Oh noes teh sky is falling!

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by gates70

Hate to break it to you guys, but it's far from only kids that do this. I work in the informatics world and most guys I know, except me, download their movies for free from torrent sites. They couldn't be bothered to pay for them as they only want to see it once. The problem is that they are easily accessible.

And since these are people that see movies as disposable entertainment, and only want to see them once, they would never buy the blu-rays, even if the torrents/downloads weren't available. At best, they might end up getting converted to Redbox/Netflix rentals if there are no other possible means of acquiring the films. At best. But that isn't a reality because there will always be ways of finding movies for free, even if it just means finding a friend who is willing to loan you the movies you want to see, or finding a local library (my local libraries have a pretty nice selection of blu-rays, and even take requests). These aren't the people that will ever be buying and collecting blu-rays. Some people see the value in buying films, and some aren't interested in owning. Since there are no video rental stores any longer, people find their stuff online now. It's that simple. Back when I used to rent DVDs, there were always people in the stores, especially on the weekends, when it would get pretty busy. So people were certainly willing to spend $10-$20 to rent a few films for the weekend. But that avenue is long gone, so now people go online for their rentals. Many just don't see the difference between streaming from Netflix and downloading or torrenting. To them it's just a means to see the film.

[eiknarf]

Originally Posted by mar3o

And since these are people that see movies as disposable entertainment, and only want to see them once, they would never buy the blu-rays, even if the torrents/downloads weren't available. At best, they might end up getting converted to Redbox/Netflix rentals if there are no other possible means of acquiring the films. At best. But that isn't a reality because there will always be ways of finding movies for free, even if it just means finding a friend who is willing to loan you the movies you want to see, or finding a local library (my local libraries have a pretty nice selection of blu-rays, and even take requests). These aren't the people that will ever be buying and collecting blu-rays. Some people see the value in buying films, and some aren't interested in owning. Since there are no video rental stores any longer, people find their stuff online now. It's that simple. Back when I used to rent DVDs, there were always people in the stores, especially on the weekends, when it would get pretty busy. So people were certainly willing to spend $10-$20 to rent a few films for the weekend. But that avenue is long gone, so now people go online for their rentals. Many just don't see the difference between streaming from Netflix and downloading or tormenting. To them it's just a means to see the film.

True.
Those were never "Hollywood's" demographic to begin with. They don't see this sort of entertainment the way we do.
All of us here can bit torrent if we wanted, but we don't.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by mar3o

This continues to be a silly argument.

Everyone knows why some films/tv shows make it to blu-ray and some don't. The powers that be decide that a certain film won't sell enough copies to justify the release (sometimes they're right, sometimes they're wrong), so it's not released to disc. There are tons of films being remastered and sold to tv stations for HD broadcast, but not released to disc. What do you think people are watching these remastered HD cable broadcasts on - their phones?

The only thing I can see coming perhaps is sites charging a little bit more for a higher quality 1080p/4k download - like charge whatever price for a low-bitrate 720p download and charge a tiny bit more for a high-bitrate 1080p/4k file. They do that with music on some sites - pay whatever price for .mp3, or a fraction more for lossless .flac.

But this has nothing to do with the death of television. Millions of people sit down every night after work and watch tv. Millions of people rent from Redbox or Netflix. These people aren't going to stare at their phones all evening after a hard day at work, many of whom have been already staring at their phones half the day as a part of their work.

Ok, I will accelerate my argument. As soon as you give a cheaper option for rentals, that will be the dominant factor. The more Expensive tv ready option will have its price drove up and availability may be an issue. Bluray is restricted by studios whims, unlike DVD which seems to get every release going. I can see the same for a pay by size scenario. Smartphone copies will be the future DVD if you will.

[Errol Riddick]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

[Show spoiler]Ok, I will accelerate my argument. As soon as you give a cheaper option for rentals, that will be the dominant factor. The more Expensive tv ready option will have its price drove up and availability may be an issue. Bluray is restricted by studios whims, unlike DVD which seems to get every release going. I can see the same for a pay by size scenario. Smartphone copies will be the future DVD if you will.

Images related for all your posts ITT. Especially the second.

[Show spoiler]Enjoy the Ignore box.

[Show spoiler]

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Errol Riddick

Images related for all your posts ITT. Especially the second.

[Show spoiler]Enjoy the Ignore box.

[Show spoiler]

Yep, that's your second insult now. Very clever. That brave in real life are you? Six posts, two insults. Good way to start.

[blonde_devil]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

I challenge anyone to read the recent comments by Jeffrey Katzenberg (google it) about paying for movies by screen size in future and not be extremely worried about where the home entertainment industry could be headed. As soon as people can watch movies cheaper on portable screens we will see a mass exodus towards the smartphone/tablet. Economics of scale could mean the tv screen and higher quality become less and less a thing as we move into this exciting new streaming/downloading era. It is plans like this that will kill off home cinema and physical media.

But you can't hold back technology. Right now, people want to have movies on the go and if you want that, you watch it on a smaller screen. I saw Don Henley on the Charlie Rose show last week and he was complaining that today people buy music as mp3s and listen to the music though smaller earbuds - his feeling is that they miss the essence of the music that way. I won't argue that point but the fact is you need to be responsive to the market and what people want/need. I might have the cd at home to listen to but if I am on the go, an ipod is more practical than carrying a cd player with 3 cds. Movies really are not different - if I am on the road, it is easy for me to stream Netflix on my phone or tablet and watch something. That's just the way it is. I think people need to separate that - home and away. At home, I don't watch anything on my ipod or tablet - why would I when I have a nice HD tv? I think a majority of people are like that. But you don't always have that option, sometimes you are travelling or away from home so you might need to use a tablet or something to watch your shows and movies. That's just life. But I don't think doing that is going to kill of physical media quickly. I do think it might take a bite out of it, especially when they offer a download with your Blu-ray but I do think enough people still want to watch things at home and for them that means a physical disc.

[eiknarf]

Originally Posted by blonde_devil

But you can't hold back technology. Right now, people want to have movies on the go and if you want that, you watch it on a smaller screen. I saw Don Henley on the Charlie Rose show last week and he was complaining that today people buy music as mp3s and listen to the music though smaller earbuds - his feeling is that they miss the essence of the music that way. I won't argue that point but the fact is you need to be responsive to the market and what people want/need. I might have the cd at home to listen to but if I am on the go, an ipod is more practical than carrying a cd player with 3 cds. Movies really are not different - if I am on the road, it is easy for me to stream Netflix on my phone or tablet and watch something. That's just the way it is. I think people need to separate that - home and away. At home, I don't watch anything on my ipod or tablet - why would I when I have a nice HD tv? I think a majority of people are like that. But you don't always have that option, sometimes you are travelling or away from home so you might need to use a tablet or something to watch your shows and movies. That's just life. But I don't think doing that is going to kill of physical media quickly. I do think it might take a bite out of it, especially when they offer a download with your Blu-ray but I do think enough people still want to watch things at home and for them that means a physical disc.

The "home and away" analogy is spot on.
Of course, on a road trip, we can literally listen to 670 songs via our iPod or our smartphone. That makes sense. But we're not going to watch 670 movies on our road trip. Mainly, because films are longer than songs. Secondly, because we can't watch a movie while driving and operating out vehicle. We'll only have time to watch a film at our hotel or camp site.
Again, movie watching is a primary function, while listening to music is an accompanying function.

[PuppetMasterBlu]

Originally Posted by mar3o

Do you really think the people that are happy watching a leaked "cam" release or a rip will go spend $12 to see it in the theatre if the leak isn't available? Do you really think leaked releases affect box-office numbers? Anybody who thinks that is delusional, including the studios. Those people are not their customers. They were never going to spend the money anyways. Nobody says, "well, I was going to go to the cinema with my friends and watch it in 3D and Dolby Atmos, but it's online so I'll just download it instead and watch it on my phone". Nobody does this. Those who are happy watching a rip were never going to go to the theatre to see it anyways.

I wish that were true but people are lazy and I can promise you the average person doesn't know or give a damn about Atmos.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by blonde_devil

But you can't hold back technology. Right now, people want to have movies on the go and if you want that, you watch it on a smaller screen. I saw Don Henley on the Charlie Rose show last week and he was complaining that today people buy music as mp3s and listen to the music though smaller earbuds - his feeling is that they miss the essence of the music that way. I won't argue that point but the fact is you need to be responsive to the market and what people want/need. I might have the cd at home to listen to but if I am on the go, an ipod is more practical than carrying a cd player with 3 cds. Movies really are not different - if I am on the road, it is easy for me to stream Netflix on my phone or tablet and watch something. That's just the way it is. I think people need to separate that - home and away. At home, I don't watch anything on my ipod or tablet - why would I when I have a nice HD tv? I think a majority of people are like that. But you don't always have that option, sometimes you are travelling or away from home so you might need to use a tablet or something to watch your shows and movies. That's just life. But I don't think doing that is going to kill of physical media quickly. I do think it might take a bite out of it, especially when they offer a download with your Blu-ray but I do think enough people still want to watch things at home and for them that means a physical disc.

But I am not trying to. It's shit and I know it's shit. It's the way things are heading but some refuse to see that. It's going to kill home cinema and Digital (streaming) enabled it. Remember that guys and remember to pm me when I am right.

[BillieCassin]

Originally Posted by blonde_devil

But you can't hold back technology. Right now, people want to have movies on the go and if you want that, you watch it on a smaller screen.

But do they...really?

Or do the studios just think that's what they want?

I know very few people who actually sit and watch a full movie or even TV show on a phone. I know one guy who watches stuff on his iPad when he's out ice fishing. Other than that...and kids watching DVDs in the car...pretty much crickets.

[Batmon77]

Originally Posted by BillieCassin

But do they...really?

Or do the studios just think that's what they want?

I know very few people who actually sit and watch a full movie or even TV show on a phone. I know one guy who watches stuff on his iPad when he's out ice fishing. Other than that...and kids watching DVDs in the car...pretty much crickets.

I take the subway and plenty of folks watch movies.

Id imagine the airport/plane demographic has the same needs.

And when I acquired Arrow & The Flash TV shows last week a dude looked at me and said your could get this online(bootleg/free/torrent).

[BluMan28]

Let's not forget the attractiveness of selling a digital product that has no substance whatsoever, that is in fact not a product at all but actually access to product.

This has such a dramatically lower cost of production compared to producing physical media which I'm sure is rather seductive to studio exec's looking to achieve hefty bonuses by finding ways to cut costs. That alone could drive the move away from physical media, no matter what the demographics are or what perceptions of what the mass market wants these days.

I myself don't see physical media ever completely going away though. Seems to me it's going to simply become a very niche, specialized product that is rarely made and only for collectors who are willing to pay a very high price point. A present day example of this would be vinyl records. They've long since left the mass media market, but are still being made for a targeted niche group. I could see movies on physical media going down a very similar road over the next 20 years.

[blonde_devil]

Originally Posted by BillieCassin

But do they...really?

Or do the studios just think that's what they want?

I know very few people who actually sit and watch a full movie or even TV show on a phone. I know one guy who watches stuff on his iPad when he's out ice fishing. Other than that...and kids watching DVDs in the car...pretty much crickets.

I get what you all mean but what I am getting at is that people will use whatever is best for them and you can't say that it is a bad thing. After all, isn't the point of all of this to sell to the audience? Jeffrey Katzenberg doesn't produce movies in the hopes that no one sees them, he wants as many people to see them as possible. You can't complain about the format when your movie is still getting viewed. I am with BillieCassin in that I don't buy the hype that people are all abandoning their tv to watch it on an iPhone. I know it does happen but come on, there are over 300 million people living in the US - how many are really doing this? few million? Even if it was 30 million, that is not even 10% of the population. I do think it is on the rise but I think it is more a matter of convenience now. Before, you would take a book with you on vacation but since most places have free Wi-Fi, maybe you use your phone to watch Netflix instead. Or you are out at the cabin somewhere and now you can keep up with your shows. But it is a few times a year, not every day. I used to listen to music on my way to work, now I can keep up with a tv show instead of not watching it at all since it doesn't fit into my schedule - again, it isn't my preferred way but it fits my schedule for that show. I think the actual number of people who do watch it like that every day are rather low. And even with the streaming at home, yes it will take a bite out of physical media but hey, didn't vhs and dvd take a bite out of tv? That's how the medium works. But it won't put it out of business anytime soon.

[mredman]

yet just last week in just one week into its release Furious 7 sold 2.5 million discs with 62% being Blu-Ray and that was in the States alone. Who bought those i think This franchise has a lot of Young people of that generation

[thetony]

Originally Posted by PuppetMasterBlu

I wish that were true but people are lazy and I can promise you the average person doesn't know or give a damn about Atmos.

The same can be said for a majority of people and something like BT.

[BuckNaked2k]

Originally Posted by eiknarf

All of us here can bit torrent if we wanted, but we don't.

How do you know?

Originally Posted by PuppetMasterBlu

I wish that were true but people are lazy and I can promise you the average person doesn't know or give a damn about Atmos.

I'm far from the 'average person', and I couldn't give a flying flip about Atmos.

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by BuckNaked2k

How do you know?

I'm far from the 'average person', and I couldn't give a flying flip about Atmos.

I'm in the same boat there. 7 speakers and 1 sub is quite a bit as it is for my setup. I would consider going 7.2 in the future, but there's no point in adding 4 more speakers unless I just magically have money to burn.

[BuckNaked2k]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

I'm in the same boat there. 7 speakers and 1 sub is quite a bit as it is for my setup. I would consider going 7.2 in the future, but there's no point in adding 4 more speakers unless I just magically have money to burn.

I guess it's a matter of space. My HT is up in my loft. 5.1 channels of lossless surround is all I need to rock the room. I also don't do 3D. Not interested.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Ok, I will accelerate my argument. As soon as you give a cheaper option for rentals, that will be the dominant factor. The more Expensive tv ready option will have its price drove up and availability may be an issue.

The availability of 'tv ready' content will not be an issue. Millions and millions and millions of people have clearly and unambiguously demonstrated that they are more than happy to watch standard definition and stripped down high definition content on their big screen HDTVs.

Now, you might not like the idea of watching a DVD or a digital HD download on your big screen TV but the marketplace - you know, all those people whose behavior you're trying to predict - is totally fine with that.

And that content isn't going anywhere.

Oh, and while we're on the subject of TV ready content, I don't think you've ever responded to the multiple people who have raised the issue of watching live sports.

Do you envision billions of people watching the World Cup on their watches in a few years? And do you figure that will lead to broadcasters offering the smartphone version - and only the smartphone version - of the World Cup coverage?

Or does that seem kind of ridiculous to you?

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Standard Bluray is restricted by studios whims, unlike DVD which seems to get every release going. I can see the same for a pay by size scenario. Smartphone copies will be the future DVD if you will.

You keep pointing to DVD and Blu-ray as if they support your 'there can be only one' mindset but they don't. Out in the marketplace DVD and Blu-ray and cable and other forms of streaming all coexist.

Even if - and this is a huge, ridiculous if - a 'smartphone copy' of Interstellar becomes the most popular way of watching Interstellar there is absolutely no reason to believe it will ever be the only way to watch Interstellar.

Just look at DVD...

[blonde_devil]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

I'm in the same boat there. 7 speakers and 1 sub is quite a bit as it is for my setup. I would consider going 7.2 in the future, but there's no point in adding 4 more speakers unless I just magically have money to burn.

And a place that allows it. I have just a 5.1 but it doesn't cranked nearly as much as it should since I live in an apartment and I have neighbours. That tends to limit the volume. So for me, 7.1 or 10.1, new format, etc are not of great interest right now as I can't really enjoy them anyways. I think that is the key with all of this - not what does the average person have but what do most people have. That "average person" tends to be what you are exposed to - if you and your friends have high end systems, that tends to be your "average person" but it is not always true as a whole. I think they need to keep pushing the medium but really, most people still watch dvd over anything else so it isn't going way anytime soon.