Little Difference in SUC, Blu is the Way!

[stockstar1138]

http://www.crunchgear.com/2008/08/18...ng-dvd-player/

i didn't see this posted, sorry if it has.

The player is to retail at $150, that really is not much cheaper than blu. However, I expect this player to drop in price quickly....when nobody buys it.

my favorite line is this: "People who’d want to spend extra money on their home entertainment might as well go for Blu-ray. Like, who is investing in a DVD system in 2008?"

[dobyblue]

Ha, ha, Toshiba are such a bunch of idiots.
They are holding so fast to an idea of yesterday, not at all in accordance with their company's tagline.

(Innovating Technology)

[RUR]

“Subtle but noticeable” isn’t exactly a ringing endorsement, it must be said. Frankly, they sound like weasel words.

What would one expect from a bunch of weasels?

Is Jodi Sally still in charge of their stellar marketing? Is she still wearing her zippy Star Trek outfit?

[tron3]

Both you guys live in guilded cages. Roughly 75% of homes in the USA still have SD 4:3 TV's only. Thus, will not even look at blu-ray seriously until they have HDTV.

Toshiba lost the war but continues on the DVD front because there is a market who will buy into it. I bought a Panasonic VHS / DVD player with upconversion months ago. Why? Because I wanted it for my room. I still have VHS which could use conversion to DVD, as well.

Toshiba isn't totally stupid, just too big for their britches. They aren't trying to destroy blu-ray any more because they already lost so much in that war. They are merely making the best of it with what is left. All the pompous coporate speak and blu-ray bashing isn't going to slow BD adoption by much.

Economy is bad and this will be a rough Christmas, but I see other gifts being left on store shelves in favor of blu-ray. There is simply nothing else like it - any more.

[dobyblue]

Ah Tron, but what YOU are missing is that almost 100% of that 70% of folk with 4:3 SDTV's will also NOT be looking at a $150 Toshiba DVD player!!

[stockstar1138]

Originally Posted by tron3

Both you guys live in guilded cages. Roughly 75% of homes in the USA still have SD 4:3 TV's only. Thus, will not even look at blu-ray seriously until they have HDTV.

Toshiba lost the war but continues on the DVD front because there is a market who will buy into it. I bought a Panasonic VHS / DVD player with upconversion months ago. Why? Because I wanted it for my room. I still have VHS which could use conversion to DVD, as well.

Toshiba isn't totally stupid, just too big for their britches. They aren't trying to destroy blu-ray any more because they already lost so much in that war. They are merely making the best of it with what is left. All the pompous coporate speak and blu-ray bashing isn't going to slow BD adoption by much.

Economy is bad and this will be a rough Christmas, but I see other gifts being left on store shelves in favor of blu-ray. There is simply nothing else like it - any more.

your right, but you are wrong.

answer yourself this if you have a 4:3 SDTV, why would you buy Toshibas $150 Super-Dee-Duper Upconversion player? You wouldn't.

I have nothing against them promoting DVD, its when they try to pass off DVD as a substitute over BD for HD content, that I have a big problem with.

DVD is a big market and will continue to be a big market, so cater to your market Toshbia, don't try to steal a market that you have already failed to win in with an even more inferior product.

and Tron, I believe you are seriously wrong, when you say that you don't think Toshiba is trying to destroy the BD market, they are trying to destroy the BD market. They don't invest a billion dollars in CELL for 960p upconversion if they aren't gunning after blu-ray.

[tron3]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

Ah Tron, but what YOU are missing is that almost 100% of that 70% of folk with 4:3 SDTV's will also NOT be looking at a $150 Toshiba DVD player!!

Well, I bought an upconversion DVD player to play my DVD's to save the wear and tear on my BD player.

Originally Posted by stockstar1138

your right, but you are wrong.

answer yourself this if you have a 4:3 SDTV, why would you buy Toshibas $150 Super-Dee-Duper Upconversion player? You wouldn't.

I have nothing against them promoting DVD, its when they try to pass off DVD as a substitute over BD for HD content, that I have a big problem with.

DVD is a big market and will continue to be a big market, so cater to your market Toshbia, don't try to steal a market that you have already failed to win in with an even more inferior product.

and Tron, I believe you are seriously wrong, when you say that you don't think Toshiba is trying to destroy the BD market, they are trying to destroy the BD market. They don't invest a billion dollars in CELL for 960p upconversion if they aren't gunning after blu-ray.

Ahh, my friend, nice points. But ever consider that Toshiba is trying to destroy itself? We live in a world of incompetent CEO's who head up corporations and never set foot in the stores themselves.

Sure, I can agree Toshiba is pissed and honestly do believe they are still taking jabs at blu-ray. I was just trying to take the higher road instead of bashing them. But it looks like I'll have to find my wacking stick and join you guys.

[Beta Man]

again..... it's important to note that everyone won't WANT HD.... people who are content with what is already out there want extended support.... and Their local blockbuster has SHELVES upon SHELVES of DVDs.... many people just get them from their public library (very smart thing to do) so for preople like this who don't feel the need to own the discs, there are some who just want the media that is readily available to them, in the best possible manner.....

Then there are the people who say "I don't need a Blu-ray player because I have my Wii add-on that upconverts my VHS tapes to 1080p" these are the "uninformed" but the bottom line, that you can't argue with, is if THEY think this player is converting their existing DVD they got from blockbuster to 1080p, and if THEY can't notice the difference (or have never seen true 1080p for instance, or have a non-hd T.V. etc) they're not going to have a need/desire to invest in any other format anytime soon.


The main roadblock Blu-ray still has to "mass-acceptance" is the lack of titles.... Joe-Consumer sees DVDs at the library, best-buy, blockbuster, etc.... and the blu-ray offering is very small in comparison (if they even have one)

There are no blu-rays at the video rental store in my Parents' town.... they don't have a Best Buy/CC etc..... they have a Walmart that has only been there for a few years, so it may have them now, but I don't know....

[tron3]

Originally Posted by Beta Man

...

The main roadblock Blu-ray still has to "mass-acceptance" is the lack of titles.... Joe-Consumer sees DVDs at the library, best-buy, blockbuster, etc.... and the blu-ray offering is very small in comparison (if they even have one) ...

Love for a few movie titles has bigger influence in the purchase of BD media than you think.

I worked for Radio Shack when Finding Nemo came out in theaters. As was noted by my manager in training, he said Finding Nemo was THE movie to have on DVD. DVD's sales really took a jump that year and Finding Nemo was often the reason behind it - aside from better prices for DVD players.

I often have said that I considered buying blu-ray for Spider-Man 3, but after seeing Transformers in the theater, I looked back from the top of the aisle just as the final credits were ending. I told myself there and then I was buying blu-ray for Transformers. Little would I know that a month later Paramount would switch teams. So, in two more weeks the reason for my blu-ray player will finally be in my hot little hands and life will be complete.

That is until I can get Iron Man, Shrek Series, The Incredibles and yes, Finding Nemo.

[Marine Mike]

“Subtle but noticeable” isn’t exactly a ringing endorsement, it must be said. Frankly, they sound like weasel words.

Though I can almost garentee the majority of the consumers that purchase this, will not have read this article nor will have seen a side-by-side comparison to Blu-Ray.

They will go off the fact that the people will hear what they want to hear. If they hear that their 1000+ DVDs will look better by buying this piece of equipment, they will do so. Now for the more informed consumer that researches products, they would have already done the research and realized that Blu-Ray is the better investment and forgo this purchase and instead buy a Blu-Ray player.

On the other hand, the economy is down and Christmas will be tight for a lot of familys. So this may in fact be the 'Family Gift' in a lot of households with a few new DVD titles.

[Beta Man]

Originally Posted by tron3

Love for a few movie titles has bigger influence in the purchase of BD media than you think.

You're talking about people who BUY the media...... Joe Consumer rents....

[Beta Man]

Originally Posted by Marine Mike

They will go off the fact that the people will hear what they want to hear. If they hear that their 1000+ DVDs will look better by buying this piece of equipment, they will do so. Now for the more informed consumer that researches products, they would have already done the research and realized that Blu-Ray is the better investment and forgo this purchase and instead buy a Blu-Ray player.

Generally people who have that many DVDs are aware that Blu-ray is better, but it's a thought-out decision to get upconverters etc.... It's purely an economical decision.... I can't afford to replace all of my DVDs, but I'll buy blu-ray from hear out it's just the natural progression of things.... If I honestly cared that much about PQ, (and even liked the upconverted PQ) I'd buy a more expensive player to upconvert my current DVDs.... but for me, it isn't really important.

[Teazle]

Originally Posted by Beta Man

again..... it's important to note that everyone won't WANT HD....

One thing to add is that upconversion isn't always desirable for DVD. I'm collecting certain classic TV shows and I deliberately don't want to play them at any res higher than 480p so that they'll look roughly like they did on first broadcast.

(My TV is a CRT with a true 480p mode; when the time comes to upgrade to a 1080p plasma I will watch NTSC shows in a small 640x480p window to help preserve the "I'm staring at the idiot box" ergonomic of classic television viewing.)


Re: HDTV penetration in the US, isn't it past 40% by now?

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by tron3

Well, I bought an upconversion DVD player to play my DVD's to save the wear and tear on my BD player.

I can buy one too, for $49!
Or I can buy a $29 supermarket DVD-player and let my $3,000 TV do the upscaling.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by Beta Man

You're talking about people who BUY the media...... Joe Consumer rents....

Not anymore - plenty of J6P buy discs from BB previously viewed, or the $6 bin at the supermarket/Wal*Mart, etc.

There's a reason why 8 million copies of Transformers sold on DVD in the first week alone.

[RUR]

Hey! It's got a zippy algorithm which "adds edge enhancement precisely where it’s needed". Too bad the disc authoring got that pesky edge enhancement wrong, eh?
http://www.electronichouse.com/artic...echnology/C205

I'm confused about the market for this player. To use it, you need an HDTV (or EDTV) with HDMI, so anyone who can use this player can also use a Blu-ray player, yes? Prospective purchasers would need to be sufficiently enamored of the "subtle, but noticeable" improvements to shell out 5X the cost of existing budget upscaling players, but they must not be impressed by the significantly better PQ of Blu-ray to pay a little more for true HD. Am I missing something or does this seem like a rather constrained set of demographics?

[stockstar1138]

good god read some of the comments in the link in teh OP, rabid DVD/HD DVD fanboys.

[Tok]

Originally Posted by Marine Mike

Though I can almost garentee the majority of the consumers that purchase this, will not have read this article nor will have seen a side-by-side comparison to Blu-Ray.

They will go off the fact that the people will hear what they want to hear. If they hear that their 1000+ DVDs will look better by buying this piece of equipment, they will do so. Now for the more informed consumer that researches products, they would have already done the research and realized that Blu-Ray is the better investment and forgo this purchase and instead buy a Blu-Ray player.

On the other hand, the economy is down and Christmas will be tight for a lot of familys. So this may in fact be the 'Family Gift' in a lot of households with a few new DVD titles.

What do you think Best Buy and Circuit City and other electronic retailers will be pushing especially to customers who are also buying HDTVs? This XDE player or BD which also can upconvert DVDs and PLAY BDs. Plus the margins are much better on BD players than this "subtle improvement" DVD player.

[Beta Man]

Originally Posted by stockstar1138

good god read some of the comments in the link in teh OP, rabid DVD/HD DVD fanboys.

I felt the need to comment

[stockstar1138]

Originally Posted by Beta Man

I felt the need to comment

nice post.

you should also address the fact that BD hardware is not $500 and discs aren't $35 a piece.

If those people want to play and quote MSRPs, then DVD is still like $27.99