Fantastic Four (2015)

[Dalekbuster523Bluray]

Originally Posted by Det. Bullock

Well, now we can make a spiderman movie where everyday cars go without wheels by that logic.
We have ****ing spaceships since the goddamn 50s, they are an everyday thing, one thing is a spaceship with a warp drive, another is a spaceship that lacks basic life support that's there since the dawn of the Space Age, and personally I'm tired of people like you who treat everyday stuff that happens a bit out-of-view like a fantasy trope that can be butchered however we like.
And, please, explain to me why turning Hulk from a "gamma monster" into a failed super-soldier serum experiment is fine but changing the F4 origin to a failed teleport accident isn't.

Well, the former ties into the MCU more than the Hulk's original origin, whereas there's no reason to change Fantastic Four's origin. The negative zone origin is pure nonsense; if you're going to do Fantastic Four, then you should stick to the original origin in my opinion. It's hardly like their powers are in any way realistic anyway.

[Det. Bullock]

Originally Posted by Dalekbuster523Bluray

Well, the former ties into the MCU more than the Hulk's original origin, whereas there's no reason to change Fantastic Four's origin. The negative zone origin is pure nonsense; if you're going to do Fantastic Four, then you should stick to the original origin in my opinion. It's hardly like their powers are in any way realistic anyway.

Not even Spiderman's powers are "realistic" but I doubt the writers would get away with showing his New York with armies of flying cars without a sensible in-story reason.
And it's not that the space mission origin isn't salvageable with a few changes (see my post in the other topic), but leaving it unchanged would be completely idiotic.
The Hulk's MCU origin is still completely different from that in the comics, hell, it's basically the Ultimate Hulk origin story, just like the teleporter is the Ultimate origin of the Fantastic 4.

[GC Riot]

Originally Posted by Infernal King

It's a waste of time to debate this guy, as evidenced by his post history here and in the Ghostbusters thread.

Love your signature!

[Forever Knight]

This Doom wasnt too bad. Reminded me of the Doom from the animated series with his echoed voice. Im going to be honest here and say this movie is not as bad as everyone says, its dark, I like that. Ive seen worse superhero films than this.

[thunderforce]

Originally Posted by Dalekbuster523Bluray

Well, the former ties into the MCU more than the Hulk's original origin, whereas there's no reason to change Fantastic Four's origin. The negative zone origin is pure nonsense; if you're going to do Fantastic Four, then you should stick to the original origin in my opinion. It's hardly like their powers are in any way realistic anyway.

I have no problem with the negative zone origin and I bet if marvel gets the rights back that they go with that . I mean come on a space ship gets hit by cosmic rays and changes them , if that is the case then half the population of the cosmic races in the MCU would all be super powered beings and that will not work . It has to be a little less common that cosmic rays .

[Funcha]

Originally Posted by L.J.

Haven't seen the movie wanted to post that I tried Denny's Thing burger. Its good and you won't be hungry afterwards.

I had one too and the next morning felt like Annihilus attacked my bowels!

[Dalekbuster523Bluray]

Originally Posted by Det. Bullock

Not even Spiderman's powers are "realistic" but I doubt the writers would get away with showing his New York with armies of flying cars without a sensible in-story reason.
And it's not that the space mission origin isn't salvageable with a few changes (see my post in the other topic), but leaving it unchanged would be completely idiotic.
The Hulk's MCU origin is still completely different from that in the comics, hell, it's basically the Ultimate Hulk origin story, just like the teleporter is the Ultimate origin of the Fantastic 4.

I don't think it would be idiotic. I think it would be the only sensible option. Everybody makes mistakes and even Reed Richards has done in the past. Besides, no cosmic rays shield could be because Reed planned it all along as was hinted at in the 60s comics.

Originally Posted by thunderforce

I have no problem with the negative zone origin and I bet if marvel gets the rights back that they go with that . I mean come on a space ship gets hit by cosmic rays and changes them , if that is the case then half the population of the cosmic races in the MCU would all be super powered beings and that will not work . It has to be a little less common that cosmic rays .

I hope Marvel don't do that origin if they get the rights back. They need to use the true origin otherwise it's not Fantastic Four.

[Det. Bullock]

Originally Posted by Dalekbuster523Bluray

I don't think it would be idiotic. I think it would be the only sensible option. Everybody makes mistakes and even Reed Richards has done in the past. Besides, no cosmic rays shield could be because Reed planned it all along as was hinted at in the 60s comics.

Building a spaceship without shielding is not a mistake, it's like building a car without wheels.
It would be enough to change the reason from "cosmic rays" to "experimental exotic never-tried-before engine explodes" and it would already make much more sense.
And it was stupid even for the time, at the time engineers tended to overestimate the radiation and so overdid it a bit with radiation shielding.

[CelestialAgent]

Originally Posted by Det. Bullock

And, please, explain to me why turning Hulk from a "gamma monster" into a failed super-soldier serum experiment is fine but changing the F4 origin to a failed teleport accident isn't.

It's definitely better than private space mission funded by Doom as we saw in the Tim Story film.

The point of the changed origin is for it to reflect contemporary science, but still exploration. We're exploring alternative dimensions through quantam particles with Hadron Colliders and multiversal theories, but exploring space through stuff like Curiosity. The graphic novel Fantastic Four: Season One positioned it as space tourism, which whilst a thing in development isn't going as perfectly as it could. Alternative dimensions are a great unknown. In 1961, space was a great unknown too; barring Laika and a few other things, there was not the level of information we have today around. There were no HD photographs of Pluto.

We could put them on the International Space Station. Or send them to Mars. But the original origin from the era of the Space Race just isn't going to cut it in 2015.

What the 2015 film should have done is completely changed Planet X and made it chaotic. The 1960s comics relied on bright abstract colours and photomontages to bring it to life; it needed some of that rather than a barren world that could easily have been in our own galaxy.

The radioactive spider isn't ridiculous either. The 2002 film was like the comic and didn't give it much attention. But the 2012 film talked about genetic modification and stuff, which is far from ridiculous with the genetic modification that is actually going on. Sure, the transference of power is somewhat ridiculous, but then so the fact cosmic rays don't kill, but distribute mutations across the passengers of a vessel which show no consistency. This was a theme explored in JMS' brief run on the book - why the mutations weren't the same.

[Dalekbuster523Bluray]

Originally Posted by Det. Bullock

Building a spaceship without shielding is not a mistake, it's like building a car without wheels.
It would be enough to change the reason from "cosmic rays" to "experimental exotic never-tried-before engine explodes" and it would already make much more sense.
And it was stupid even for the time, at the time engineers tended to overestimate the radiation and so overdid it a bit with radiation shielding.

But as I said: Reed could have deliberately made sure there was no shield for his plan to create the Fantastic Four through the cosmic rays (as was hinted in the 60s comics).

[Det. Bullock]

Originally Posted by Dalekbuster523Bluray

But as I said: Reed could have deliberately made sure there was no shield for his plan to create the Fantastic Four through the cosmic rays (as was hinted in the 60s comics).

And as I said countless time before that would turn him into an unsympathetic *******, our hero, Ladies and Gentlemen!
Next, the great Doctor Doom is gonna be the good guy and the Fantastic Four are the real villains!
You are not even a fan, you are just a contrarian for the sake of it, you don't even consider the implications of certain thing beyond a very superficial level.

And no, it wasn't hinted in the original comics, I read them and the only thing they hint at is Stan Lee's ignorance when it comes to the space race everyone at the time was talking about in newspapers and magazines.

[Falaskan]

So is fox still being dumb and moving forward with a sequel?

[GC Riot]

Originally Posted by Falaskan

So is fox still being dumb and moving forward with a sequel?

Until after it's been released on home video for 2-3 weeks I bet they are...

[mwynn]

Originally Posted by Det. Bullock

And as I said countless time before that would turn him into an unsympathetic *******, our hero, Ladies and Gentlemen!
Next, the great Doctor Doom is gonna be the good guy and the Fantastic Four are the real villains!
You are not even a fan, you are just a contrarian for the sake of it, you don't even consider the implications of certain thing beyond a very superficial level.

And no, it wasn't hinted in the original comics, I read them and the only thing they hint at is Stan Lee's ignorance when it comes to the space race everyone at the time was talking about in newspapers and magazines.

This was one of the plot points in Fantastic Four vs X-men. It was written in the journal that Franklin was afraid of. It stated that Reed wanted them to get powers, he took them into the cosmic rays on purpose. Ben, She-Hulk, and Johnny then quit the team.

[Det. Bullock]

Originally Posted by mwynn

This was one of the plot points in Fantastic Four vs X-men. It was written in the journal that Franklin was afraid of. It stated that Reed wanted them to get powers, he took them into the cosmic rays on purpose. Ben, She-Hulk, and Johnny then quit the team.

In fact it's gratuitous and serves only to make Reed the villain, I never understood this tendency to make him a villain and at the same time give a "draco in leather pants" treatment to Doctor Doom.

EDIT

Note: I was talking about the original Kirby/Lee story, I was aware that some later writer did it only didn't know exactly when.

[motorheadache95]

Originally Posted by Falaskan

So is fox still being dumb and moving forward with a sequel?

That would be incredibly stupid. Even if they focused on doing a 180 and making a really good movie, it was still be the sequel to this and probably not do too well at the box office. Kind of like to a lesser extent how Sony tried really hard to make Amazing Spider-Man 2 a wildly different film from the first but it didn't really matter because people were just not that enthused about it (that and it still wasn't that good).

Just make a deal, Fox. Nobody wants to see a sequel to this. And I'd sure like to see characters like Dr. Doom and Galactus enter the MCU at some point down the line.

[spectre08]

If they can do a sequel for $100m they absolutely should. Their only other options are to sell it back to Marvel, assuming Marvel wants to buy it, or let it sit on a shelf for another 7 years and then start over again.

[Elandyll]

On top of being a likely waste of money, no Director or Actor worth anything will want to touch this franchise now. Not with Fox, and not for a long time.

Both Fox and Marvel would benefit from a deal having the FF returning to Marvel, so I'd be surprised if it didn't happen in a few months/ years from now (I think the first deadline for pre prod is in about 3 years).

Right now it's about saving face and protecting what can be for the video release imo.

[Dalekbuster523Bluray]

Originally Posted by Det. Bullock

And as I said countless time before that would turn him into an unsympathetic *******, our hero, Ladies and Gentlemen!
Next, the great Doctor Doom is gonna be the good guy and the Fantastic Four are the real villains!
You are not even a fan, you are just a contrarian for the sake of it, you don't even consider the implications of certain thing beyond a very superficial level.

And no, it wasn't hinted in the original comics, I read them and the only thing they hint at is Stan Lee's ignorance when it comes to the space race everyone at the time was talking about in newspapers and magazines.

Actually, yes: it was hinted at in the original comics. I've borrowed them from the library and read them. But go ahead: call me a liar even though it's right there in print.

[mwynn]

Originally Posted by Dalekbuster523Bluray

Actually, yes: it was hinted at in the original comics. I've borrowed them from the library and read them. But go ahead: call me a liar even though it's right there in print.

Are you talking about when Reed and Sue fought Gormuu?

The space mission can still work, if Reed either miscalculated the amount of radiation. Or the Van Allen Belts doubled or tripled the level of radiation. Or there is intervention by the Kree.