Is there any publication to say those 2 are Neo-Noir other than that one site?
I've seen both and the element of a noir that I don't remember is a darkness in tone....
I've always thought of Fat City as a Sports Drama...
Devil in a Blue Dress is a crime drama based on a book by Walter Mosley...it was directed by Carl Franklin but I would think his One False Move was closer to noir....
Did you see the update at the top of the post you quoted? I state that based on what others have said, Fat City has been removed from the list.
As for Devil, I'd say there's a much stronger case. It has a definite throwback feel to classic noirs in a number of ways including the way it was filmed, and the dialogue.
Here's an excerpt from an artice that touches on the L.A. noir attributes of it
Code:
http://www.jstor.org/stable/1225799
Excerpt from Encyclopedia of Film Noir (touches on the reasoning behind the (atypical for noir) type of ending)
Much of Devil In A Blue Dress is textbook noir: A shadowy figure approaches the detective with a seemingly straightforward case that has more dimension than meets the eye. Soon he’s forced to work multiple angles and sort out who, if anyone, he can trust, as various parties—cops, politicians, sexy dames—try to use him for their benefit.
Easy Rawlins is a private citizen, not strictly speaking a private eye. He is also a black man. But these two significant--and dramatically potent--differences aside, novelist Walter Mosley's creation is the truest heir we have yet had to Raymond Chandler's immortal Philip Marlowe. And writer-director Carl Franklin's cool, expert adaptation of Devil in a Blue Dress, Mosley's first novel, evokes the spirit of '40s film noir more effectively than any movie since Chinatown.
Just the names alone let you know where you stand with "Devil in a Blue Dress." Easy Rawlins. DeWitt Albright. Daphne Monet. These are names from the noir universe, from the hard-boiled books and films of the 1940s that created a world that existed more on the screen than in the streets - a world of shady deals and moral compromise, blackmail, revenge and secrets from the past. The private eye is the natural inhabitant of these mean streets - standing outside the worlds of law and crime, paid by the hour, his moral code his own business. More than by anyone else, this world was created by Raymond Chandler, whose novels have just been enshrined in the Library of America, right alongside Henry James and Abraham Lincoln.
But Easy Rawlins, who lives in the 1940s, is a modern fictional creation, born in the recent novels of Walter Mosley. As a private eye, Rawlins is made, not born. He doesn't come equipped with an office with his name on the door and a bottle in the bottom desk drawer. He has a nice little two-bedroom bungalow with a lawn to mow, and the whole world of DeWitts and Daphnes is alien to him.
The movie is constructed to follow him on a journey into noir, as he picks up the trail of Daphne Monet. He meets Coretta James (Lisa Nicole Carson), an alleged friend of hers, and has a quick, intense romance with her, before she is found dead. He enlists Mouse (Don Cheadle), an old friend from Houston, to help him out. Mouse is at least comfortable with firearms. Too comfortable: "You only been in my house five minutes, and you already done shot someone," Easy says, in the Texas accent he brought West with him.
Then Daphne Monet (Jennifer Beals) walks into his life, dressed to kill, as the dames always were in the 1940s. She wants help, in a way, but she doesn't want involvement, and as Easy finds his way further into the case, it begins to take on overtones of "Chinatown," a pre-war Los Angeles noir in which the past has unexpected relationships to the present, and the most unexpected people have connections you'd never dream of.
"Devil in a Blue Dress" was written and directed by Carl Franklin, whose "One False Move" remains one of the great recent crime movies. In both films, certain plot elements are similar, but here he creates a rich atmospheric style, a mood; the characters do not stand on their own so much as inhabit places within a traditional frame.
I liked the movie without quite being caught up in it: I liked the period, tone and look more than the story, which I never really cared much about. The explanation, when it comes, tidies all the loose ends, but you're aware it's arbitrary - an elegant solution to a chess problem, rather than a necessary outcome of guilt and passion. If you accept that (and it's a given in a lot of modern noir), then the movie is entertaining on its own terms, and Washington's warmth at the center of it is like our own bemusement, as together we return to the shadows of noir.
As always, I'm open to discussion about what should and shouldn't make the list.
Very happy to read that Twilight Time is releasing Devil In A Blue Dress on BD. In my opinion it's definitely a neo noir. Thanks MifuneFan for the Ebert review, and I think I liked the movie more than he did. I can now upgrade my DVD.
Re the newly announced TT titles, At Close Range, Black Widow, and Devil In a Blue Dress are in the Neo-Noir section of the Film Noir:The Encyclopedia book.
Didn't someone mention that there was only like seventeen true film noire and all the rest were dubious?
I'd sure like to see that list as several of the ones I've purchased recently have had minimal noir elements in them.
Someone did, early in the thread, but the post must have harshed someone's buzz because it appears to have been deleted. The list is in "A Panorama of American Film Noir." The authors of that book discovered and named film noir. I think they only found about fifteen -- some that the salesclerks tout as film noir, the book's authors classify as "police procedural," etc.
Well, I enrolled in TCM's course. I really, really wish I had TCM, but I think I'll have to make do with public domain copies of many of these films as they go through them.
Oh well. I can always collect them on blu-ray afterwards. Right now I just want to see them (and learn about them, of course).
Well, I enrolled in TCM's course. I really, really wish I had TCM, but I think I'll have to make do with public domain copies of many of these films as they go through them.
Oh well. I can always collect them on blu-ray afterwards. Right now I just want to see them (and learn about them, of course).
I wish TCM was even an option to me (I'm in Australia).
I've been looking ahead in the schedule, and I'm disappointed at how many of the films are available in any format (public domain or iTunes, Netflix etc).
Some are on DVD in the US of course, but even if I wanted to go that far, they wouldn't arrive here in time.
The main film each week will be public domain of course, but I really wanted to participate a little more.
Anyway, we purchased a few on iTunes, and we do have about 8 or 9 of the scheduled films on Blu Ray.
DVR'd a few of the film's from TCM's Summer of Darkness and watched two today. Stranger on the Third Floor and High Sierra. SonTF had some fantastic lighting and classic angle shots but the acting was a bit hokey, except for Peter Lorre who was creepy as hell. High Sierra has fantastic acting by both noir legends Bogart and Lupino, great writing and story. Not as dark as most noirs, but I can see how this movie sets the stage for others like it in the heist genre. I would love to see both these movies on blu-ray someday.
DVR'd a few of the film's from TCM's Summer of Darkness and watched two today. Stranger on the Third Floor and High Sierra. SonTF had some fantastic lighting and classic angle shots but the acting was a bit hokey, except for Peter Lorre who was creepy as hell. High Sierra has fantastic acting by both noir legends Bogart and Lupino, great writing and story. Not as dark as most noirs, but I can see how this movie sets the stage for others like it in the heist genre. I would love to see both these movies on blu-ray someday.
High Sierra should hopefully make it to blu-ray this year. I recorded a bunch that I haven't seen or haven't seen in a long time. Unfortunately TCM is at the mercy of studios and a lot of times they have old beat up prints. I watched Journey Into Fear and it looks like ass and I believe WB owns it. Some of the smaller studios films are just rotting away in a vault somewhere.
Watched WOMAN ON THE RUN last night from TCM and generally enjoyed it though it was a bit too sentimental for my hardcore noir tastes, especially some ill advised humor with a dog and a crusty cop played to perfection by Robert Keith. The writing is never as clever as it thinks it is, but the acting is excellent and the location photography in San Francisco and Santa Monica is just fantastic. I'm glad the FNF helped restore it even if it's a lesser noir, but I wonder if Mueller spearheading this particular project had to do with seeing his beloved home town of San Francisco as it looked in 1949.
I'll definitely go for a Blu of it, but probably not at Flicker Alley's price point if they wind up doing it. I thought VCI did a fine job on the FNF restored THE PROWLER and the price was more attractive than we've ever seen from Flicker Alley.
Well, I enrolled in TCM's course. I really, really wish I had TCM, but I think I'll have to make do with public domain copies of many of these films as they go through them.
Oh well. I can always collect them on blu-ray afterwards. Right now I just want to see them (and learn about them, of course).
Most of the films so far seem to be available on YouTube...look to the right when you watch the TCM clips, though I did see one today which requires you to join another site which I personally passed on...
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