jaydoc's Basement build thread

[jaydoc24]

Originally Posted by kareface

I was just wondering because I could offer some suggestions if you planned to.

Please do. I'm all ears...or eyes rather!

What were you thinking?

[kareface]

Originally Posted by jaydoc24

Please do. I'm all ears...or eyes rather!

What were you thinking?

The cheapest thing you can do that will help is pick up some acoustical caulking and make sure every inch of the room is as sealed as you can get it. This alone will have the greatest impact on reducing transmission for the cost. Greater degrees of texturing can help with ringing high notes. You're already past the framing stage and judging by the gap in a couple of the panels you likely used 16 OC. This is a good solution if you prefer stronger bass, but it also means you'll have a little more transmission. 24 OC with a high rigidity 1/2in or 5/8ths drywall will provide lower transmission with out much impact on the LF in the room. I can make tons of suggestions, but it might be a bit late for some, and others would cost you more money so I'm not sure how many would benefit you. If you wanted to spend a several hundred more I have some ideas.

[jaydoc24]

Originally Posted by kareface

The cheapest thing you can do that will help is pick up some acoustical caulking and make sure every inch of the room is as sealed as you can get it. This alone will have the greatest impact on reducing transmission for the cost. Greater degrees of texturing can help with ringing high notes. You're already past the framing stage and judging by the gap in a couple of the panels you likely used 16 OC. This is a good solution if you prefer stronger bass, but it also means you'll have a little more transmission. 24 OC with a high rigidity 1/2in or 5/8ths drywall will provide lower transmission with out much impact on the LF in the room. I can make tons of suggestions, but it might be a bit late for some, and others would cost you more money so I'm not sure how many would benefit you. If you wanted to spend a several hundred more I have some ideas.

Well if you don't mind reciting them, I'd certainly take a look. Not exactly sure what I would consider doing and would probably take your suggestions on a case-by-case basis, but would love to hear them.

[Scooby Blu]

Can't wait to see the masterpiece complete!

[jaydoc24]

Originally Posted by Scooby Blu

Can't wait to see the masterpiece complete!

Thanks for checking....me either! I actually started to do some insulation last night so I felt like for the first time that I was getting somewhere.

On a side note...I absolutely love those B&W's and you Pioneer plasma.

[kareface]

Originally Posted by jaydoc24

Well if you don't mind reciting them, I'd certainly take a look. Not exactly sure what I would consider doing and would probably take your suggestions on a case-by-case basis, but would love to hear them.

It depends, are you more interested in acoustics or sound proofing? Do you prefer more aggressive amounts of bass?

Green glue and a second layer of drywall is a great option to reduce excess LF energy and it reduces transmission a great deal. I think any good home theater should consider it simply because it's no fun to have a theater setup if people in the house are asking you to keep it down. If you don't plan on placing anything behind the main listening position and there's a gap between you an the back wall you should also consider heavy texturing on that wall. They make outdoor textures that look like you have rocks glued to your wall. Another option would be to place a book shelf there.

If you go with a hardwood or tile floor you have to treat the ceiling. I actually prefer this method tho, it produces more natural sounding rooms because we are accustom to some degree of reflections off of the floor. Being in a room, even one designed for sound with a carpet can sound a little less natural because you're hearing reflections off of the ceiling rather then the floor. It takes a lot of material to properly dampen the ceiling tho, but done right it can be more effective then carpeting for reducing the vertical standing waves. I can't stress this enough, don't hide your speakers. If you hide your speakers you're more likely to place them in a position that hurts the over all acoustics. Speaker prefer to be further away from the walls, and if you enclose them into some type of structure to keep them hidden you are only hurting the sound. Don't over dampen the room. Too many DIY theaters have the walls lined with felt. You do want to treat the room, but you don't want to remove all the reflections. It'll sound unnatural and overly dead. Part of tonality is the sum of the reflections, this is one of the main reasons why speakers will sound different depending on where they are placed in the room. If you have an excess of LF energy there are better options then jamming 20 panels in your room. If you need help treating the room just make a thread or PM me. There's many other things but it'll be easier to cover some of them once you get the bulk of the work done. It's too late for most of the sound proofing options, so I'd focus mostly on acoustics for now.

[jaydoc24]

Well I saw your green glue treatment and that is potentially possible save the fact that I have can lights already installed and nailed to the floor joists. The first layer of sheetrock is then cut flush for the can lights and an additional 1/2" or 5/8" for another piece might screw that up.

I am planning on carpet and not tile or wood floors. I was not planning on hiding or housing my speakers in any way though. Speakers 4 and 5 will be on speaker stands and speakers 6 and 7 will be mounted from the ceiling.

Behind the main listening position on the couch will eventually be a bar-sized table with seating for 3 or 4. Do you think that would work as the bookshelf example you mentioned?

[kareface]

Originally Posted by jaydoc24

Well I saw your green glue treatment and that is potentially possible save the fact that I have can lights already installed and nailed to the floor joists. The first layer of sheetrock is then cut flush for the can lights and an additional 1/2" or 5/8" for another piece might screw that up.

I used remodel lighting (space limitation) and because they clip in they had to be installed in the first layer. Make absolutely sure they all work before putting up second layer, I tested mine out before putting up the second layer and sure enough one of the leads from the first in the series came loose during the installation and none of the lights worked. It was caught before the second layer went up bit it would of been a big pain in the ass otherwise. You can see the results of my lighting, the only real difference is the bulb is a little recessed compared to normal but unless you're looking for it you'd never notice. I went with 2 layers of 5/8th as well, so it's a fair thickness.

I will warn you tho, green glue while being the best option for the price is still pretty costly. I did use more then average (they recommend using 2 tubes per 4x8 sheet, 3 for best results and 1 at minimum) so I opted for 3 tubs per sheet, and even in a room as small as mine it ended up costing around $800 if I remember correctly. Doing 2 per 4x8 sheet is a lot cheaper and that cost includes a lot more caulking then you'd need, because I caulked all the gaps on the first layer of drywall and you wouldn't need to go that route now. You should tho at very least caulk any gaps you have currently, and if you do decide to add another layer caulk the gaps on that layer as well. If you are mudding you obviously don't need to caulk any areas you'll be mudding.

Originally Posted by jaydoc24

Behind the main listening position on the couch will eventually be a bar-sized table with seating for 3 or 4. Do you think that would work as the bookshelf example you mentioned?

It's not likely, but I can't say for sure. You want a lot of differing distances for diffraction (imagine a city skyline). I wouldn't worry about it tho, there are other things that can be done. It'll be easier to comment once it's closer to being finished and I can see what the situation is.

[jaydoc24]

This may be a dumb question but where would a gap exist that I would not mud if I only use one layer of drywall?

[kareface]

Originally Posted by jaydoc24

This may be a dumb question but where would a gap exist that I would not mud if I only use one layer of drywall?

Between the floors and the drywall, gaps between walls & door jams, space between the electrical outlets and the drywall or pretty much anywhere air can escape. Sealing is one of the best ways to reduce transmission. Also the better sealed a room is the easier it is for a lot of box subs to work at lower ranges.

[jaydoc24]

Originally Posted by kareface

Between the floors and the drywall, gaps between walls & door jams, space between the electrical outlets and the drywall or pretty much anywhere air can escape. Sealing is one of the best ways to reduce transmission. Also the better sealed a room is the easier it is for a lot of box subs to work at lower ranges.

Do you know of any other products that accomplish the sealing task?

[kareface]

Originally Posted by jaydoc24

Do you know of any other products that accomplish the sealing task?

Just to make sure you know, you wouldn't use green glue for the sealant, you'd use silenseal. Yes, there are other products that are similar. I used one from OSI before I picked up the silenseal. I can say tho, the silenseal worked much better, it was much softer and it remained soft after application. The other stuff I used shrank a lot when it dried, only to open little gaps. I ended up going back over the first layer with the silenseal. If the room isn't too larger and the gap between the floor and the drywall isn't too wide you could get away with a 4 sub pack and it really is worth every penny. If you plan to do a second layer of drywall you'll likely need more, and I'd suggest ordering extra just in case. You can sell anything left over on ebay. A case is 72$+ shipping, and you might be able to get it cheaper then that.

[jaydoc24]

Yeah, I understood that. I was just wondering about the SilenSeal product.

[NorCo_1806]

Originally Posted by jaydoc24

I had not really thought about running cable for the subs in the wall at all, but I suppose I can consider that.

...are you using a different type of cable for your sub?...

You can use coax cable for your sub-signal. I've used it many times, even with pre-ran coax in an apartment, to get my sub to the rear of the room.

RCA-ends are VERY easy to solder onto coax, or you could get a coax-to-rca converter/wall plate.

[kareface]

Originally Posted by NorCo_1806

You can use coax cable for your sub-signal. I've used it many times, even with pre-ran coax in an apartment, to get my sub to the rear of the room.

RCA-ends are VERY easy to solder onto coax, or you could get a coax-to-rca converter/wall plate.

They make solderless heads that have little teeth to grab the insulation too. I actually have a box of them sitting next to me, lol.

[jaydoc24]

Yeah, I know NOTHING about how to solder things together, I'd probably have to see an example...especially of the solderless ones. I may tackle those.

[NorCo_1806]

Originally Posted by kareface

They make solderless heads that have little teeth to grab the insulation too. I actually have a box of them sitting next to me, lol.

I see your box of solderless connectors. And raise you a bushel of solder-on Monster Cable rca ends!!

I should maybe sell some of these. I have too many!!

Originally Posted by jaydoc24

Yeah, I know NOTHING about how to solder things together, I'd probably have to see an example...especially of the solderless ones. I may tackle those.

That's the beauty of soldering rca ends onto coax....the coax pretty much lines up and sits still while you solder. Very nice wire!!

[NorCo_1806]

Here's a shot of the RCA end soldered onto coax. These are the Monster Cable ends I have a plethera of too.


please excuse the dirt...this one spent a bunch of time in my crawl-space.

[jaydoc24]

So you pretty much just strip the jack off the coax and then solder the copper wire to the plug itself and then slide the jacket back over the assembly? And you use this for your sub runs?

[NorCo_1806]

Originally Posted by jaydoc24

So you pretty much just strip the jack off the coax and then solder the copper wire to the plug itself and then slide the jacket back over the assembly? And you use this for your sub runs?

Yup, see....??...told ya it was easy!!

You strip the coax like usual, with the silver braiding wrapped around the white insulation. The silver braiding is the negative conductor with the copper center pin being the positive.

The copper center pin sticks out the end of the white insulation. You may need the copper center pin a bit longer for this than you would for terminating with coax ends....but you'll know once you have the parts.

Easier than soldering RCA cable to RCA ends, that's for sure....and yes, cable made especially for RCA signal may be better. But Coax has a very wide bandwidth.