes Frodo in this movie. He played no part in the story, and there is more than enough material in the book and associated events related to that timeframe in Middle-earth to occupy two movies.

Frodo has already been confirmed to appear in The Hobbit, and I believe it'll be the beginning of the first movie and the ending of the second movie. He's bookending the films.

[frogmort]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

As I mentioned, my wife is reading Fellowship for the first time. I skipped ahead to the appendices, because I am no expert but wanted to become more familiar with the backstory.

Tolkien writes *explicitly* that Sauron was no longer *ever* able to take his "fair" form again after he was destroyed in the Numenorian devastation. In the ROTK deleted scenes, someone came up with the bright idea of Sauron appearing once again in his fair friendly deceptive form. You know, every single time they stepped away from Tolkien - not in terms of editing, but pretending to be co-writers alongside him - they stepped wrong. Seriously, I'd show deference to the man instead of laughably bragging about how you improved his work.

By the way, Saurons "fair" name was Annatar.

[Grand Bob]

Originally Posted by frogmort

By the way, Saurons "fair" name was Annatar.

That was the name (meaning "Giver of Gifts") he applied to himself when he deceived the Elves in the Second Age when the Rings of Power were made. By the time of The Hobbit, that name was no longer applicable, since his body was destroyed in the destruction of Numenor and he was never able to take a "fair" form again (for those interested, these events are summed up in "On the Rings of Power and The Third Age", the final chapter of The Silmarillion). As Ernest Rister pointed out, Jackson must be careful in his application of "artistic license" to prevent the bastardization of the historical background of the saga, as Tolkien's painstaking infusion of history and culture are elements that make Middle-earth "real", and distinguish it from all other works.

[Mahatma]

Originally Posted by Walts Ghost

Frodo has already been confirmed to appear in The Hobbit, and I believe it'll be the beginning of the first movie and the ending of the second movie. He's bookending the films.

Beginning of the movie?!Isn't the hobbit set 60 years or so before the beginning of LotR?How old is Frodo then

The more I hear about this project,the more indifferent I become about it

[Witch King of Angmar]

Originally Posted by Mahatma

Beginning of the movie?!Isn't the hobbit set 60 years or so before the beginning of LotR?How old is Frodo then

The more I hear about this project,the more indifferent I become about it

Frodo was born on 2968. (27 years after the events of the hobbit).


And do read this


^Major Spoilers in the link

[Grand Bob]

Originally Posted by Witch King of Angmar

Frodo was born on 2968. (27 years after the events of the hobbit).


And do read this


^Major Spoilers in the link

IMO it would be a mistake to start the movie in any fashion other than the way it begins in the book - it is the best way to begin. We know that "The Hobbit" is contained in "The Red Book of Westmarch", but enough already of characters reading about the story we are seeing in the movie from a book! Also, if this "cutting-edge 3-D" involves wearing glasses, I consider it a detriment. My wife and I avoid going to see movies in theaters now for that reason.

[Member-115369]

Originally Posted by Mahatma

Beginning of the movie?!Isn't the hobbit set 60 years or so before the beginning of LotR?How old is Frodo then

The more I hear about this project,the more indifferent I become about it

The idea is that it will start with Bilbo telling the story to Frodo, and end the same way. Not that Frodo will be actively in the movie.


Grand Bob,

And the 3D will of course involve wearing glasses. Not like they're going to invent no glasses needed 3D theater tech between now and 2012. But they'll have 2D showings as well.

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

The idea is that it will start with Bilbo telling the story to Frodo, and end the same way. Not that Frodo will be actively in the movie.

Do have to wonder who Frodo will be, even if he doesn't actively participate in any of the movies' events.

[Grand Bob]

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

And the 3D will of course involve wearing glasses. Not like they're going to invent no glasses needed 3D theater tech between now and 2012. But they'll have 2D showings as well.

That's where you'll find me. 3D was OK as a novelty, but it's annoyance increases proportional to the length of the movie, and these will most likely be long movies. I will just have to get over missing the excitment when Bilbo

[Show spoiler] thrusts Sting out of the screen at the audience as he is stabbing the spiders.

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by Grand Bob

That's where you'll find me. 3D was OK as a novelty, but it's annoyance increases proportional to the length of the movie, and these will most likely be long movies. I will just have to get over missing the excitment when Bilbo

[Show spoiler] thrusts Sting out of the screen at the audience as he is stabbing the spiders.

I'll be there first day too to see this, assuming the movie will be over in time for me to go to work.

[KubrickFan]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

As I mentioned, my wife is reading Fellowship for the first time. I skipped ahead to the appendices, because I am no expert but wanted to become more familiar with the backstory.

Tolkien writes *explicitly* that Sauron was no longer *ever* able to take his "fair" form again after he was destroyed in the Numenorian devastation. In the ROTK deleted scenes, someone came up with the bright idea of Sauron appearing once again in his fair friendly deceptive form. You know, every single time they stepped away from Tolkien - not in terms of editing, but pretending to be co-writers alongside him - they stepped wrong. Seriously, I'd show deference to the man instead of laughably bragging about how you improved his work.

They were not bragging. They were just talking about how they're adapting Tolkien's work as their movie. They're allowed to take licenses.

[Ernest Rister]

You obviously haven't listened to the Phillipa Boyens commentary track on Fellowship. She does indeed boast about improving Tolkien's work, and takes some shots at him as a writer. Its for this reason that there is so much resentment towards her in the Tolkien fan community.

From the Fellowship of the Ring commentary track...

PETER JACKSON: This moment between Boromir and Aragorn is iconic from the book. You know, when you can read the book and imagine Boromir leaning against the base of the tree with the arrows in him and Aragorn leaning over him and --

PHILIPPA BOYENS: I think this moment is better than the moment in the book! There, I said it! I do. I think we did --

PETER JACKSON (overlapping): Well, we definitely enhanced the dialogue. We made it --

PHILIIPA BOYENS: Not just the dialog, I actually think the emotional content of this moment and the connection between the two characters. And I do think it was a failing of Professor Tolkien’s. I wanted more when I read that moment in the book.

PETER JACKSON: Yeah.

----

It should be noted that Jackson doesn't seem very comfortable when Boyens bursts in and interrupts him. He seems a bit ill at ease while she pats herself on the back and criticizes Tolkien. This (and other instances of seeming bragging and arrogance on the supplements) are why she's not a very popular figure in Tolkien fan circles. She's offended them.

What's funny is that if you read the scene in Tolkien's book and compare it to their adaptation, it's fairly close to Tolkien. They did nothing with this moment a 1st year film student couldn't have done on his first adaptation assignment.

This is *precisely* the danger of co-creativity, where you begin to confuse your ability to stand on the shoulder of a giant, and confuse your streamlined re-write with the greatness of the author you're adapting.

Nobody tosses a dwarf, indeed.

[radagast]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

You obviously haven't listened to the Phillipa Boyens commentary track on Fellowship. She does indeed boast about improving Tolkien's work, and takes some shots at him as a writer. Its for this reason that there is so much resentment towards her in the Tolkien fan community.

From the Fellowship of the Ring commentary track...

PETER JACKSON: This moment between Boromir and Aragorn is iconic from the book. You know, when you can read the book and imagine Boromir leaning against the base of the tree with the arrows in him and Aragorn leaning over him and --

PHILIPPA BOYENS: I think this moment is better than the moment in the book! There, I said it! I do. I think we did --

PETER JACKSON (overlapping): Well, we definitely enhanced the dialogue. We made it --

PHILIIPA BOYENS: Not just the dialog, I actually think the emotional content of this moment and the connection between the two characters. And I do think it was a failing of Professor Tolkien’s. I wanted more when I read that moment in the book.

PETER JACKSON: Yeah.

----

It should be noted that Jackson doesn't seem very comfortable when Boyens bursts in and interrupts him. He seems a bit ill at ease while she pats herself on the back and criticizes Tolkien. This (and other instances of seeming bragging and arrogance on the supplements) are why she's not a very popular figure in Tolkien fan circles. She's offended them.

What's funny is that if you read the scene in Tolkien's book and compare it to their adaptation, it's fairly close to Tolkien. They did nothing with this moment a 1st year film student couldn't have done on his first adaptation assignment.

This is *precisely* the danger of co-creativity, where you begin to confuse your ability to stand on the shoulder of a giant, and confuse your streamlined re-write with the greatness of the author you're adapting.

Nobody tosses a dwarf, indeed.

Is this the first time you realized the arrogance that runs rampant in the movie industry?

[Ernest Rister]

No, but it is the first instance we saw of one of the creative team members of LOTR showcasing a lack of respect for Tolkien.

Besides, most of the people I've worked with in the industry are really no different than your average person in terms of decency, taste, and respect. When I stage managed Ian McKellan's show in 1997, he went out of his way to dedicate the close of his show to me - on stage, no less. Amazing man. Philippa Boyens? Maybe also an amazing person - never worked with her, never will, so I don't know - but she really should have kept those comments to herself, or saved them for some other context.

In order to convince someone to pay you millions of dollars, you have to sell the idea that you are unique and so is your talent and your ability to make money. Clearly, some people come to believe the own lie that they're selling to earn their oft-times insane salaries. No, hubris is nothing new. But when it applies to adapting Tolkien, clearly fans of the text and Tolkien's decades-long labor have reason to be offended, and nervous about Boyens' continued involvement in the screenwriting process.

I don't know who is responsible for that god-awful "Hearts of Darkness" speech in King Kong, but I suspect everyone involved thought they were improving the story.

Get it now?

[Gremal]

Well said, Ernest! Totally agree.

[Duffy12]

Barrels out of bond!!!!!!!





from theonering.net-

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Exclusive: Barrel-Riding Test Photos at Aratiatia Rapids

February 26th, 2011 by Calisuri

A few weeks back, we posted a story from the NZ Post about how the Aratiatia Rapids, a popular tourist destination, would be shut down for four days during peak tourist season for The Hobbit filming. Adding further credit to that report are these images from Ringer Spy Hobbitwatch. In the photos, you can see a crew performing some kind of tests with pink barrels at the Falls. Here is the full report from Ringer Spy Hobbitwatch:

Just sending you a few pics of the activity going on at the Aratiatia Rapids where they have started filming for the barrell scenes in The Hobbit, they had heaps of safety people there as pretty dangerous stuff, mostly all wound up when I took the pics, but shows the barrels they were using for when the Bilbo Baggins and the dwarves, rode the rapids in barrels to get away from the orcs I think it was. the barrels are pink so as to allow for them being digitalized apparently. the hyab truck was in place to maybe film up the rapids, anyway, they used both ends of the rapids to do the job, as you will see. there are big barrels on the truck, plus a small one, I guess for scaling for Hobbit size?? A couple of pics also of the crew, both safty and filming by the looks of it having smoko.

Dont’ forget to see all the photos after the break!

[Show spoiler]

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http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2011...tiatia-rapids/