Fantastic Four (2015)

[DisneyBlu]

Originally Posted by Darkstream

Man, I really hope this means Marvel will get the rights to the Fantastic Four back!


Fox...





You still got the X-Men!

That would be great. After three outings, Fox has proved they don't have a handle on the Fantastic Four. If they hold onto the rights, it would be to spite Marvel. They wouldn't want to give Marvel yet another hit property. It would look bad on Fox if Marvel did what Fox couldn't do with three tries: make a smash hit Fantastic Four franchise.

But Fantastic Four has been advertised on Disney Channel. Maybe the relationship between Disney and Fox isn't as bad or as antagonistic as some thought?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=jV1Caw42wQI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D94KOa0hhoM

[Walts Ghost]

The reviews are disheartening, but I'm still going to be there opening night to form my own opinion. I am bummed out to see that the Fox Studio, who clearly learned from their mistakes with some of the previous mistakes of some of their X-Men films, has seemingly made many of the same mistakes with this film. The Fantastic Four honestly deserves much better. I hope I get some enjoyment out of it Thursday night, but damn...Just damn. It's a bummer. At least we still have great X-Men films from Fox. They just don't seem to get Fantastic Four.

[spiderfan1985]

Did Fox lift the embargo on reviews? I'll still go see it and decide for myself, but dang.

[Darkstream]

Maybe I'm just seeing things too diplomatically here, but I can't see how Fox would not benefit from Marvel's support. Unlike Marvel's relationship with Sony, Marvel and Fox got into a bad way and now Marvel won't sign off on any licensing deals for the X-Men and FF characters Fox holds the rights to. That's why there are no X-Men or FF Happy Meals or action figures or art-of-the-movie books for these films. I'm sure it's not as easy as this, but if only Fox would make arrangements with Marvel to give the FF and related characters back to Marvel, then in return Fox can keep X-Men and get Marvel's support with X-Men promotions and merchandising.

[Walts Ghost]

Originally Posted by spiderfan1985

Did Fox lift the embargo on reviews? I'll still go see it and decide for myself, but dang.

No, the major trades broke the embargo. It still lifts tomorrow night at 6pm.

[GC Riot]

Originally Posted by Darkstream

Maybe I'm just seeing things too diplomatically here, but I can't see how Fox would not benefit from Marvel's support. Unlike Marvel's relationship with Sony, Marvel and Fox got into a bad way and now Marvel won't sign off on any licensing deals for the X-Men and FF characters Fox holds the rights to. That's why there are no X-Men or FF Happy Meals or action figures or art-of-the-movie books for these films. I'm sure it's not as easy as this, but if only Fox would make arrangements with Marvel to give the FF and related characters back to Marvel, then in return Fox can keep X-Men and get Marvel's support with X-Men promotions and merchandising.

That almost seems like blackmail. Bad Marvel!

[DisneyBlu]

Originally Posted by Darkstream

Maybe I'm just seeing things too diplomatically here, but I can't see how Fox would not benefit from Marvel's support. Unlike Marvel's relationship with Sony, Marvel and Fox got into a bad way and now Marvel won't sign off on any licensing deals for the X-Men and FF characters Fox holds the rights to. That's why there are no X-Men or FF Happy Meals or action figures or art-of-the-movie books for these films. I'm sure it's not as easy as this, but if only Fox would make arrangements with Marvel to give the FF and related characters back to Marvel, then in return Fox can keep X-Men and get Marvel's support with X-Men promotions and merchandising.

The Disney/Fox relationship is weird. You have the whole Star Wars: A New Hope thing, but you have Disney bringing Avatar (Fox) to Disney World.

We know for a fact Disney wanted Silver Surfer and Galactus, to the point where they said Fox could keep Daredevil (which was about to expire) in exchange for those two characters. Obviously, Fox let the rights lapse and Marvel made Daredevil.

It's a shame, and a stupid decision, if Fox just sits on the Fantastic Four rights and characters if this movie bombs. Who's to say they'll ever give it another go? After three tries, and if this one is a bomb, 20th Century Fox won't greenlight another FF film. Not even six years from now. So keeping those characters away from Marvel for seven years at least is petty and won't do Fox any favors.

If Fox doesn't let Marvel have the FF back outright, they could at least work out some kind of deal with Marvel, the way Sony did. Even if it's just a cut, you'll at least be making money off of a property you have no interest in (or have had no large success with). In that situation, Marvel wins, Fox wins. It's a no brainer. But it seems like greed, with Fox wanting all of the pie instead of just a slice, is what's preventing that from happening.

There's barely any Fantastic Four or X-Men merchandise so as to not "promote" the Fox films. The characters in the comics have had a decreased presence, with other (Marvel owned) characters like the Inhumans getting a push instead of the mutants.

I know Fox wants to do an X-Men TV show, but I believe Marvel has to sign off on that. Maybe that could be used as a bargaining chip in some kind of agreement between the two studios? A "We'll let you do your X-Men show, as many as you want, and cut you in on X-Men movie merchandise, if you give us..." kind of deal.

[Mobe1969]

I wonder if Fox would be better off going small screen/lower budget and just doing series or miniseries with these franchises. I really think a "more authentic" FF TV series would be great. Give it time to build, show the great character dynamic and relationships.

[Underworld54]

Originally Posted by spiderfan1985

Did Fox lift the embargo on reviews? I'll still go see it and decide for myself, but dang.

Fox broke it when they used review snippets in a tv spot.

[spiderfan1985]

Originally Posted by Underworld54

Fox broke it when they used review snippets in a tv spot.

Ouch. I guess they used the one good review?

[Walts Ghost]

Originally Posted by Darkstream

Maybe I'm just seeing things too diplomatically here, but I can't see how Fox would not benefit from Marvel's support. Unlike Marvel's relationship with Sony, Marvel and Fox got into a bad way and now Marvel won't sign off on any licensing deals for the X-Men and FF characters Fox holds the rights to. That's why there are no X-Men or FF Happy Meals or action figures or art-of-the-movie books for these films. I'm sure it's not as easy as this, but if only Fox would make arrangements with Marvel to give the FF and related characters back to Marvel, then in return Fox can keep X-Men and get Marvel's support with X-Men promotions and merchandising.

The problem is, Marvel tried to play ball with Fox a few years ago, and Fox basically spit in their face. Since then, relationships between Fox and Ike, one of Marvel's top brass, have been heated. Underneath it though, Feige and Lauren Schuler Donner both have a great relationship and have wanted to try to mend between the feuding parties. Marvel even tried to give Fox a deal to keep DareDevil another year, in return for Silver Surfer and Galactus, and Fox said no. It's a tough situation on both sides, but Fox may have to drop the gruff act that they've put on, and Marvel needs to quit going on the attack, and the two need to reach an agreement for this property. Fox doesn't need Fantastic Four, and it would be better off with Marvel, but let them keep X-Men, because they're doing great things with it. That's the best solution for everyone.

[DisneyBlu]

Originally Posted by GC Riot

That almost seems like blackmail. Bad Marvel!

It's not blackmail. Marvel just isn't using characters they don't own the screen rights to. Fantastic Four got cancelled (low sales). An artist mentioned that he received an official statement from Marvel that some trading cards weren't to depict X-Men or Fantastic Four. The Inhumans (Marvel Studios will be making that movie) have been receiving a push, where in the past they would have used mutants/X-Men characters.

They haven't completely dropped those characters in the comics - there's still X-Men comics, the Fantastic Four characters are still around. The X-Men are successful comics wise, so Marvel wouldn't cut those funds completely just to spite Fox.

But Marvel has been favoring the characters they hold the screen rights to. I think the only merchandise put out for Days of Future Past was a set of minimates and a Mystique action figure. Marvel could profit off of X-Men merchandise in sync with movies, but they must feel that would provide advertising for Fox and thus contribute to their box office, so they put out little to none Fantastic Four and X-Men merchandise.

[thunderforce]

The FF can only work properly in the MCU . That is the only place that it can become the blockbuster that is should be . I just wish Fox would realize that , maybe they will once Marvel shows them what is possible with Spiderman .

[DisneyBlu]

Originally Posted by Walts Ghost

The problem is, Marvel tried to play ball with Fox a few years ago, and Fox basically spit in their face. Since then, relationships between Fox and Ike, one of Marvel's top brass, have been heated. Underneath it though, Feige and Lauren Schuler Donner both have a great relationship and have wanted to try to mend between the feuding parties. Marvel even tried to give Fox a deal to keep DareDevil another year, in return for Silver Surfer and Galactus, and Fox said no. It's a tough situation on both sides, but Fox may have to drop the gruff act that they've put on, and Marvel needs to quit going on the attack, and the two need to reach an agreement for this property. Fox doesn't need Fantastic Four, and it would be better off with Marvel, but let them keep X-Men, because they're doing great things with it. That's the best solution for everyone.

Fox should keep X-Men. They do a mostly good job with them, and the X-Men work best in their own, separated universe. Trying to shove them into the MCU would be convoluted and wouldn't work, and they're best existing in a world where the only superpowered beings are mutants.

But Fox doesn't have a handle on Fantastic Four. As great as it would be to see Hulk fight Thing or to have the Avengers take on Doom or Galactus, I want Marvel to make the movies because I have reason to believe they'd finally get them right.

Fantastic Four won't make as much as The Amazing Spider-Man 2 did, and Sony threw in the towel after that movie and cut a deal with Marvel. Maybe the same will happen here. That's the ideal situation. Marvel wins, Fox wins, the fans who wanted Fantastic Four in the MCU win.

[GC Riot]

Originally Posted by DisneyBlu

It's not blackmail. Marvel just isn't using characters they don't own the screen rights to. Fantastic Four got cancelled (low sales). An artist mentioned that he received an official statement from Marvel that some trading cards weren't to depict X-Men or Fantastic Four. The Inhumans (Marvel Studios will be making that movie) have been receiving a push, where in the past they would have used mutants/X-Men characters.

They haven't completely dropped those characters in the comics - there's still X-Men comics, the Fantastic Four characters are still around. The X-Men are successful comics wise, so Marvel wouldn't cut those funds completely just to spite Fox.

But Marvel has been favoring the characters they hold the screen rights to. I think the only merchandise put out for Days of Future Past was a set of minimates and a Mystique action figure. Marvel could profit off of X-Men merchandise in sync with movies, but they must feel that would provide advertising for Fox and thus contribute to their box office, so they put out little to none Fantastic Four and X-Men merchandise.

This whole situation just feels like two little kids having a feud in a sandbox, fighting over a toy. If Fox's output held the standard that the Singer X-Men films did, then both parties would benefit from the merchandising etc.

Fox did get the license fair and square back in the day, and they choosing to hold on to it, I don't really have a problem with. Disney/Marvel punishing them for it I mostly just view as dirty business tactics.

[Mandalorian]

Well, I'm still checking this out on opening day, and hoping to enjoy it. If I enjoy it, and Fox still relinquishes the rights, then so be it. I want X-Men to stay with Fox as long as they keep churning out quality films. FF, I wasn't all that impressed with the previous ones to begin with, and I only had neutral hopes for this.

[GC Riot]

Originally Posted by DisneyBlu

Fox should keep X-Men. They do a mostly good job with them, and the X-Men work best in their own, separated universe. Trying to shove them into the MCU would be convoluted and wouldn't work, and they're best existing in a world where the only superpowered beings are mutants.

I'm not too familiar with the Marvel comics, but I've always found it strange how they're represented and perceived so differently in the films.
The Marvel Avengers and Spider-Man are celebrated by the populous as saviours and more or less worshipped as gods, while the X-Men are basically a metaphor for racism as the world as a whole are terrified of their powers. I just never saw how those two very conflicting views could exist in the same world, but like I said, I'm not familiar with the comics...

[Moviefan2k4]

Originally Posted by GC Riot

I'm not too familiar with the Marvel comics, but I've always found it strange how they're represented and perceived so differently in the films.
The Marvel Avengers and Spider-Man are celebrated by the populous as saviours and more or less worshipped as gods, while the X-Men are basically a metaphor for racism as the world as a whole are terrified of their powers. I just never saw how those two very conflicting views could exist in the same world, but like I said, I'm not familiar with the comics...

I only read them broadly, and the public's fear of mutants seemed to have two main factors: the potential for danger, and not knowing how to tell them apart. Its the same basic premise as the meteor freaks on "Smallville", with fear driven by the unknown. Plus, let's be honest here; how many of us would feel safe around someone capable of controlling our minds, killing with a simple touch, or housing razor-sharp metal blades in his arms?

[Underworld54]

Originally Posted by spiderfan1985

Ouch. I guess they used the one good review?

They used two, one was CBS Radio lol.

[DisneyBlu]

Originally Posted by GC Riot

I'm not too familiar with the Marvel comics, but I've always found it strange how they're represented and perceived so differently in the films.
The Marvel Avengers and Spider-Man are celebrated by the populous as saviours and more or less worshipped as gods, while the X-Men are basically a metaphor for racism as the world as a whole are terrified of their powers. I just never saw how those two very conflicting views could exist in the same world, but like I said, I'm not familiar with the comics...

Yeah, it's always been weird. The Fantastic Four are celebrated, they're very public and the world knows how they received their powers. Same with Captain America. But with mutants, they get hatred and fear because they're born with their powers.

Some comics tried to explain it away with "mutants are evolved humans, they're the next step of evolution," and play up the "your child could be born a mutant, they could be in your schools, they could be your neighbors" thing in that mutants are people who are just born with powers. It's pretty weak, because the end result is the same: who cares why or how Captain America or Thor or Cyclops or Storm have powers, they're all still superpowered individuals.

That's why I think they're best on their own. They work best in their own world where mutants can be hated and feared without that hypocrisy of celebrating other superpowered people like Cap or the Fantastic Four. Mutants wouldn't be all that scary if you lived in a world where an elf from a dark dimension tried to destroy the universe or where you knew dangerous alien beings came down with an army or where a big green guy who is super strong runs around fighting robots.

People would fear and hate mutants a lot more if they live in a world where certain types of people are born with incredible, powerful, and dangerous abilities.

Even if Marvel magically got the X-Men rights, I'd prefer if Marvel had two universes: the MCU, and the XMCU, where they made X-Men movies in their own universe. For the movies, they work best in their own world with only mutants and humans.