Official Film Noir on Blu-ray Thread

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by JoeBuck

When I was at TCM a couple years back they did a noir panel with a couple of critics famous for their noir writings and they listed the Big Lebowski as modern day noir as well. Mainly to do with the search leading to various shady characters and situations around LA, almost like an influence/homage to them, so its not much of a stretch or just some internet thing.

The trouble is that the term has become so far removed from its origins and now is so loosely defined and delineated, many alleged experts haven't a clue to what constitutes a genuine entry in the canon. It's not just Internet banter, the festivals programmed by the self-appointed "Czar of Noir," Eddie Mueller, have have had more than their share of fake Noir over the years and that's supposed to be setting the leading example of recognition for the genre.

I do appreciate that efforts are made now to embrace and restore the classic films and introduce them to new audiences, but the trendiness of it all takes away from what it once represented. If your only exposure to a film like OUT OF THE PAST now is when it accompanies a Noir party and everyone dresses in trench coats and fedoras, which has happened, it seems to me you're pretty far removed from seeing the film as it was meant to be seen.

But lest I be seen as too much of a curmudgeon, I will allow that there are still good Noir films being made that actually have substance and not just style, and maybe there is a good case to be made for LEBOWSKI, but there are far more examples being cited as Noir these days than there are those which genuinely deserve it.

EDIT TO ADD: Too late to be seen as anything BUT a curmudgeon!

[Page14]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

I just finished watching my DVD of Night Moves (1975), a neo-noir that starred Gene Hackman.

I had been hoping for a long while that this movie would be released on Blu-ray, but I finally took one for the team this past month and ordered the DVD for a couple of dollars from a third-party Amazon dealer.

There are quite a few references to classic-era film noir movies, most notably a particular "MacGuffin" that is discovered late in the story. Gene Hackman himself is a blast to watch here, and this ranks up there with The Conversation as one of my favorite movies of his.

Gene Hackman is so good in just about every movie he's in. If the movie doesn't work, it usually isn't because of him.

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by Page14

Gene Hackman is so good in just about every movie he's in. If the movie doesn't work, it usually isn't because of him.

Speaking of Hackman, where is Robert Benton's outstanding neo-noir TWILIGHT, with the powerhouse cast of Paul Newman, Hackman, Susan Sarandon and James Garner? The DVD was full frame!

[jetthead]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

Speaking of Hackman, where is Robert Benton's outstanding neo-noir TWILIGHT, with the powerhouse cast of Paul Newman, Hackman, Susan Sarandon and James Garner? The DVD was full frame!

And let's not forget a naked Reese Witherspoon!

[RiFiFi1955]

Originally Posted by jetthead

And let's not forget a naked Reese Witherspoon!

Ain't nobody forgot that hahahaha

[MifuneFan]

Amazon has some good prices on a couple of upcoming noir titles from Kino. Just $15.99 each and releasing on November 17th. Going to pre-order Pitfall after I post this.

[oildude]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

The trouble is that the term has become so far removed from its origins and now is so loosely defined and delineated, many alleged experts haven't a clue to what constitutes a genuine entry in the canon. It's not just Internet banter, the festivals programmed by the self-appointed "Czar of Noir," Eddie Mueller, have have had more than their share of fake Noir over the years and that's supposed to be setting the leading example of recognition for the genre.

I do appreciate that efforts are made now to embrace and restore the classic films and introduce them to new audiences, but the trendiness of it all takes away from what it once represented. If your only exposure to a film like OUT OF THE PAST now is when it accompanies a Noir party and everyone dresses in trench coats and fedoras, which has happened, it seems to me you're pretty far removed from seeing the film as it was meant to be seen.

But lest I be seen as too much of a curmudgeon, I will allow that there are still good Noir films being made that actually have substance and not just style, and maybe there is a good case to be made for LEBOWSKI, but there are far more examples being cited as Noir these days than there are those which genuinely deserve it.

EDIT TO ADD: Too late to be seen as anything BUT a curmudgeon!

I also have a respect for genre definitions and can completely relate to your sympathies. But with all due respect, I disagree with your curmudgeonly attitude toward purity .

If fedora and trench coat parties are what it takes to get new viewers to see films like Out of the Past, then I am ALL for it. That actually sounds like fun. Whatever it takes to grow the fan base. The only way we will get missing noir gems on Blu-ray is if there is a perceived demand for them. Not just big hitters like The Big Sleep that are still missing in action (but no doubt coming), but also the lesser known titles like Shield for Murder or Too Late for Tears.

I think the neo-noir genre is where things get muddled due to boundary crossings, mixing in noir tropes, etc. But it ain't so bad to me if it all drives discussion and leads fans of a film containing noir elements to seek out more examples and dig a little deeper into the past. One way or another we all win if they wind up back in our beloved black and white world where men with big ambitions and too little means wear fedoras and suits daily, women with too much lipstick and too little modesty sit on bars stools waiting for their prey, and everyone smokes.

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by oildude

I also have a respect for genre definitions and can completely relate to your sympathies. But with all due respect, I disagree with your curmudgeonly attitude toward purity .

If fedora and trench coat parties are what it takes to get new viewers to see films like Out of the Past, then I am ALL for it. That actually sounds like fun. Whatever it takes to grow the fan base. The only way we will get missing noir gems on Blu-ray is if there is a perceived demand for them. Not just big hitters like The Big Sleep that are still missing in action (but no doubt coming), but also the lesser known titles like Shield for Murder or Too Late for Tears.

I think the neo-noir genre is where things get muddled due to boundary crossings, mixing in noir tropes, etc. But it ain't so bad to me if it all drives discussion and leads fans of a film containing noir elements to seek out more examples and dig a little deeper into the past. One way or another we all win if they wind up back in our beloved black and white world where men with big ambitions and too little means wear fedoras and suits daily, women with too much lipstick and too little modesty sit on bars stools waiting for their prey, and everyone smokes.

We're actually pretty much in agreement on most of this, the get off my lawn tone of my earlier post notwithstanding. I just think I have an inherent issue with people gleefully celebrating the Noir "style" rather than getting mired in its thematic realities, which are anything but joyous. But I'll live and you're certainly right about all this attention perhaps leading to new releases, something that is a win win for those wearing fedoras to cocktail party screenings and those like me cowering in the doomed shadows.

[The Great Owl]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

I do appreciate that efforts are made now to embrace and restore the classic films and introduce them to new audiences, but the trendiness of it all takes away from what it once represented. If your only exposure to a film like OUT OF THE PAST now is when it accompanies a Noir party and everyone dresses in trench coats and fedoras, which has happened, it seems to me you're pretty far removed from seeing the film as it was meant to be seen.

Most of the movies that are now considered film noir classics were initially meant to be seen as "B-movies" that were shown as the second part of double features with higher-budget films that received more recognition. The term, "film noir", was coined after the fact for many of these films.

I catch your drift, though.

It's funny that my own first exposure to Out of the Past took place years ago, when I made a blind buy of the DVD simply because I loved Jacques Tourneur's earlier horror films, Cat People, I Walked with a Zombie, and The Leopard Man, which I had watched after buying the Val Lewton Horror Collection DVD box set. I loved Out of the Past after that first viewing, but I did not initially take to it quite as well as I had taken to the director's horror films. The movie grew on me upon subsequent viewings, but it was only a couple of years ago, when I finally saw that old DVD on a high definition television, that its charms really worked their way to the top of my rankings.

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

Most of the movies that are now considered film noir classics were initially meant to be seen as "B-movies" that were shown as the second part of double features with higher-budget films that received more recognition. The term, "film noir", was coined after the fact for many of these films.

I catch your drift, though.

It's funny that my own first exposure to Out of the Past took place years ago, when I made a blind buy of the DVD simply because I loved Jacques Tourneur's earlier horror films, Cat People, I Walked with a Zombie, and The Leopard Man, which I had watched after buying the Val Lewton Horror Collection DVD box set. I loved Out of the Past after that first viewing, but I did not initially take to it quite as well as I had taken to the director's horror films. The movie grew on me upon subsequent viewings, but it was only a couple of years ago, when I finally saw that old DVD on a high definition television, that its charms really worked their way to the top of my rankings.

This is not quite accurate. A movie like OUT OF THE PAST was NOT a B movie from RKO nor were most of the classic films we now regard as the staples of the genre. B movies were the result of the major studios trying to compete with poverty row films in the 1930's as well as offering up a double feature presentation in their own theaters during the depression, giving patrons more bang for their buck. By the mid-40's this was still in practice, but not to the degree it had been. As such, many Noir titles were indeed released as A films and obviously found enough of an appreciative audience to keep releasing more.

I first saw OUT OF THE PAST in the mid-70's at Chicago's famed Biograph Theater in the world's first Robert Mitchum film festival, curated by Roger Ebert. I was in high school at the time and first recognizing Noir from an article by Paul Schrader in Film Comment. I was astounded to discover this wonderful facet of film study and remain so to this day!

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by stevieray44

I see your point, but he did say most were B-movies, which, when looked at percentage-wise, would be fairly correct. But I don't want this thread to turn into a whole argument here

And like you said, they certainly weren't all B-movies; think of The Big Sleep, 1946. The Bogart-Bacall follow up would have certainly not been a B-film.

A lot of the time, I would imagine it came down to the budget and how well the studio promoted it, which would rely on the studio heads. Even Louis B. Mayer famously said about The Asphalt Jungle, 1950 "That Asphalt Pavement thing is full of nasty, ugly people doing nasty things. I wouldn't walk across the room to see a thing like that."

Sometimes the heads were just more supportive than others; with that came a budget, which in turn brought a marketing campaign and A-list status.

Thank God for Dore Schary who saved MGM from more incessantly dull, over designed, over lit, glossy soap operas about the problems of the privileged upper classes. Mayer can kiss my ass.

[The Great Owl]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

This is not quite accurate. A movie like OUT OF THE PAST was NOT a B movie from RKO nor were most of the classic films we now regard as the staples of the genre. B movies were the result of the major studios trying to compete with poverty row films in the 1930's as well as offering up a double feature presentation in their own theaters during the depression, giving patrons more bang for their buck. By the mid-40's this was still in practice, but not to the degree it had been. As such, many Noir titles were indeed released as A films and obviously found enough of an appreciative audience to keep releasing more.

You're right that the most iconic film noir movies (The Big Sleep, The Third Man, etc.) were not released as second feature B-movies, but a great many film noir movies that are also regarded as "classics" today were released as such (Detour, Crime Wave, etc.). I probably should have written that "many" of the films were released as B-movies, as opposed to "most."

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

You're right that the most iconic film noir movies (The Big Sleep, The Third Man, etc.) were not released as second feature B-movies, but a great many film noir movies that are also regarded as "classics" today were released as such (Detour, Crime Wave, etc.). I probably should have written that "many" of the films were released as B-movies, as opposed to "most."

Nah, you brought up a good point. I tend to be a little too fussy on forums at times. All in all, this remains one of the best threads on the site. Everyone is still relatively polite in this thread and eager to share their passion for the subject. I may get fired up over some stuff, but I try not to be rude. We're all in this thread to have a good time and talk about one of our favorite genres and thankfully the subject yields an unending source of information and entertainment.

[The Great Owl]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

Amazon has some good prices on a couple of upcoming noir titles from Kino. Just $15.99 each and releasing on November 17th. Going to pre-order Pitfall after I post this.

I just pre-ordered all three of these titles. I cannot wait to retire my DVD of Pitfall.

My resolve to own all of the region A playable Blu-rays of movies from the classic era of film noir wins out every time. I have yet to be disappointed by any of these movies. Even the lesser-regarded entries (Secret Beyond the Door, etc.) are still a lot of fun.

[noirjunkie]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

I have yet to be disappointed by any of these movies. Even the lesser-regarded entries (Secret Beyond the Door, etc.) are still a lot of fun.

A Bullet for Joey will probably put this streak at risk.

[DistrictOfMisery]

I finally tracked down a copy of Twilight Time's The Big Heat, I cannot wait to check that one out, next up is a copy of Criterion's The Third Man, I'm taking as much over time as I can at work to make that purchase.

[RiFiFi1955]

Originally Posted by DistrictOfMisery

I finally tracked down a copy of Twilight Time's The Big Heat, I cannot wait to check that one out, next up is a copy of Criterion's The Third Man, I'm taking as much over time as I can at work to make that purchase.

Great snag on The Big Heat! Excellent Film and I am surprised no one but TT has released this. I would have thought MoC would have got to it by now in the UK.

Yeah I need to get a copy of The Third Man now. My Studio Canal Region 1 Disc is faulty and doesn't load, never did I guess but I took three years to put it in the player to find out. I have seen some relative cheap used Criterions The Third Man's around ever since the 4K Region 2 disc dropped so either I could spring for one of those or just import the 4K....OR maybe wait for a stateside release of the 4k transfer(if that ever actually happens).

[oildude]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

I just pre-ordered all three of these titles. I cannot wait to retire my DVD of Pitfall.

My resolve to own all of the region A playable Blu-rays of movies from the classic era of film noir wins out every time. I have yet to be disappointed by any of these movies. Even the lesser-regarded entries (Secret Beyond the Door, etc.) are still a lot of fun.

I pre-ordered the same. Also agree with your statement about owning all the classic era noirs on blu-ray. Funny you chose Secret Beyond the Door for your example of a lesser regarded entry. That was the first choice that popped into my mind. First time I watched it I was just underwhelmed by it. The fact that Fritz Lang directed it made me give it another watch later on but if anything the second time made me regard it even less. Oh, well. Even the greats have a few duds in their body of work.

The film is definitely watchable and in the right mood could be somewhat enjoyable. So many good parts are there in the mix, including cinematography and overall atmosphere. But it is ultimately forgettable due to bad pacing and poor writing, to include some unbelievable plot elements and inexplicable actions on the part of the main female character that just don't work and took me out of the film with several WTF moments. The film is frustrating because a better written script and tighter direction from Lang could have elevated it into something worthy of being remembered.

[AlexHarvey]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

All in all, this remains one of the best threads on the site. Everyone is still relatively polite in this thread and eager to share their passion for the subject. I may get fired up over some stuff, but I try not to be rude. We're all in this thread to have a good time and talk about one of our favorite genres and thankfully the subject yields an unending source of information and entertainment.

I don't post here often but I enjoy and read this thread regularly. I'm 64 years old and I've seen many of these noirs 40 some odd years ago, and so it gives me great pleasure when I read posts that say they purchased a newly released noir on Blu-ray as a blind buy and enjoyed the film. There is a first time viewing for everyone and it's nice to see young people taking an interest in noir.

I still buy lots of Blu-rays and some DVD's and have a large collection of noir
and a larger collection of neo noir. I keep the two separate as my definition of real noir is quite narrow.

As Professor Echo stated this thread is an unending source of information and entertainment.

[HD Canuck]

Surprised this isn't on the list...