Fright Night (1985) (30th Anniversary Edition) (Limited Edition) - SOLD OUT

[thephantomcat]

Originally Posted by wormraper

Yes it would. Sony would have to provide it and they haven't. They replaced that older master with the new blue one. The VUDU/Netflix file very well may be the last of that old master. Netflix/VUDU/TV stations etc don't get access to the master. Broadcast files MADE from the master are struck and distributed to all of them and that's what is being used. No one knows if that master even EXISTS any more with the newer bluer transfer replacing it...those old VUDU broadcast files may be the last remnants of that older master. No one knows...the end point however is that Sony hasn't provided anyone that master for several years and certainly didn't offer it to TT (especially since they said that Sony asked them to re release the three they are releasing)

You seem pretty confident that master was cremated and buried on consecrated ground.

[thephantomcat]

Originally Posted by brasil

I presented no one. I asked a simple question. There is nothing random here, the compression can be seen and verified easily. There was no scoffing except from TT, while I simply acknowledged their own words.

Perhaps it is you who display the characteristics who say other do?

The defective decoder that has allegedly been confirmed by an insider.

[wormraper]

Originally Posted by thephantomcat

You seem pretty confident that master was cremated and buried on consecrated ground.

Noooooooo. My point is that no one has been given files from that master for quite some time and Sony didn't offer it to TT. So as such TT isn't going to release the same warmed over transfer that got them futt bucked to begin with. There's no evidence that the "trolls" influenced Sony in any way shape or form


And while it may exist somewhere its not PROBABLE since most masters that are replaces are destroyed since there's no need to keep every old master file when a newer shinier one exists. Common practice in the film industry

[BrandonJF]

Originally Posted by Ruined

Personally I don't see the macroblocking as a major issue. It happens, it is IMO not that noticeable and overall the new image with more detail is preferable to the old with less. We are talking a handful of frames here (which is why it appears to judder), not something that runs throughout the movie. Stuff like that happens occasionally, even with Criterion discs for that matter.

I am curious about the brightness/color differences, though, and I find that more interesting since you can guess at the answer but probably can't prove it 100%.
Was it an intentional tweak?
Was it a colorspace conversion error by the encoder or compressionist as another poster postulated?

Given the answers you got, though, I guess we probably will never hear a reasonable answer from Twilight Time.

I'm not sure it's safe to say that it doesn't happen "throughout the movie". Have you watched the entire movie or are you just going by only a handful of examples being given out (so far)? Plus, the examples given do take place across a pretty large portion of the movie. I have a hard time believing that those are the only places they exist. I mean, I saw another case of macroblocking not mentioned just by letting the movie play for another 30 seconds after the clock-pan example. It had been stated that it happens more often and I don't doubt it.

I've never seen "stuff like this" happen repeatedly throughout a movie. Which Criterion release has these issues? When it happened in one frame in a WB release, it was corrected and replacements were sent out to anyone who asked. I can't imagine that there are Criterion releases with these issues and they didn't correct them. I would be willing to bet that if we find our TT discs rotting in 5 years, they won't be sending out replacements.

IMO, this "increased detail" is more imperceptible than these macroblocking issues. You can flip back and forth on some screenshots and eventually you may notice that some shirt fabric might look a microscopic bit sharper. If you want to talk about something that nobody will notice (especially on smaller displays).... I tried comparing a scene on my 128" 2.35:1 screen and, going off of memory since I obviously don't have the two images up at the same time, I could not pick out any additional detail or increased grain in the scene I was looking at. I'm not saying it's not there - it's just that there's not enough there for me to say "yep, I can now see that design in the wallpaper that was a blob before." I could increase the brightness of the old release and give the appearance that there was "more grain", though!

I'm not convinced this new brightness level is correct, either. I'd bet that it's not. Unless someone involved with the film can explain that choice, I'll be going with the look of the Sony release (and TT's previous release).

[thephantomcat]

Originally Posted by brasil

What of it?

Who says that's true?

[wormraper]

Originally Posted by thephantomcat

Considering anyone on an anonymous forum a verified insider is, well.... Does the term Nigerian prince ring any bells? You are presenting something someone on some random forum said as a fact and then scoffing when tells you bot to believe everything you read on the Internet. Someone needs to let TT know that if it's on the Internet it has to be true.

Are we sure that the TT facebook page is real then ??? Maybe they're not who they say they are ... I mean ANYONE can post on the Internet


U do realize that to be labeled as an insider on this sight or others like avs you have to provide credentials to the super mods/ owners before they acknowledge them as an insider. Its not like u can come around and just randomly claim something and get accepted

[slimdude]

Originally Posted by thephantomcat

Actually, this Conan fellow is incredibly antagonistic and arrogant and clearly initiated the conversation with an agenda. "Thanks for confirming you don't care." He went into the discussion with his mind made up and ensured the conversation followed his preplanned path. This is what rude customers do. If he was calling about his phone bill, he'd be asking for a supervisor right now to get credit on his account which was his agenda from the beginning. But alas, TT is a small business run by a handful of people and they don't have to put up with rude customers.

TT can use whatever authoring facility they want. The nerve of some random guy on Facebook to think he can dictate how a company can run itself. Like TT said, he can choose to buy movies from them or not. What seems to bug people like him is that TT doesn't need them. That's the beauty of their business model. He doesn't want to buy Journey? So what. It's still going to sell out.

Exactly! If I were a Twilight Time employee, I would have written the same response, so therefore I don't blame Conan. If a person is dissatisfied with a product, that's manufactured from a specific company, then don't buy it. Like I've said before, you can't please everybody. Twilight Time is not holding a gun on nobody, forcing them to buy their blu-rays. One monkey don't stop a show. A person wouldn't patronize McDonald's, if they didn't like their food.

[BrandonJF]

Originally Posted by thephantomcat

Considering anyone on an anonymous forum a verified insider is, well.... Does the term Nigerian prince ring any bells? You are presenting something someone on some random forum said as a fact and then scoffing when tells you bot to believe everything you read on the Internet. Someone needs to let TT know that if it's on the Internet it has to be true.

TT is also scoffing at the idea that the issue even exists. So, those of us posting here "on the internet" who have seen the issues firsthand are who they do not want you to believe. We're lying.

So, let's say it's not a "defective encoder". It's going to be a defective something. This release is defective. That isn't even up for debate. Whether or not the defects bother people is another story. I imagine most people will be fine with this (or will work their hardest to convince themselves they are).

First, people were in an uproar that these issues were even brought up. Now, we're debating whether TT's dismissive response was appropriate? While there is no way it was ever "appropriate", they'll only get away that kind of demeanor as long as they believe their customers need them more than they need their customers. So, if this transfer is indicative of the quality standards TT is reaching for, will people still clamor for their high priced limited edition product? Ok, probably. If they have a genre title, it's probably selling out no matter what at this point.... unless the flippers don't make enough off this release.

Anchor Bay tried a dismissive response when it came to the Halloween 5 audio sync issue. Shout had the correct response when the same issue was reported to them. In the end, Anchor Bay sent out corrected discs.

[wormraper]

Originally Posted by BrandonJF

TT is also scoffing at the idea that the issue even exists. So, those of us posting here "on the internet" who have seen the issues firsthand are who they do not want you to believe. We're lying.

So, let's say it's not a "defective encoder". It's going to be a defective something. This release is defective. That isn't even up for debate. Whether or not the defects bother people is another story. I imagine most people will be fine with this (or will work their hardest to convince themselves they are).

First, people were in an uproar that these issues were even brought up. Now, we're debating whether TT's dismissive response was appropriate? While there is no way it was ever "appropriate", they'll only get away that kind of demeanor as long as they believe their customers need them more than they need their customers. So, if this transfer is indicative of the quality standards TT is reaching for, will people still clamor for their high priced limited edition product? Ok, probably. If they have a genre title, it's probably selling out no matter what at this point.... unless the flippers don't make enough off this release.

Anchor Bay tried a dismissive response when it came to the Halloween 5 audio sync issue. Shout had the correct response when the same issue was reported to them. In the end, Anchor Bay sent out corrected discs.

Bravo...they pulled the same stunt when Titus and Heaven & Earth got slammed. Denying every flaw as a figment of peoples imagination seems to be their mo

[KrugStillo]

Originally Posted by brasil

What of it?

Defective decoder just sounds like a statement someone who doesn't know what they are talking about would say. It wouldn't need to be "defective" for an issue to arrive. I've read that some companies have CBR (constant bit rate) transfers as opposed to VBR (variable bit rate) transfers done to save money. It cost more for VBR because it takes a considerable amount more time. The thing is on the user end it's tough to verify whether a VBR or CBR was used because even when it's constant it still fluctuates a bit. Just by reading the posts and looking at the screen caps this does seem to have some of the issues present with CBR. The slight gamma shift and macroblocking does occasionally happen when encoding with CBR at certain bit rates. So who knows that could be it. Or some tech could have forgotten to click a box in the program.

[thephantomcat]

Originally Posted by BrandonJF

TT is also scoffing at the idea that the issue even exists. So, those of us posting here "on the internet" who have seen the issues firsthand are who they do not want you to believe. We're lying.

So, let's say it's not a "defective encoder". It's going to be a defective something. This release is defective. That isn't even up for debate. Whether or not the defects bother people is another story. I imagine most people will be fine with this (or will work their hardest to convince themselves they are).

First, people were in an uproar that these issues were even brought up. Now, we're debating whether TT's dismissive response was appropriate? While there is no way it was ever "appropriate", they'll only get away that kind of demeanor as long as they believe their customers need them more than they need their customers. So, if this transfer is indicative of the quality standards TT is reaching for, will people still clamor for their high priced limited edition product? Ok, probably. If they have a genre title, it's probably selling out no matter what at this point.... unless the flippers don't make enough off this release.

Anchor Bay tried a dismissive response when it came to the Halloween 5 audio sync issue. Shout had the correct response when the same issue was reported to them. In the end, Anchor Bay sent out corrected discs.

Not being reference quality is not the same as being defective. There are hundreds of thousands of blu-rays listed on this website that are not 100% blemish free and that doesn't make them "defective". Otherwise there would be no need for a 5 star review scale. The Halloween audio sync issue was 20 minutes of continuous out of sync audio. This is a few instances of macroblocking that you wouldn't even notice if you weren't looking for it. Huge difference.

[thephantomcat]

Originally Posted by brasil

Look at earlier posts. Am hoping he responds to my question.

Still, you're conflating the factual existence of compression with this person and his unconfirmed theory as to why the compression exists. Yes I mentioned the possible defective encoder but fail to see what is wrong about that.

I like TT blu rays and buy a lot of their releases and will be buying more. That is why I hope they are made aware of the encoding error and can avoid future errors and releases I plan on buying.

If this theory of bad encoder is correct, it seems like it might be a very easy fix on future releases.

You didn't say it was possible, you declared the defective coder as fact twice. It was incredibly passive aggressive. "Can we expect all future titles to use this incredibly defective garbage worthy encoder?" was the implied message and TT responded accordingly.

[wormraper]

Originally Posted by thephantomcat

You didn't say it was possible, you declared the defective coder as fact twice. It was incredibly passive aggressive. "Can we expect all future titles to use this incredibly defective garbage worthy encoder?" was the implied message and TT responded accordingly.

Actually they skirted the questions like usual and just answered as "bull crap" the whole time

[thephantomcat]

Originally Posted by wormraper

Actually they skirted the questions like usual and just answered as "bull crap" the whole time

It was a loaded question.

[deltatauhobbit]

Originally Posted by wormraper

And if I were your boss I would have fired you. I dont know of a single person of management status who wouldn't have taken action on an employee who said something like that to a customer

And that would be for your business but not all businesses need to run that way. Believe it or not, there are some businesses that will kick you out for having an antagonistic "customer is always right" attitude. It is up to the discretion of the manager/owner so you don't see it often but sometimes you actually see the managers back up their employees when they know they are in the right. I applaud that when used correctly. I REALLY hate customers that think they can get their way if they just yell loud enough and sadly most times they do while those who quietly handle it don't get the same treatment. When I'm next to those people, I wish I could punch them in the face for the abuse some customer service reps have to take and I don't even work in that field (for good reason it seems haha).

I'd much rather have a business run consistently one way or the other. If one place has the policy "customer is always right", then they deserve every type of abuse they get. But if a business doesn't need to cater to the lowest common denominator, then I fully support them telling a customer to F-off if they're being rude while politely telling others "sorry, we can't help you with that".

That Facebook exchange was never going to go any other way. You can tell the person was just going to keep at it. Maybe TT should adopt a Marshawn Lynch style approach to answering questions. Sure, it's sad he got the response he was fishing for so quickly but I don't expect TT to know too much about encoding or low-pass filters, that's why they hire someone to do it and replicate. Maybe this incident will convince them to go back to the other facility to avoid future problems, much like how they won't touch NotLD again, but that doesn't mean customers can act like whiny b*tches all the time either.

Edit: Don't worry slimdude, I have a similar attitude and I make more than you

[thephantomcat]

Originally Posted by brasil

I did not declare any facts. Again it is you who doing what you accuse others of. It is you who "declaring" and being "passive aggressive." EX: changing my words to say "garbage worthy."

Again, the release IS defective. That is a fact. Maybe it's the decoder. What of it? Again you are conflating.

"Many are noticing a few instances of large marcoblocking, compression errors, on this 30th Anniversary release not present on the original or Sony release, due to your new authoring facility Ambient Media using a defect encoder. Will be using this defective encoder an future blu ray releases."

"I have seen the macroblocking myself on my disc as have many others. It is severe and produces a judder in the image. Are you going to continue to the defect encoding service on future releases?"

"Thanks for confirming you don't care about defective encoding. It is listed here post #2810. I was hoping for a good encode on Journey to the Center of the Earth. Now that is in doubt."

[thephantomcat]

Originally Posted by brasil

And? It is a fact that many have noticed this. Why did you edit this by leaving out TT responses?

I don't see the words you put in my mouth, do you? Nigerian Princes, garbage worthy...

It is you who have bad social skills and the attributes you say others do.

My suggestion is you stick to facts instead of making things up and hyperbole.

I never put words in your mouth. I certainly never said you mentioned Nigerian princes. I asked if you were familiar with the scam as you're presenting something someone said on this forum as fact regarding a "defective encoder". In regards to the garbage line, I made it clear that was an implied message. I don't see why you feel the need to personally attack me. I can only assume it's because you know you're wrong.

I don't understand why you find it so hard to admit that the idea that a "defective encoder" was used and is responsible is not a fact and only a rumor initiated by someone on this forum who we cannot verify is indeed an "insider". Pretty basic really.

[BrandonJF]

Originally Posted by thephantomcat

Not being reference quality is not the same as being defective. There are hundreds of thousands of blu-rays listed on this website that are not 100% blemish free and that doesn't make them "defective". Otherwise there would be no need for a 5 star review scale. The Halloween audio sync issue was 20 minutes of continuous out of sync audio. This is a few instances of macroblocking that you wouldn't even notice if you weren't looking for it. Huge difference.

This is well beyond "not being reference quality". Go ahead and list 5 Blu-Ray discs that have the same degree of macro-blocking/encoding issues as this release. Forget five - name ONE.

How far does your apologist attitude take you? When one short scene in "Pirates of the Caribbean" was misframed on the Blu-Ray, was that not a defect? Disney thought so. When one frame of "The Matrix Revolutions" broke up into a pixelated mess (which was less of an issue then what we are dealing with here), was that not a defect? Warner Bros. thought so. We aren't talking about transfer quality here. We are talking about portions of the image breaking up into a digital mess.

You must be missing that part where this has been seen without someone "looking for it". The first person who saw it wasn't "looking for it". I've seen it happen again in another instance without "looking for it".

Have you even watched this?

[ditcin]

Originally Posted by KrugStillo

Defective decoder just sounds like a statement someone who doesn't know what they are talking about would say. It wouldn't need to be "defective" for an issue to arrive. I've read that some companies have CBR (constant bit rate) transfers as opposed to VBR (variable bit rate) transfers done to save money. It cost more for VBR because it takes a considerable amount more time. The thing is on the user end it's tough to verify whether a VBR or CBR was used because even when it's constant it still fluctuates a bit. Just by reading the posts and looking at the screen caps this does seem to have some of the issues present with CBR. The slight gamma shift and macroblocking does occasionally happen when encoding with CBR at certain bit rates. So who knows that could be it. Or some tech could have forgotten to click a box in the program.

Yes this is very true and it's something I ran into when I was reviewing. I had a problem with the original HARRY POTTER release on DVD and noticed that the trailer had better color timing and overall PQ. When I looked closer via my oppo I saw that the film had a constant bitrate while the trailer didn't. I did screen caps of the same scene comparing both. WB was furious and told me to take down my review and threaten to take me off the screening list. I told them to correct the situation and I would. They took me off the list.

Since TT has stated that the same master was used for both releases isn't possible that the issues surfacing are always there but not noticeable due to the lower gamma setting on the first release? By raising the gamma level it exposed what people are seeing which they couldn't when the picture was darker?

If its the same master those "defects" should be there.

I know from my past dealings with various DVD releases when I acted as a consultant tweaking of masters during the digital authoring phase was done to improve on poor quality, or age of the master. When contrast or gamma levels were changed it did tend to reveal more inherent problems with grain, noise and even color. At the same time it sometimes covered those issues as well.
An over zealous tech can make or break a release.

[thephantomcat]

Originally Posted by BrandonJF

This is well beyond "not being reference quality". Go ahead and list 5 Blu-Ray discs that have the same degree of macro-blocking/encoding issues as this release. Forget five - name ONE.

How far does your apologist attitude take you? When one short scene in "Pirates of the Caribbean" was misframed on the Blu-Ray, was that not a defect? Disney thought so. When one frame of "The Matrix Revolutions" broke up into a pixelated mess (which was less of an issue then what we are dealing with here), was that not a defect? Warner Bros. thought so. We aren't talking about transfer quality here. We are talking about portions of the image breaking up into a digital mess.

You must be missing that part where this has been seen without someone "looking for it". The first person who saw it wasn't "looking for it". I've seen it happen again in another instance without "looking for it".

Have you even watched this?

Yes, I've watched it several times and I see nothing in the three scenes listed by the original poster. I did notice a small anomaly in the basement scene at the end, but this was on my third viewing overall and my second viewing "looking for it". So one the clock shot and pan up Gerry's leg and the fog when Evil walks through? Nothing. At all. I don't know what anyone is seeing there. No one has managed to post any screenshots of these alleged macroblocking issues. And before you ask, no. There is nothing wrong with my eyes.

So when you ask me to name a disc with issues "as bad" as this disc, it looks as good as any of the best catalog titles I've eve seen.