4K Blu-ray Confirmed, Coming in

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Well that settles it, Ray. Nothing like verbal reassurances , this from a V.P.

Are the manufacturers willing to back up their prophecy by offering a free 30,000 hr. warranty guarantee or will said warranty be coming from Pocket-lint? Seriously, I hope HDR with OLED doesn't become a lifespan issue and I truly want my next home display to be a big 4K OLED HDR tv, but those types of reassurances mean nothing to me

Even at thee most advanced levels of monitor design and production for the motion picture or broadcast community, some issues are unforeseen until real world users actually get these displays out in the field and put some hours on them with their hands and eyes

LG purchased WRGB tech from Kodak in 2009. LG began production of the OLED panels in 2011. More than enough time to run test panels 24/7/365 for 30,000+ hours.

http://www.oled-info.com/lg-buys-kodaks-oled-unit

http://www.oled-info.com/kodak/kodak...terview_page_2

Sell some of that Netflix stock and buy an LG 55EG9600. Amazon, Beach Camera are shipping them now. I prefer to wait for the HDR dust to settle with UHD Alliance set standards by 3rd quarter 2015 or perhaps 2016, when I will be seriously looking at LG UHD OLED displays. I'm in when the 65EG9600 hits around $5,000.

Re warranty. What LCD manufacturer is providing 60,000 hour warranty?

WRGB does not use RGB pixels. It uses white with RGB filter. In 2009 Kodak claimed 100,000 hours at 1000 nits for it. Read the interview in the second link.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Well that settles it, Ray. Nothing like verbal reassurances , this from a V.P. - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...952#post626952

Or another verbal reassurance, see cinema low down link - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...ve#post9553148

Although I do hope the engineers from “LG and manufacturers” aren’t the same engineers who developed the optical block for the SXRDs…https://sites.google.com/site/sonylc...ction-lawsuits ….or those who developed the DePuy Pinnacle Hip Replacement (approved by the FDA - http://www.consumerinjurylawyers.com...nnacle/lawsuit )….or the ones who made some of those notorious Takata airbags that are blasting shrapnel out at drivers, etc.

Are the manufacturers willing to back up their prophecy by offering a free 30,000 hr. warranty guarantee or will said warranty be coming from Pocket-lint? Seriously, I hope HDR with OLED doesn't become a lifespan issue and I truly want my next home display to be a big 4K OLED HDR tv, but those types of reassurances mean nothing to me and I would doubt Richard, as this isn't his first rodeo either. Can people who purchased HD DVD players ever sue Amir for misleading them about the viable production lifespan of HD DVD software to play in those HD DVD players….and receive fair damages?

Even at thee most advanced levels of monitor design and production for the motion picture or broadcast community, some issues are unforeseen until real world users actually get these displays out in the field and put some hours on them with their hands and eyes, e.g. -
” Sony Changing the target”….http://www.lightillusion.com/percept...our_match.html

When Sony first attempted to deal with metameric failure of their OLED displays they released a set of chromaticity xy offset values, that ranged from -0.001, -0.009, through -0.004, -0.013, depending on the probe used, and alternative display technology to be matched to.

In later documentation on the White Balance of BVM and PVM displays Sony reduced these values to a single set of xy offsets - x=-0.006, y=-0.011.

The problem is that none of these values are actually accurate, as the concept of simply adding an offset value to an existing CMF is too much of a compromise to correct for metameric failure...A far better approach is to utilize…..

Originally Posted by raygendreau

LG purchased WRGB tech from Kodak in 2009. LG began production of the OLED panels in 2011. More than enough time to run test panels 24/7/365 for 30,000+ hours.

http://www.oled-info.com/lg-buys-kodaks-oled-unit

http://www.oled-info.com/kodak/kodak...terview_page_2

Sell some of that Netflix stock and buy an LG 55EG9600. Amazon, Beach Camera are shipping them now. I prefer to wait for the HDR dust to settle with UHD Alliance set standards by 3rd quarter 2015 or perhaps 2016, when I will be seriously looking at LG UHD OLED displays. I'm in when the 65EG9600 hits around $5,000.

Re warranty. What LCD manufacturer is providing 60,000 hour warranty?

WRGB does not use RGB pixels. It uses white with RGB filter. In 2009 Kodak claimed 100,000 hours at 1000 nits for it. Read the interview in the second link.

Well I like your passion for OLED but your references still don’t do much for me …certainly not enough to sell off some of my Netflix shares.

I might be more assured by examining a peer reviewed scientific study (not a marketing interview) from an independent lab (or even perhaps a lab commissioned by LG, working under the premise of non-bias, to prove the claimed longevity) in which they displayed HDR mastered content “24/7/365 for 30,000+ hours” on even a prototype OLED monitor capable of outputting a peak brightness luminance of at least 800 nits.

HDR video samples (if you know who to contact) have been available since at least the time when LG began production of their OLED panels, so content acquisition for a large electronics company like LG to play out on their OLEDs shouldn’t have been a problem.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

I prefer to wait for the HDR dust to settle with UHD Alliance set standards by 3rd quarter 2015 or perhaps 2016

Well if LG is promising to unveil an OLED with an HDR solution at IFA ( http://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarch...third-quarter/ ) then it stands to reason they are also promising that the UHD Alliance would have to establish their HDR standard by about this upcoming July,or at latest, August in time for them to get all their ducks in line for IFA in Berlin in Sept., no?

Good to hear the UHD Alliance will be addressing their official HDR standard in such an expedient fashion.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

a peer reviewed scientific study...from an independent lab

Although being about other HDR-related matters and using an LED back-lit LCD rather than OLED and the fact that I don’t agree with everything that is stated, this, for instance, is what I mean by “a peer-reviewed scientific study by an independent lab”…..http://empamedia.ethz.ch/publication...per2013CIC.pdf

[J. Cormier]

with this upgraded technology, will I then not be able to use my PS4 to watch a 4k disc? (it sounds like they should go hand in hand)

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by J. Cormier

with this upgraded technology, will I then not be able to use my PS4 to watch a 4k disc? (it sounds like they should go hand in hand)

Nope, tho rumours persist a revision is coming

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by J. Cormier

with this upgraded technology, will I then not be able to use my PS4 to watch a 4k disc? (it sounds like they should go hand in hand)

I would be very much surprised if the PS4 could be easily upgraded to play UHD discs.

Maybe their next system, which is rumored to be coming.

[Geoff D]

I agree with mike, I think we'll see it included when the PS4 gets revised, just like the slim PS3 had HDMI features added (or at least activated) versus the fatty boombatty original model. Yes, I *know* that factoring in UHD BD is a much bigger step than getting HDMI CEC to work, but even so, it's hardly pie-in-the-sky stuff. Get an HEVC decoder in there, change out the HDMI chip for something with HDCP 2.2 (either 10.2 Gb/s or the full fat version, I don't think it really matters at this stage) and do whatever needs doing to the disc drive, either with new hardware or a firmware update to the existing one. (Sony could maybe put in a WCG-to-xvYCC conversion too, so us early 4K owners could at least get the benefit of the wider gamut.)

[Richard Paul]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

Lifespan is not an issue and neither will HDR be an issue.

"LG and other manufacturers have since cracked it. It says that its OLED TVs now have a lifespan in normal viewing conditions of 30,000 before deterioration in brightness. That's around 10 years if you watch a bit more than around eight hours of TV a day, every day. And that's not in eco mode."

I have a Panasonic Plasma TV that got a channel logo burned into it less than two years after I bought it and it had a 100,000 hour lifespan. I also have a Samsung Galaxy S4 that got burn in less than a year after I bought it (though that is understandable considering the stationary layout of the screen). As such I am a bit skeptical about a 30,000 hour lifespan with an unknown brightness level.

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Are the manufacturers willing to back up their prophecy by offering a free 30,000 hr. warranty guarantee or will said warranty be coming from Pocket-lint? Seriously, I hope HDR with OLED doesn't become a lifespan issue and I truly want my next home display to be a big 4K OLED HDR tv, but those types of reassurances mean nothing to me and I would doubt Richard, as this isn't his first rodeo either. Can people who purchased HD DVD players ever sue Amir for misleading them about the viable production lifespan of HD DVD software to play in those HD DVD players….and receive fair damages?

That is a good point and it is a good idea to take what a company says with a grain of salt since they are trying to sell a product.

Originally Posted by raygendreau

WRGB does not use RGB pixels. It uses white with RGB filter. In 2009 Kodak claimed 100,000 hours at 1000 nits for it.

So how did the WRGB OLED lifespan go from 100,000 hours at 1000 nits in 2009 to 30,000 hours with an unknown brightness level in 2015? In my opinion the LG lifespan number doesn't mean much since they don't provide an explanation for how they got it.

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

So how did the WRGB OLED lifespan go from 100,000 hours at 1000 nits in 2009 to 30,000 hours with an unknown brightness level in 2015? In my opinion the LG lifespan number doesn't mean much since they don't provide an explanation for how they got it.

From the link in a prior post: " For full-color pixilated RGB displays, new materials in development at Kodak provide outstanding lifetime and power consumption. Critical new technologies include Electron Transfer Layer and Electron Injection Layer materials enabling low OLED voltage and high efficiency; high-efficiency blue and green dopants that reduce the operating current density; and stable host materials for blue and green emitters.

For displays, Kodak has pioneered the W-RGBW pixel architecture. This consists of a WOLED with four sub-pixels per pixel. Three sub-pixels emit through red, green or blue color filters, and the fourth has no filter, leaving it white. This scheme delivers high efficiency, enables larger displays and significantly improves manufacturing yield for displays of all sizes. In addition, Kodak's proprietary set of color filters enables a previously unattainable level of color gamut, while maintaining high efficiency. Combining Kodak's pixel architecture, color filter, OLED materials and architecture advancements yields displays that have high power efficiency, greater than 100% NTSC x,y color gamut, and are estimated to have a half-life much greater than 100,000 hours.

The 100,000 was a theoretical estimate in 2009. The 30,000 half life is based on panel testing which started in 2011. You may choose to believe it or not. I believe it.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

That is a good point and it is a good idea to take what a company says with a grain of salt since they are trying to sell a product.

Another thing is, the 70” 4K Vizio I bought several months ago could die a premature death the day after my warranty expires and it really wouldn’t bother me much at all, given the low price I paid for the unit….BUT, if I purchased a similar sized 4K HDR OLED for home use and it were to die early (given its hefty price tag), well, that would be much more difficult to swallow.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I agree with mike...

I must think of a treat to post for mike, since he might be overwhelmed with all this HDR goodness discussion. Give me a few minutes. We want everyone here to be happy.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by dvdmike

CCE ENR Bleach Bypass call it what you want, that is the look i love...

Then you may like this movie….a bleach bypass process done on the neg yielded this look -

The Search French Trailer (2014) - Bérénice Bejo, Annette Bening Drama HD - YouTube

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

...You may choose to believe it or not. I believe it.

Well, anyway despite your lower threshold for real scientific proof, we love early adopters here because they truly are trail blazers for the rest of us, making it easier for us (and our wallets) to follow. I appreciate that . Ray, I like your passion for HDR OLED and I hope this revelation doesn’t rile you up in regards to getting the full potential out of your OLED with Blu-ray movies, be them in SDR, for alas, we all still live under the murky shadow of LCD, see 3rd paragraph - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...ck#post9103476

Life is full of compromises.

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Then you may like this movie….a bleach bypass process done on the neg yielded this look -

The Search French Trailer (2014) - Bérénice Bejo, Annette Bening Drama HD - YouTube

Are you sure? It had a DI and that would suggest a fake filter, can't find any info on it.
Do any of the labs do bypass anymore, I thought they'll stopped due to costs involved

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Well, anyway despite your lower threshold for real scientific proof, we love early adopters here because they truly are trail blazers for the rest of us, making it easier for us (and our wallets) to follow. I appreciate that . Ray, I like your passion for HDR OLED and I hope this revelation doesn’t rile you up in regards to getting the full potential out of your OLED with Blu-ray movies, be them in SDR or HDR, for alas, we all still live under the murky shadow of LCD, see 3rd paragraph - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...ck#post9103476

Life is full of compromises.

We are beginning the 3rd generation of OLED with UHD OLED displays. There are 77,000 2nd generation OLED owners with 3000 or more hours on their 1080P displays. Check the LG OLED thread in the Display sub forum for their experience with their OLEDs.

We are approaching the end of the Early Adopter phase and will probably enter the Early Majority phase by 2016 when 2.2 Million OLED displays are forecast. In 2013/2014 the LG 55 1080P OLED was introduced at $25K. you can buy it today for about $3,500.

http://www.oled-info.com/tags/market_reports

http://www.oled-info.com/tags/market-reports/isupply

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_a...Innovation.png

The 2015 LG line up got a lot of attention and awards at the 2015 CES

I took one look at the 1080P OLED on display at my local best buy and the black level can only be described with superlatives like stunning, incredible, amazing. That's all the "proof" that I need.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by dvdmike

Are you sure? It had a DI and that would suggest a fake filter, can't find any info on it.
Do any of the labs do bypass anymore, I thought they'll stopped due to costs involved

I’m purty confident, but for you (since I'm working you to become more HDR friendly ) I’ll ask my colleague for some ‘official’ source that is publicly viewable. I have no personal experience with the production as I’m relying on what someone in the industry (Technicolor France) revealed to me about a year ago during a post production discussion.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

We are beginning the 3rd generation of OLED with UHD OLED displays. There are 77,000 2nd generation OLED owners with 3000 or more hours on their 1080P displays....

Sounds impressive to the casual reader. Hey, I want it to be true, but the verifiable lifespan of 30,000+ hours for 800 nit or higher capable LG consumer OLED displays constantly running HDR content still remains a question, despite your references.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

I took one look at the 1080P OLED on display at my local best buy and the black level can only be described with superlatives like stunning, incredible, amazing. That's all the "proof" that I need.

I wouldn't say that Best Buy, at least the one down the road from me, is the most optimal viewing environment but nevertheless, you didn’t understand my prior reply, maybe you should re-read my post if you don’t possess the technical background. I was pointing out that our LCD consumer universe is holding back the full potential of OLED display technology, i.e. it could be even better.

I was complimenting you (at least, for being a trail blazer) and OLED display technology in general with regards to its ‘black level’, which I agree “can be described with superlatives like stunning, incredible, amazing”, in fact, it’s soooo black (and you won’t find this OLED information on sites like (oled-info whatever.com or respectfully (because its ours ) the LG OLED thread in the Display sub forum), but that in professional grading suites, using most brand/model OLED monitors, a good rule of thumb is that the blacks should be raised to 0.05 Nits, again a concession to inferior display technology as a result of the vast majority of consumers watching movies on displays (LCDs) which are capable of blacks no lower than 0.05 nits – and that’s generous, for that figure is probably closer to 0.1 nits.

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Sounds impressive to the casual reader. Hey, I want it to be true, but the verifiable lifespan of 30,000+ hours for 800 nit or higher capable LG consumer OLED displays constantly running HDR content still remains a question, despite your references.

Sony claims the same 30,000 hour panel life for their pro OLED monitors:

"One of the major issues with OLEDs is the lifetime. Can you share with us the quoted lifetime of the TriMaster OLEDs?

A: According to our tests, the Trimaster panel lifetime is around 30,000 hours (Actual performance varies based on setting, environmental conditions and usage). When compared to our CRT models, that’s about a 30% longer life than we got from a tube. We’re very proud of this and we’re doing a number of unique things in the monitor design to achieve this, such as enhancing the design of the top emission panel architecture. To support this claim, we’ve put a 3 year warranty on the BVM series and a 2 year warranty on the PVM series."

http://www.oled-info.com/interview-s...roduct-manager

The 30,000 hour panel half life is for the 2nd gen LG 550 nit panels.

I believe the HDR (800 nit) LG panels will be introduced in the 3rd quarter of 2015. Prototype was demoed at CES 2015. I have no idea how long they have been testing 800 nit panels.