Bitter Rice (1949)

[MifuneFan]

Okay, this really isn't a great example, but I couldn't get a direct feed of the Hulu stream so I just filmed it with my camera. You can still see some of the obvious skips and dropped (or missing) frames in this sequence. It's the same sequence that Pro-B describes in his review as being problematic.

WP 20160111 001 - YouTube

Do the frames drop (or are missing) at the same spots for you Pro-B?

[pro-bassoonist]

1. I just received an email from Criterion and it states that there are missing frames in the original film element.

2. Unfortunately, as I stated earlier, somewhere, something must have gone wrong, because the entire sequence appears without any of these issues that I have described in the review on the Cristaldi Film DVD release distributed by Fox Italia, which was also promoted as a "restoration" at the time when it was released, and which I own.

3. I don't want to speculate, but if I had to guess, I would probably say that the issue is on the master that was struck -- whether it was a long time ago or more recently is anyone's guess.

4. The fact of the matter is this: The frames are not missing. They exist. If they were missing and the issue was inherited, they would not have appeared on the Italian master from Cristaldi Film. Franco Cristaldi produced the film.

Pro-B

[kuro_sawa]

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

1. I just received an email from Criterion and it states that there are missing frames in the original film element.

2. Unfortunately, as I stated earlier, somewhere, something must have gone wrong, because the entire sequence appears without any of these issues that I have described in the review on the Cristaldi Film DVD release distributed by Fox Italia, which was also promoted as a "restoration" at the time when it was released, and which I own.

3. I don't want to speculate, but if I had to guess, I would probably say that the issue is on the master that was struck -- whether it was a long time ago or more recently is anyone's guess.

4. The fact of the matter is this: The frames are not missing. They exist. If they were missing and the issue was inherited, they would not have appeared on the Italian master from Cristaldi Film. Franco Cristaldi produced the film.

Pro-B

This is quite unfortunate. Thanks for letting us know their response, so as to not anticipate a replacement.

Also unfortunate is that I watched the CC last night, came here and saw your post, then went to find my Italian DVD. Spent over an hour looking for it, I think it's gone

[RiFiFi1955]

Originally Posted by kuro_sawa

This is quite unfortunate. Thanks for letting us know their response, so as to not anticipate a replacement.

Also unfortunate is that I watched the CC last night, came here and saw your post, then went to find my Italian DVD. Spent over an hour looking for it, I think it's gone

Don't you hate that! That happened with my The Big Sleep DVD, still can't find it but hey it don't matter anymore!

[RiFiFi1955]

and yes thanks Pro-B for the information and research!

[SkyAntoine]

If Summer with Monika was re-edited as an sexploitation film, then was the same ever done for this? I haven't watched this yet, but I'm getting a racy vibe from all of the photos so far.

[tenia]

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

1. I just received an email from Criterion and it states that there are missing frames in the original film element.

4. The fact of the matter is this: The frames are not missing. They exist. If they were missing and the issue was inherited, they would not have appeared on the Italian master from Cristaldi Film.

Unfortunate they don't seem to want to go looking deeper in the matter.

[memoryshuffle]

The only thing I can think of is that the R2 DVD was mastered from a different source or multiple sources, like the Metropolis blu-ray. Maybe an alternate take was used?

[nitin]

Originally Posted by tenia

Unfortunate they don't seem to want to go looking deeper in the matter.

they would have to start from scratch and create a new master etc, maybe inserting that scene from a different source? I'm guessing would be way too expensive.

[pro-bassoonist]

Originally Posted by nitin

they would have to start from scratch and create a new master etc, maybe inserting that scene from a different source? I'm guessing would be way too expensive.

1. The Criterion release isn't sourced from an unknown element -- their master comes from the original 35mm film negative. The information is quoted in the review.

2. I would assume that all other current elements in circulation come from the OCN. I would be surprised if Cristaldi Film restored/remastered the film from some different element -- possibly an internegative or an interpositive -- which happens to be in better condition and more complete than the OCN because the DVD release has its fair share of age-related issues. It is not an impossible scenario, but someone would have to show some evidence that these frames are indeed not found on the OCN. At the moment it appears that something went wrong during the mastering process.

3. A Spirit DataCine was used to create the master. Currently, the overwhelming majority of new masters -- 2K or 4K -- are done on ARRIs, Northlights, Oxberrys, etc. So, as I noted earlier, one can only guess whether the current master was done a long time ago or more recently, and whether someone would have actually noticed that something was missing.

Pro-B

[ElliesDad]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

Okay, this really isn't a great example, but I couldn't get a direct feed of the Hulu stream so I just filmed it with my camera. You can still see some of the obvious skips and dropped (or missing) frames in this sequence. It's the same sequence that Pro-B describes in his review as being problematic.

[Show spoiler]

WP 20160111 001 - YouTube

Do the frames drop (or are missing) at the same spots for you Pro-B?

So the discussion is about a couple of skipped frames in a ten-second sequence that weren't apparently noticed by other reviewers? If the presentation generally is as good as indicated I can live with that! Just adds to the sense of authenticity in viewing a vintage, classic, sixty-six year old film.

[ArnoldLayne56]

Now that the missing frames issue is exhausted, there have been no posts or user reviews since the release date ;-)
Did anyone actually buy and watch this film yet?
I'd be interested to hear some of your thoughts before buying (having nothing to do with missing frames)
Cheers

[kuro_sawa]

Originally Posted by ArnoldLayne56

Now that the missing frames issue is exhausted, there have been no posts or user reviews since the release date ;-)
Did anyone actually buy and watch this film yet?
I'd be interested to hear some of your thoughts before buying (having nothing to do with missing frames)
Cheers

It's a great film, think neorealism with a dash of pulp

[ArnoldLayne56]

Well, I see that Silvana Mangano is Giada DeLaurentiis' grandmother!

[ElliesDad]

Originally Posted by ArnoldLayne56

Now that the missing frames issue is exhausted, there have been no posts or user reviews since the release date ;-)
Did anyone actually buy and watch this film yet?
I'd be interested to hear some of your thoughts before buying (having nothing to do with missing frames)
Cheers

Just came in from Amazon last week. Did a quick preview on the first ten minutes or so before heading out the door and was more than happy with the picture quality. Its been many, many years since I saw this but it did leave an impression and the first few minutes of re-viewing did not disappoint. It's classic Italian neorealism with a touch of spice (and yes, some pulp) but in terms of atmosphere and social consciousness in relation to time and place I'd personally place it in the same heady league as "Bicycle Thieves", "Two Women", and the rest of its contemporaries.

[ArnoldLayne56]

Originally Posted by ElliesDad

Just came in from Amazon last week. Did a quick preview on the first ten minutes or so before heading out the door and was more than happy with the picture quality. Its been many, many years since I saw this but it did leave an impression and the first few minutes of re-viewing did not disappoint. It's classic Italian neorealism with a touch of spice (and yes, some pulp) but in terms of atmosphere and social consciousness in relation to time and place I'd personally place it in the same heady league as "Bicycle Thieves", "Two Women", and the rest of its contemporaries.

Having purchased and watched the film, I agree with your assessment.
Any fence-sitters out there- it's $14.99 today on Amazon.