4K Blu-ray Confirmed, Coming in

[reanimator]

Originally Posted by Trigen

To all the UHD elitists, how many HD BR's out of your collection will you replace with UHD BR's if it becomes available?

Every single UHD-BD I can afford. For the following reason...

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

Ultra HD Blu-ray ... will likely be the last best physical format we ever get.

[RedIsNotBlue]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

The consumer electronics industry has really soured on 3D until some technology comes along that really pushes boundaries. Their emphasis is now on other features (like better, pro-grade colors and dynamic range) that can be eye catching to a majority of consumers without the need for glasses.

I hope Ultra HD Blu-ray does well and looks and sounds as good as the list of features on paper says it could be... as it will likely be the last best physical format we ever get and much better than streaming or downloads for quite some time.

To some lay people the difference between DVD and Blu-ray may not be immediately noticeable (they're blind, but hey), but between DVD and Ultra HD Blu-ray, that may be a different story... if marketed correctly.

It is going to take a lot of factors for 4K to make it in the long run. It is going to be niche for quite some time like 3D Blu-ray is.

The comparison you are making between DVD and Ultra HD Blu-ray is an odd, irrelevant one because people that cared that much about quality and resolution mainly have already jumped on the Blu-ray ship. People who still buy DVD's these days only do so because they are significantly cheaper in price. Picture quality is secondary to them. So the pricing of Ultra HD Blu-ray is one of those factors that is going to determine how well it is received because if stays more expensive like 3D Blu-ray has done for the most part it will remain in the niche market.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by Nightopian

No it hasnt. Your personal opinion doesnt speak for the entire world im afraid...

It's not my opinion... they see 3D, for the consumer market especially, as being a disappointment and even commercial 3D ticket sales are starting to slip. They are far more interested in other visual aspects (10 bit and HDR are really big, the color gamut is big, object audio is big, HFR is sorta big), at least for the time being.

They're not even including a 4k 3D option for Ultra HD discs until later and only if the studios and other BDA members call for it and a lot of A/V manufacturers are on the hunt for something, anything to promote besides 3D.

[RedIsNotBlue]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

It's not my opinion... they see 3D, for the consumer market especially, as being a disappointment and even commercial 3D ticket sales are starting to slip. They are far more interested in other visual aspects (10 bit and HDR are really big, the color gamut is big, object audio is big, HFR is sorta big), at least for the time being.

They're not even including a 4k 3D option for Ultra HD discs until later and only if the studios and other BDA members call for it and a lot of A/V manufacturers are on the hunt for something, anything to promote besides 3D.

What really hurt 3D is when studios cheap out with a shoddy post conversion which was pretty common at the start of the recent 3D push and it left a bad taste in a lot of peoples mouths. The post conversions have gotten a lot better for the most part in the past few years and as long as companies keep producing 3D tv's and releasing 3D films in theaters (which there are still plenty coming out in 2015) then I am sure will keep getting content churned out even if slowly.

Things like Disney's recent dropping 3D Blu-ray releases for their animation films in North America is worrisome (although odd) for the future though I will be honest.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by RedIsNotBlue

What really hurt 3D is when studios cheap out with a shoddy post conversion which was pretty common at the start of the recent 3D push and it left a bad taste in a lot of peoples mouths. The post conversions have gotten a lot better for the most part in the past few years and as long as companies keep producing 3D tv's and releasing 3D films in theaters (which there are still plenty coming out in 2015) then I am sure will keep getting content churned out even if slowly.

Things like Disney's recent dropping 3D Blu-ray releases for their animation films in North America is worrisome (although odd) for the future though I will be honest.

Disney's decision about 3D mirrors the consensus in the community and they won't spend the extra money to print Blu-ray 3D discs if they think it's not going to increase sales. Frozen did gangbuster sales on Blu-ray without a 3D option in much of the world (probably one of the highest selling Blu's ever).

Irrespective of whether or not anyone likes 3D for medical, technical, and/or artistic reasons, what hurt them the most was simple greed. There was no reason to price these discs at a premium. Price them the same as 2D and give people a choice of versions. Then see where the chips fall.

[RedIsNotBlue]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

Disney's decision about 3D mirrors the consensus in the community and they won't spend the extra money to print Blu-ray 3D discs if they think it's not going to increase sales. Frozen did gangbuster sales on Blu-ray without a 3D option in much of the world (probably one of the highest selling Blu's ever).

Irrespective of whether or not anyone likes 3D, what hurt them the most was simple greed. There was no reason to price these discs at a premium. Price them the same as 2D and give people a choice of versions. Then see where the chips fall.

Yes but the odd things I don't understand if Disney is not so much into releasing 3D...

1. Disney 3D Blu-ray's STILL get released... just overseas and they are region free.

2. Why are they still bothering going forward with the 3D post conversions if they aren't even fully supporting the 3D consumer at home?

But yes you are right. It comes down to the price is a major factor in the low sales of certain 3D discs but you would figure Disney would adjust the pricing to the market or make it so people would be getting more for their money in some way but yes like you said it may be a little too much greed on their part.

[Richard Paul]

Originally Posted by dvdmike

This will be the new laserdisc, and be all the better for it.

I hope that Ultra HD Blu-ray does better than that and while technical specs are important any new video format needs to be convenient. Allowing for the movie to be quickly reached and making resume play a mandatory feature would be simple ways to improve the odds.

[Nightopian]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

It's not my opinion... they see 3D, for the consumer market especially, as being a disappointment and even commercial 3D ticket sales are starting to slip. They are far more interested in other visual aspects (10 bit and HDR are really big, the color gamut is big, object audio is big, HFR is sorta big), at least for the time being.

They're not even including a 4k 3D option for Ultra HD discs until later and only if the studios and other BDA members call for it and a lot of A/V manufacturers are on the hunt for something, anything to promote besides 3D.

Again, thats just your opinion.

And if people were interested in higher resolution and visual, then Dvds wouldnt be around anymore. Still the mainstream all buy Dvd because to them its good enough. If they arent interested in Bluray on its own, they wont care about 4K. Even a lot of people here who back bluray wont make the jump to 4k. The law of diminishing returns kicks in. Are you going to see any benefit watching 4k on a 60 inch tv at 10 feet away? No.Precisely the reason why people stuck with Dvd...they didnt see the benefit of Bluray a big enough reason to make the switch...


But 3D is 3D no matter what you watch it on...and this years list of films being released in 3D is showing no indication of it slowing down. Films like Avatar 2 and 3 will just push it even further...

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

....I hope Ultra HD Blu-ray does well and looks and sounds as good as the list of features on paper says it could be... as it will likely be the last best physical format we ever get and much better than streaming or downloads for quite some time.

ULTRA HD Blu-ray (note to Geoff, lol, I am ALREADY getting tired of typing out that whole formal format name in its entirety) spec is purrrty good.

Basically, the BDA is allowing/challenging content providers (studios) and consumer TV electronics companies both inside and outside the UHD Alliance to step up to the plate and strut their stuff (to consumers)….at least over the course of time.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Basically, the BDA is allowing/challenging content providers (studios) and consumer TV electronics companies both inside and outside the UHD Alliance to step up to the plate and strut their stuff (to consumers)….at least over the course of time.

We consumers have been stuck with ancient video specs for quite awhile, so it is about bloody time!

[KRW1]

Originally Posted by Nightopian

But 3D is 3D no matter what you watch it on...and this years list of films being released in 3D is showing no indication of it slowing down. Films like Avatar 2 and 3 will just push it even further...

But they tend to remain resolutely 2D at home.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

ULTRA HD Blu-ray (note to Geoff, lol, I am ALREADY getting tired of typing out that whole formal format name in its entirety) spec is purrrty good.

Well I will not have to change my avatar that I've had for sometime now .

[Zeekomkommer]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

48 fps will probably be supported, but if WB decides to release it that way...it will have to be 2D for the time being. There is no HFR 3D 4k spec in place... nor is there one for regular 4k 3D for that matter.

I do think 48 fps material will also have a downconverted 24 fps version available as well. Not everyone likes the look.

lol, no 3D is fine for me! I guess they will also release a 24FPS version for the UHD BD.

I am really looking forward to watching The Hobbit in HFR at home one day. I mean, no the films aren't perfect or one of the best or any of that matter. But I enjoy them a lot and I thought the HFR made a really nice viewing experience. I'm still a bit anxious about how Cameron is going to make the Avatar sequels (he wanted to combine 24 and 48 or something) but it's nice to know that once those are finally out I could watch them in HFR at home too. So far, not many other films are going HFR... I wonder if PJ will use it for his small scale Kiwi films he keeps talking about. Would be terrific if he directed TinTin2 in HFR!! In fact, I think animation films will benefit a lot from it.

[Brian81]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

ULTRA HD Blu-ray (note to Geoff, lol, I am ALREADY getting tired of typing out that whole formal format name in its entirety) spec is purrrty good.

Basically, the BDA is allowing/challenging content providers (studios) and consumer TV electronics companies both inside and outside the UHD Alliance to step up to the plate and strut their stuff (to consumers)….at least over the course of time.

I will just call it UHD BD

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

Yes but in order to do that the disc that you copy from needs to be registered to a certain account, so that you can't lend out the disc to others to copy on to their secure BDA-approved player. You probably won't be able to sell it either, if it is tied to your account. Otherwise you could just copy the movie and sell it.

But then if the sale was a true disc purchase, then it would be protected by First Sale and you will be allowed to sell it or give to someone else. I don't see how a disc originally purchased with First Sale protection could be converted to one where you would not be allowed to sell it because you are making it linked to a digital delivery device.

It's just that the whole concept of having it "as an option" raises a concern to me that all disc purchases will be digital-based and tied to the owner's account with no resale rights. Hopefully I'm reading into this too much.

I get what you are saying but I don't agree.

think about this, do studios sell today "combo's" that have more than one copy of the film (i.e. 3D BD, BD, DC, DVD for example)? can someone keep one (or more) of those copies and sell, trade or give away one or more of the rest? Same here. I see what you posted more as either them finding a way to put the DC code in the disk data or a type of scanner for a server (saving you from typing in the DC code.

[Brian81]

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

I hope that Ultra HD Blu-ray does better than that and while technical specs are important any new video format needs to be convenient. Allowing for the movie to be quickly reached and making resume play a mandatory feature would be simple ways to improve the odds.

The LD catalog is quite massive despite never reaching high levels of household penetration in North America. Titles released over a course of roughly 20 years is pretty good.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Kirsty_Mc

Yes but this is different from the past (ie. Laserdisc vs CED) as the technology is upwardly compatible. A BD player will play DVD and it's almost certain a 4K BD player will play 1080P BDs and DVDs, so to a large extent they are part of the same ecosystem. I don't see DVD going away any time soon. It's been a long time since I bought one, I wouldn't advise buying one where a BD is available, but I dont begrudge anyone buying one if it fits their budget or expectations.

but it I not a matter of ecosystem. You are missing the obvious. It is nice for a studios, companies and people to have options. Low end for the cheap person higher end for the guy willing to pay more. But "choice" also adds complexity. For example the studio needs to decide how to brake down the copies A,B... they will produce, they need to warehouse all those different copies, the store needs to guess how many copies of each to buy from the studio, the store needs shelf space for the different copies, it makes it harder for the consumer to find what he wants and the price of things (i.e . what is the difference between the one priced at 15$, 20$, 25$ and 30$, which one do I need and which one can I use).

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

I get what you are saying but I don't agree.

think about this, do studios sell today "combo's" that have more than one copy of the film (i.e. 3D BD, BD, DC, DVD for example)? can someone keep one (or more) of those copies and sell, trade or give away one or more of the rest? Same here. I see what you posted more as either them finding a way to put the DC code in the disk data or a type of scanner for a server (saving you from typing in the DC code.

Sure, if it was just a code, then it could only be redeemed once. But what was said is that that you'll actually be able to copy movie content from the disc onto a secure hard drive (BDA-approved obviously).

Anyway it was kind of odd that they are concerned with making the "digital copy" process easier in this age of redeeming UV codes and streaming it (or Disney codes). Was the point to be able to copy the 4K movie itself because it's too large to stream? In that case then yeah it would be very convenient to have your UHD BD collection on a secure hard drive with no loss in quality.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

I think after what happened with AACS managed copy it is reasonable to be skeptical about any optional DRM system that can allow people to copy an entire disc onto their computers.

nothing wrong with being skeptical, but I think people need to use their brain and not just go down the rabbit hole and describe it as being "skeptical"

first of all let's look at what was in the bit

Ultra HD Blu-ray is also going to include some optional spec capabilities, the implementation of which will be up to both hardware and software manufactures. One of these will be Digital Extension or Digital Bridge, which (if and when employed) could allow consumers to securely move and copy movie content from the UHD-BD discs to their own hard drives and to mobile devices. The goal is to make the whole “digital copy” process much easier on Ultra HD Blu-ray than it is today on existing Blu-ray and DVD.

no where does it stipulate an optional DRM, it is saying "Digital Extension or Digital Bridge" will be optional and it's job is not rights management per say but "to make the whole “digital copy” process much easier".

Now maybe it is BS and it is a DRM that will limit what you can do with the disk, but if it is not BS and it is as it says, to me it sounds more like a way to save you from having to type in the website and then the key to access your DC that comes on the DC/UV paper in your pack.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

Sure, if it was just a code, then it could only be redeemed once. But what was said is that that you'll actually be able to copy movie content from the disc onto a secure hard drive (BDA-approved obviously).

not sure what you mean by that, in the early days of DC included in BD the content often came on a DVD and the DC code could be used to DL it from the disk. Lately (because the DC files are small) it meant that the disk is often omitted and it was just a piece of paper and a DL.

Anyway it was kind of odd that they are concerned with making the "digital copy" process easier in this age of redeeming UV codes and streaming it (or Disney codes). Was the point to be able to copy the 4K movie itself because it's too large to stream? In that case then yeah it would be very convenient to have your UHD BD collection on a secure hard drive with no loss in quality.

I don't use my UV copies. But it is a pain. I don't get why you think simplifying it is such a bad idea. Also depending on how it works, it might even help. For example rabbit in the Canadian deals section always makes the codes for the movie available on line for the first person to use it. If "the code" is not as easily posted and must be read by the device off the disk(not saying it would be that way, but since we are talking hypothetically why not merge it into the disk in some way even if it is a printed on) it would make harder for people to share /sell/ give it away as an added benefit.