Man With The Movie Camera

[Hintermann]

Eureka have announced that they will be releasing Dziga Vertov's famous 1929 silent documentary A Man With A Movie Camera but I was under the impression that BFI have already released it. Is there a difference?

[rezpekt]

The new restoration (that's on American and French releases) is exclusive to Eureka. BFI release uses a transfer from their own archival materials.

[rapta]

It will also be a 'deluxe special edition' apparently, containing many of Vertov's 'other works'. My guess is something akin to The Passion of Joan of Arc, in that the suggestion of it being deluxe might mean it comes with special packaging. So yeah, this is going to be a different enough release from the BFI one, but by the sounds of it both are worth owning (depending on how much you like the film). Personally, I'm going for the MoC edition first. They said it'll be released 'very soon', so I wonder if it'll be before or after Christmas/New Year...my guess was that it'd be spine #130, but I could be wrong.

The opposite is happening with with The Birth of a Nation, where the BFI are releasing a more substantial edition than the previous MoC release. In that case though, I passed on the MoC edition even when it was £4.99 but will go for it if on sale again...a film I would like to see, but not necessarily shell out a great deal for it. I'm more interested to see what their Nosferatu disc will be like instead.

[Ozu Teapot]

Originally Posted by Hintermann

Eureka have announced that they will be releasing Dziga Vertov's famous 1929 silent documentary A Man With A Movie Camera but I was under the impression that BFI have already released it. Is there a difference?

Yes. The BFI's is from an older restoration while Eureka!/MoC's is from a newer 4K restoration. I expect there will be differences in supplements too of course, but I don't know what those are.

[MichaelB]

The BFI disc isn't from a restoration at all - it's a recent 2K scan of their archive print.

[tenia]

Originally Posted by rapta

It will also be a 'deluxe special edition' apparently, containing many of Vertov's 'other works'. My guess is something akin to The Passion of Joan of Arc, in that the suggestion of it being deluxe might mean it comes with special packaging. Personally, I'm going for the MoC edition first. They said it'll be released 'very soon', so I wonder if it'll be before or after Christmas/New Year...my guess was that it'd be spine #130, but I could be wrong.

From what I've understood, the Vertov should be a December release like A Touch of Zen, and should be deluxe/ultimate also in terms of content.
I'm not sure what it will contain exactly, but it seems like it would include some Vertov work which is not included yet neither in the BFI nor the FA/Lobster set.

The ambition seems to put both sets to shame but it's not usual that MoC's releases unfortunately turns out to be lighter than expected in terms of content (see Medium Cool recently for instance).

In terms of packaging, I know some steelbooks are to be expected, maybe for this one ? Except Metropolis, it's been quite some time since the last steelie release.

[rapta]

Originally Posted by tenia

From what I've understood, the Vertov should be a December release like A Touch of Zen, and should be deluxe/ultimate also in terms of content.
I'm not sure what it will contain exactly, but it seems like it would include some Vertov work which is not included yet neither in the BFI nor the FA/Lobster set.

The ambition seems to put both sets to shame but it's not usual that MoC's releases unfortunately turns out to be lighter than expected in terms of content (see Medium Cool recently for instance).

In terms of packaging, I know some steelbooks are to be expected, maybe for this one ? Except Metropolis, it's been quite some time since the last steelie release.

Of course I'd love both to come out as soon as December, and whilst Eureka's own 'very soon' comment implies it'll be out as soon as that, I somewhat doubt A Touch of Zen will be out around the same time. Unless they want to skip doing a theatrical run of A Touch of Zen, I reckon we won't see that 'til sometime in the new year.

Medium Cool is crammed with as much as they could put on there! It has basically everything that wasn't already produced by Criterion, with a new featurette that's not included...so I'd say it's as complete as it could have been without sacrificing the strong bitrate (and appearance) of the main presentation.

And yes, I'd love a steelbook for this one. In fact, a repeat of The Passion of Joan of Arc steelbook would be ideal for a title like this, but I'd be happy with just a standalone steelbook too. Of course, you'd have to consider that some people don't like steelbooks though and release an Amaray edition alongside it...so it does seem less likely, especially considering we haven't had a steelbook for a new MoC title since Serpico (as you already mentioned Metropolis, but that was technically a reissue).

[tenia]

Originally Posted by rapta

Of course I'd love both to come out as soon as December, and whilst Eureka's own 'very soon' comment implies it'll be out as soon as that, I somewhat doubt A Touch of Zen will be out around the same time.

Here's what Kevin told me a few weeks ago for our interview for Retro HD :

The releases I’m most excited about before the end of the year are A Touch of Zen and Dragon Inn, they're going to be very very special if everything comes together.

That's what leads me to believe this will be a December release, but it could have been delayed in the meantime.

Originally Posted by rapta

Medium Cool is crammed with as much as they could put on there! It has basically everything that wasn't already produced by Criterion, with a new featurette that's not included...so I'd say it's as complete as it could have been without sacrificing the strong bitrate (and appearance) of the main presentation.

A few weeks back, they talked about having hours and hours of extra material to be included, especially the 6-hours documentary on Wexler.
Kevin explicitly wrote it was "Not as much as I had hoped for".

The same also happenned with Satyricon, which was supposed to have tons of extras features, but only got the dub.

Don't get me wrong, I do not wish to be a party-pooper. It just seems that it happens explicitly that some MoC's releases don't get the extras expected to be included, in opposite to say Arrow or Criterion. Maybe it's a question of announcing (even loosely) them too early, I don't know.

[IanSchultz23]

Originally Posted by tenia

A few weeks back, they talked about having hours and hours of extra material to be included, especially the 6-hours documentary on Wexler.
Kevin explicitly wrote it was "Not as much as I had hoped for".

I think he meant he wanted to include the 6 doc but for space and maybe licensing reasons they could only include the edited 54 minute version.

[rapta]

Originally Posted by tenia

Here's what Kevin told me a few weeks ago for our interview for Retro HD :



That's what leads me to believe this will be a December release, but it could have been delayed in the meantime.



A few weeks back, they talked about having hours and hours of extra material to be included, especially the 6-hours documentary on Wexler.
Kevin explicitly wrote it was "Not as much as I had hoped for".

The same also happenned with Satyricon, which was supposed to have tons of extras features, but only got the dub.

Don't get me wrong, I do not wish to be a party-pooper. It just seems that it happens explicitly that some MoC's releases don't get the extras expected to be included, in opposite to say Arrow or Criterion. Maybe it's a question of announcing (even loosely) them too early, I don't know.

That's good to know about A Touch Of Zen! Maybe it'll be #128 then, and Man with a Movie Camera is perhaps #130?

Yeah I mean they did talk about a tonne of extras but you couldn't feasibly add a 6-hour documentary on a single 50GB disc along with the main feature and other extras. They just had to trim things down, and squeeze something new on there. Three of the extras on the Criterion disc are exclusive to them, so would cost a bomb for Eureka to try and get hold of them (if Criterion even allowed them). So yeah, I think they did the best they could considering. Sure I would've liked it to be 2xBD or something, but I doubt they would've gambled on this particular title.

As for 'announcing' extras, I believe they didn't confirm any extras officially, so the talk of 'tonnes of extras' was just comments from Kevin on these forums and nothing more. So maybe those comments got some people's hopes up, but I still think it's a blinding release and one of the best MoC titles this year!

[Hintermann]

Originally Posted by Ozu Teapot

Yes. The BFI's is from an older restoration while Eureka!/MoC's is from a newer 4K restoration. I expect there will be differences in supplements too of course, but I don't know what those are.

Michael B - The BFI disc isn't from a restoration at all - it's a recent 2K scan of their archive print.

Thanks. Does that mean that the PQ of the new Eureka release will be significantly better than the BFI release? What is the BFI version like anyway?

[Yami]

Originally Posted by Hintermann

Thanks. Does that mean that the PQ of the new Eureka release will be significantly better than the BFI release? What is the BFI version like anyway?

The Eureka release will use the same source as the Flicker Alley, which is compared to the BFI here.

[MichaelB]

Originally Posted by Hintermann

Thanks. Does that mean that the PQ of the new Eureka release will be significantly better than the BFI release? What is the BFI version like anyway?

I watched it before the fuss about the restoration blew up, and I thought it was excellent - I grew up watching 35mm prints, and so the occasional blemish in an 86-year-old film doesn't bother me one iota. Basically, it's a very good transfer of an archival print, and the extras are likely to remain unique to the BFI edition (especially the version of Three Songs of Lenin with the recently rediscovered W.H. Auden translation).

[Hintermann]

Originally Posted by Yami

The Eureka release will use the same source as the Flicker Alley, which is compared to the BFI here.

OK thanks, that settles it for me. Like Michael B, I don't mind a few artefacts in very old films since they add to the character but in this case the complex, superimposed imagery appears to show far less detail in the BFI disc screenshots compared with Flicker Alley. If Eureka are using the FA transfer, then I'll wait for it. I don't mind if they preserve the rounded corners because that adds to the nostalgia feel.

[EddieLarkin]

When looking at the BFI in isolation there's no denying it looks very nice, but the fact remains the new restoration is vastly superior to it. Perhaps most importantly it is no longer heavily cropped. In the end, the U.K. got a great deal: we get the new Lobster restorations from a company who actually know why compression and QC are important, meaning we won't have to suffer the offensive blockiness of the US and FR releases, and we get a few very nice exclusives from a separate, reasonably priced BFI disc.

[Hintermann]

I like watching such 'plotless' films from the silent era. I have the similarly themed (but without the stylised camera work) People On Sunday by the Sidomak brothers. The Criterion BD is worth a buy.

[tenia]

Originally Posted by rapta

Yeah I mean they did talk about a tonne of extras but you couldn't feasibly add a 6-hour documentary on a single 50GB disc along with the main feature and other extras. They just had to trim things down, and squeeze something new on there. Sure I would've liked it to be 2xBD or something, but I doubt they would've gambled on this particular title.

It seemed to me to only be a licencing issue, but yeah, they would either have thad to do a 2nd BD, or place it in SD on the BD.

[Yami]

It's worth noting that the 6 hour cut of the Medium Cool documentary is available for free online legally.

[oddbox83]

Originally Posted by EddieLarkin

When looking at the BFI in isolation there's no denying it looks very nice, but the fact remains the new restoration is vastly superior to it. Perhaps most importantly it is no longer heavily cropped. In the end, the U.K. got a great deal: we get the new Lobster restorations from a company who actually know why compression and QC are important, meaning we won't have to suffer the offensive blockiness of the US and FR releases, and we get a few very nice exclusives from a separate, reasonably priced BFI disc.

It probably won't be too difficult either to pick up both the MoC and BFI versions for the same price or cheaper than it would cost to import the Flicker Alley edition.

[CelestialAgent]

Great to hear I can avoid the BFI release. I was considering importing the Flicker Alley release.