Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (USE SPOILER TAGS!)

[mdawg1972]

I sincerely hope that someday people can take their blinders off and accept that this blatant cash grab, fan fiction, derivative movie is pure crap. It needs to be retitled new hope redux as it is a complete remake of the original which just sprinkled in a few new characters with stupid names (Kylo Ren-is that name really supposed to inspire fear-worst villian name ever)

Abrams did the same thing with Star Trek into darkness where he essentially remade wrath of Kahn.

Wake up people! You can enjoy movies without compromising your intelligence!

[Zivouhr]

Blinders or just fans being entertained by a story we love?

Originally Posted by Nightopian

Ok watched it again and one thing is clear for me now, the originality factor. It was something I thought about after the first viewing. One thing Lucas did with all the movies, especially the prequels is he came up with a lot of original ideas for worlds, spaceships, characters and events within the movie. Is it just me or did this movie really have none of this? It really didn't have that same feel of originality or moments of when you went, "wow, that looked awesome" or "where do they come up with this stuff". It really just felt like a run of the mill sci-fi film...I still enjoy it, don't get me wrong...I'm just not 100% sold on it...

On a positive note, a cute girl ended up sitting next to me this time and I got talking with her during the movie - turned out it was her second viewing as well...long story short, I ended up getting her number after the movie. lol I was under some intense pressure however because she was accompanied there by the dark side (her father). Luckily the force was strong with me that night and I pulled it off...

As a fan always hoping for the story to move forward, VII went beyond my expectations, and seeing the Falcon outmaneuver the tie fighters brought back all of the great memories and emotion from that point forward. I'm definitely a fan of the familiar elements brought back in VII with their subtle alterations. Plenty of classic grit and grime in the world of TFA.


Her father was the darkside. Nice going; good luck.

[A Sith Lord?]

Originally Posted by Nightopian

Ok watched it again and one thing is clear for me now, the originality factor. It was something I thought about after the first viewing. One thing Lucas did with all the movies, especially the prequels is he came up with a lot of original ideas for worlds, spaceships, characters and events within the movie. Is it just me or did this movie really have none of this? It really didn't have that same feel of originality or moments of when you went, "wow, that looked awesome" or "where do they come up with this stuff". It really just felt like a run of the mill sci-fi film...I still enjoy it, don't get me wrong...I'm just not 100% sold on it...

On a positive note, a cute girl ended up sitting next to me this time and I got talking with her during the movie - turned out it was her second viewing as well...long story short, I ended up getting her number after the movie. lol I was under some intense pressure however because she was accompanied there by the dark side (her father). Luckily the force was strong with me that night and I pulled it off...

Father may have given you permission to learn about the force, because you were also watching star wars.

[frogmort]

Originally Posted by mdawg1972

[Show spoiler]I sincerely hope that someday people can take their blinders off and accept that this blatant cash grab, fan fiction, derivative movie is pure crap. It needs to be retitled new hope redux as it is a complete remake of the original which just sprinkled in a few new characters with stupid names

Kylo Ren-is that name really supposed to inspire fear-worst villian name ever

[Show spoiler]

Abrams did the same thing with Star Trek into darkness where he essentially remade wrath of Kahn.

Wake up people! You can enjoy movies without compromising your intelligence!

Here's Kylo Ren

[Show spoiler] & Stimpy!

[BluBonnet]

Originally Posted by JasonHensley

Where has this sympathy for Lucas come from all of a sudden where people are praising the PT simply because he got to make the movies he supposedly wanted to make without studio interference? The PT had nowhere near as many hurdles as ANH or other, better, movies that filmmakers struggle to make.

If anything the PT is safer than TFA and relies on a much more childlike tone to play it even more safe by targeting kids. The PT had the benefit of its main cast being established names in the universe and didn't create any new meaningful characters or droids. Anakin, Palpatine, Yoda, ObiWan, Chewbacca, C3PO, R2D2, and even Bobba Fett where already established and many were shoehorned into the PT for fan service or an over abundance of comic relief. The PT also failed to introduce a new main villain that had any relevance whatsoever and relied on pretty sights and special effects to wow audiences instead of telling a compelling story. Throughout the documentaries of the PT, Lucas himself looks completely uninterested and didn't even have enough ideas to flesh out 3 movies. The few interesting ideas that would have actually helped the PT were only touched on and completely forgotten just so he could lighten the mood to appeal to a wider market in his mind.

TFA introduces a new main cast of heroes and villains, introduces a new droid that is popular, and isn't able to totally rely on characters from the OT. The OT cast had minor roles, mainly, along with them not afraid to do certain things with established characters. Why people complain about fan service in TFA and act as though the PT didn't have it in spades is beyond me.

Any one of the prequels has lots more interesting and original ideas going on than TFA, that's for sure. There are a lot of layers to the story, if you keep your kind open, it isn't just kid stuff, but the stuff that only adults would be able to grasp is a little more underneath the surface. And the insanely brilliant thing with the prequels is that the real villain is there all along - you just don't know it if you are watching these movies for the first time with no prior knowledge about what happens in 4-6. The characters who are supposed to be the main villains aren't really that at all, they are all mere pawns who are being manipulated by Palpatine, who will eventually be quite happy to dispose of them whenever it suits his needs so he can continue becoming more powerful. Maul, Dooku, Grievous, Jango, and even Anakin are all his pawns in the bigger strategy. This would possibly not be apparent to someone on a first viewing, but it adds to the suspense when rewatching the prequels.

The prequels also have a lot more original and interesting characters, more unique worlds, the amazing concept that is Coruscant - nothing in TFA even comes close. Pretty much everything is a carbon copy of the stuff Lucas did three decades ago. You get excited about the Millennium and some TIE fighters? It is just the nostalgia factor, you saw pretty much the exact same thing throughout all of the OT, and this is just a repeat of what happened before, maybe the ships are a little faster, if anything.

Can it be fun, even if it is only a carbon copy? Indubitably, it's making tons of cash... But it is only imitating what Lucas did originally, not trying to be something truly original.

And in this day and age, that seems to be good enough for a lot of folks.

[NYorker]

Originally Posted by BluBonnet

Any one of the prequels has lots more interesting and original ideas going on than TFA, that's for sure. There are a lot of layers to the story, if you keep your kind open, it isn't just kid stuff, but the stuff that only adults would be able to grasp is a little more underneath the surface. And the insanely brilliant thing with the prequels is that the real villain is there all along - you just don't know it if you are watching these movies for the first time with no prior knowledge about what happens in 4-6. The characters who are supposed to be the main villains aren't really that at all, they are all mere pawns who are being manipulated by Palpatine, who will eventually be quite happy to dispose of them whenever it suits his needs so he can continue becoming more powerful. Maul, Dooku, Grievous, Jango, and even Anakin are all his pawns in the bigger strategy. This would possibly not be apparent to someone on a first viewing, but it adds to the suspense when rewatching the prequels.

The prequels also have a lot more original and interesting characters, more unique worlds, the amazing concept that is Coruscant - nothing in TFA even comes close. Pretty much everything is a carbon copy of the stuff Lucas did three decades ago. You get excited about the Millennium and some TIE fighters? It is just the nostalgia factor, you saw pretty much the exact same thing throughout all of the OT, and this is just a repeat of what happened before, maybe the ships are a little faster, if anything.

Can it be fun, even if it is only a carbon copy? Indubitably, it's making tons of cash... But it is only imitating what Lucas did originally, not trying to be something truly original.

And in this day and age, that seems to be good enough for a lot of folks.

The prequels were terrible on many levels: story, dialogue, acting...you name it. You think the enthusiasm for TFA is a lot based on nostalgia? how about for the prequel trilogy, when the sheen wore off and people realized it was basically a kiddie movie with fancy special effects. Heck, even the only interesting characters (Maul and Tyrannus) were used like a Kleenex.

[NARMAK]

I have been thinking how some people aren't happy that this movies a 're-tread' over old ground, but i think in a way, it needed a solid restart on common ground of the old made new.

The only issue i will have with future movies is if they don't actually bother to do something new in them. The Rogue One movie next year should perhaps be our first indication of how they might branch out the stories, but the true sequel, Episode 8 will hopefully diverge a lot more from the OT and give a new glimpse into the new world they're creating for the next generation of fans and for old fans to experience.

[ambient_indie]

People actually like the prequels!?!?!

Deserve metals, you do.

I rewatched them for the sake of being years ago. I hoped they were underrated misunderstood gems that overtime got better. Yeah...no

The themes and great ideas are there, but not the focus or dialogue...or the acting.

It just feels so unorganized and unnecessarily long. Like, I was thinking about how to re-edit George's movie while I was watching them.

It became so tedious waiting for things to happen that I just wanted

[Show spoiler]Anakin to become Darth Vader, for everyone to figure out Palpatine is A Sith and just end

.

I appreciated the different planets and strange cgi creatures in the prequels. It just not enough.

Again, my hat is off to those who can look past all of this.

[ambient_indie]

Originally Posted by NARMAK

I have been thinking how some people aren't happy that this movies a 're-tread' over old ground, but i think in a way, it needed a solid restart on common ground of the old made new.

The only issue i will have with future movies is if they don't actually bother to do something new in them. The Rogue One movie next year should perhaps be our first indication of how they might branch out the stories, but the true sequel, Episode 8 will hopefully diverge a lot more from the OT and give a new glimpse into the new world they're creating for the next generation of fans and for old fans to experience.

I really hope so! I didn't mind that the Force Awakens was a remake of A New Hope because it was a pretty good remake and like you said common ground. It got me excited for the next adventures with these new characters, but if it does keep repeating beats it's gonna get really old fast.

[NARMAK]

Originally Posted by ambient_indie

I really hope so! I didn't mind that the Force Awakens was a remake of A New Hope because it was a pretty good remake and like you said common ground. It got me excited for the next adventures with these new characters, but if it does keep repeating beats it's gonna get really old fast.

I totally get the 'Sure bet' and 'Cash Cow' mentality execs have BUT at the same time, i think Star Wars can afford to go in a new direction for the new movies and add to the mythology or use parts of it we've seen but not experienced properly.

Right now, we're seeing too much of the same old. I'd actually like to see Finn go into a more Han Solo style escapade alongside Poe Dameron and end up meeting bounty hunters etc. whilst Rey trains with Luke and does their adventure and meet up in the 3rd act or something.

Just make it different to all the OT movies for the sequel and nobody will feel like they're just rehasing old ground for $$$$. Heck, they probably screwed consumers out of a billion just in merchandise pre-launch

[Stoney Jackson]

Edit: Nevermind

[Gamma_Winstead]

Originally Posted by NARMAK

I totally get the 'Sure bet' and 'Cash Cow' mentality execs have BUT at the same time, i think Star Wars can afford to go in a new direction for the new movies and add to the mythology or use parts of it we've seen but not experienced properly.

Right now, we're seeing too much of the same old. I'd actually like to see Finn go into a more Han Solo style escapade alongside Poe Dameron and end up meeting bounty hunters etc. whilst Rey trains with Luke and does their adventure and meet up in the 3rd act or something.

Just make it different to all the OT movies for the sequel and nobody will feel like they're just rehasing old ground for $$$$. Heck, they probably screwed consumers out of a billion just in merchandise pre-launch

screwed is a good word in some cases. All those people that bought Constable Zuuvio and Snow trooper action figures must be pissed!

[X400]

I can understand Lucas's ire, after all this is his baby, and it would be very difficult to satisfy a creator with a follow up that they were completely hands off on

While I liked TFA it isn't without major faults of its own and I can see how that would be grating to Lucas

If I'm working on a project and I mess up, I can live with it, as long as I feel I did it as best as I could at the time. But if I delegate work to employees and they mess up, I would be pissed / I would just notice the faults in their work and feel that they didn't give it their all (even if they did)

[Gamma_Winstead]

Originally Posted by X400

I can understand Lucas's ire, after all this is his baby, and it would be very difficult to satisfy a creator with a follow up that they were completely hands off on

While I liked TFA it isn't without major faults of its own and I can see how that would be grating to Lucas

If I'm working on a project and I mess up, I can live with it, as long as I feel I did it as best as I could at the time. But if I delegate work to employees and they mess up, I would be pissed / I would just notice the faults in their work and feel that they didn't give it their all (even if they did)

The problem is, that's not what happened. In this case, George decided to retire, and got to pick anyone in the world to run his company. He did so, and now he won't stop criticizing every decision they make. He either needs to back off, or admit that he wishes he didn't sell.

[X400]

yeah it's not exactly the same, but if you're a creator of something, especially something you've dedicated most your life to, you can't let it go, even if you do, and comparing/critiquing everything that comes out afterwards just goes with the territory

[Guydowood]

Lucas should let the public decide and release his treatments for sequel trilogy. I'm very curious on how much Abrams used and didn't use. The love/hate relationship with the prequels will never stop. Hardcore, loyal fans will dispute it and that's fine. The generation is was aimed to please made its point and they'll continue to enjoy them for years. The Force Awakens love/hate relationship banter is somewhat laughable only because currently Disney is laughing it's way all the way to the bank with the loot the flick is still making.....it's unfortunate that movie business cannot seem to make anything 'original' anymore and it's all about the 'franchise'.

[Nightrunner]

Is it possible to tell an original story within the existing Star Wars universe? Keep the same ships, locations and known leaders. Now...go write it and let Disney pull it apart and make you play it safe.

$1.23 billion is not to shabby.

IF we were given the Thrawn trilogy would it have made as much money?

[Rodney-2187]

Originally Posted by NARMAK

I'd actually like to see Finn go into a more Han Solo style escapade alongside Poe Dameron and end up meeting bounty hunters etc. whilst Rey trains with Luke and does their adventure and meet up in the 3rd act or something.

I like the sound of that. We don't know the extent of Finn's injuries though. I wonder if his spine was damaged? He might not be up for much adventuring. Maybe he gets more of a role in the command with Leia. He did actively participate in an important mission to Starkiller. He could get some sort of rank now.

[Gamma_Winstead]

Originally Posted by Nightrunner

Is it possible to tell an original story within the existing Star Wars universe? Keep the same ships, locations and known leaders. Now...go write it and let Disney pull it apart and make you play it safe.

$1.23 billion is not to shabby.

IF we were given the Thrawn trilogy would it have made as much money?

I see no reason it wouldn't have. People went and saw it because it was Star Wars. The trailers showed nothing of the plot, so the idea that the plot playing it safe had anything to do with the box office doesn't hold much weight.

They easily could have done practically the same story within the old EU.

[Show spoiler]I mean, they technically did to be honest. Han and Leia's son Jacen went evil, and killed Luke's wife and Han and Leia's other son, Anakin. Even Kylos name is taken from the EU. Luke's son was named Ben.

[Nightrunner]

Originally Posted by Gamma_Winstead

I see no reason it wouldn't have. People went and saw it because it was Star Wars. The trailers showed nothing of the plot, so the idea that the plot playing it safe had anything to do with the box office doesn't hold much weight.

They easily could have done practically the same story within the old EU.

[Show spoiler]I mean, they technically did to be honest. Han and Leia's son Jacen went evil, and killed Luke's wife and Han and Leia's other son, Anakin. Even Kylos name is taken from the EU. Luke's son was named Ben.

I loved the movie. I saw it five times and plan to go back for more.

I saw the originality in it and even like what they did with the OT crew. What I was saying was Disney gave us what we wanted and I am thankful. The spin-offs should give us more insight to the SW universe.