4K on PS4 and Xbox One?

[sonicyogurt]

Originally Posted by Derb

So how do you market 2 entirely different PS4's to 1 consumer?

Jeff is insistent that the current hardware model can play UHD BD discs. There is nothing you or anyone can say to convince him otherwise.

I mean, when the person responsible for the hardware in the PS4 said UHD BD support isn't possible -- and who on the planet is in a greater position of authority to answer the question than that? -- Jeff insists that Masayasu Ito either doesn't know what he's talking about or is lying to adhere to an NDA.

Perhaps it is technically possible, and maybe Sony will come up with a workaround that'll allow playback of UHD BD discs on the existing PS4. More remarkable things have certainly happened. Still, the word from literally the most authoritative person at Sony about this is "no", and the last update from Microsoft about supporting UHD BD dates back more than two years before the format spec was finalized. The sensible thing would be to assume the answer remains "no" until someone at Sony and/or Microsoft says it'll be "yes", and no blathering about ATSC 3, ooVoo, HTML5 <video>, Xtensa, etc. will change that.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by sonicyogurt

Jeff is insistent that the current hardware model can play UHD BD discs. There is nothing you or anyone can say to convince him otherwise.

I mean, when the person responsible for the hardware in the PS4 said UHD BD support isn't possible -- and who on the planet is in a greater position of authority to answer the question than that? -- Jeff insists that Masayasu Ito either doesn't know what he's talking about or is lying to adhere to an NDA.

Perhaps it is technically possible, and maybe Sony will come up with a workaround that'll allow playback of UHD BD discs on the existing PS4. More remarkable things have certainly happened. Still, the word from literally the most authoritative person at Sony about this is "no", and the last update from Microsoft about supporting UHD BD dates back more than two years before the format spec was finalized. The sensible thing would be to assume the answer remains "no" until someone at Sony and/or Microsoft says it'll be "yes", and no blathering about ATSC 3, ooVoo, HTML5 <video>, Xtensa, etc. will change that.

My word, you've solved for Rigby!

[NARMAK]

Why could the PS4 not technically support 4k?

The specs seem more than adequate for blu ray playback. I think it's more than a technical issue but more to do with the current lifecycle of PS4 doing well and UHD being introduced being a confusing thing that'll create noise and confusion.

Personally not bothered about 4k just yet because I'm waiting on OLED to get better and probably till another next gen console releases. However I'm just curious why PS4 is said to be incapable of 4k and UHD.

I think they could introduce a UHD movies download. Try and remember, PS4 supports 4k streaming already.

[Derb]

Originally Posted by NARMAK

Try and remember, PS4 supports 4k streaming already.

Actually,

It doesn't.

About the UHD playback on PS4, yes it is entirely possible. So my question remains..

How do market a newer model when someone who has the older one will not playback UHD? + expect to profit from it & the hardware revision when PS5 has been in the shop since 2012

Ahhhhhh

[Mavrick]

Could PS4 do 4K? Theoretically yes it could. There is hardware such as the new Sky Q box that is able to be updated to enable 4K, so HDCP and HDMI profiles can be updated via firmware updates, it's more a question of WILL Sony bother to do it.

They haven't even announced a stand alone yet, so I don't think we will see anything on the console front for a while. I would bet if anything UHD playback on PS4 would be limited to Sonys own content delivery platform.

I'm still of the belief that we will have a PS5 by 2019 anyway. So there's not really that long to wait and I'm sure that it will have UHD playback built in.

[jeff_rigby]

Originally Posted by sonicyogurt

Jeff is insistent that the current hardware model can play UHD BD discs. There is nothing you or anyone can say to convince him otherwise.

I mean, when the person responsible for the hardware in the PS4 said UHD BD support isn't possible -- and who on the planet is in a greater position of authority to answer the question than that? -- Jeff insists that Masayasu Ito either doesn't know what he's talking about or is lying to adhere to an NDA.

Perhaps it is technically possible, and maybe Sony will come up with a workaround that'll allow playback of UHD BD discs on the existing PS4. More remarkable things have certainly happened. Still, the word from literally the most authoritative person at Sony about this is "no", and the last update from Microsoft about supporting UHD BD dates back more than two years before the format spec was finalized. The sensible thing would be to assume the answer remains "no" until someone at Sony and/or Microsoft says it'll be "yes", and no blathering about ATSC 3, ooVoo, HTML5 <video>, Xtensa, etc. will change that.

When the PS4 was released, Sony employees said that the PS4 will not support DLNA, CD or MP3 and at that time I said that was not true. CD support is in the documentation, MP3 is one of the HTML5 audio standards and DLNA is required for Vidipath support which I and others knew was coming (me since 2012). Sony recently sent PDFs to the FCC showing a PS3 and PS4 with DLNA/Vidipath/Passage/Downloadable security support.

I am past the point in believing anything Sony says without proof. Point out any document stating what UHD requires that can not be supported with the PS4 or XB1 and I will acknowledge that it can't support UHD. No one has done more than say Ito says that a dedicated Hardware ASIC to support HEVC was not ready when the PS4 was released or the PS4 drive can not read 3 layers. Both points have been proven false as the XB1 does support HEVC with Xtensa accelerators and there is no such thing as a UHD drive.

For Gods sake there is a UHD test player for Game consoles. It's assumed that the Nintendo NX will not support HD or UHD blu-ray so that leaves the only two game consoles with drives as the XB1 and PS4. Both document their drives as BD-ROM with the PS4 as BD-ROM and BD-R.

The other points I am making relate to the media features that both Sony and Microsoft plan to support as they are going to be released during the early life of the consoles. It's well known that both the XB1 and PS4 are designed to be media hubs as Home servers to phones and other STBs and TVs. That no one has announced this "Officially" doesn't make it not true.

I got tired of all the ignorance spouting off that the PS4 and XB1 Can't support UHD and made an equally definite statement that it can but with proof. The proof stands until someone counters it with facts.

[MisterXDTV]

The question is not "if these consoles CAN support 4K".... The only question that matters is: "WILL they?"

And the answer seems to be: "maybe streaming services, not discs"

Nobody cares about theoretical capabilities, but only what these machines actually DO...

[jeff_rigby]

Originally Posted by MisterXDTV

The question is not "if these consoles CAN support 4K".... The only question that matters is: "WILL they?"

And the answer seems to be: "maybe streaming services, not discs"

Nobody cares about theoretical capabilities, but only what these machines actually DO...

Again, you have to ignore that there is a test player for Game consoles and there are only two on the market. That there is a UHD test player for the PC means that there will be UHD blu-ray support on PCs right?

Can you imagine the XB1 with UHD blu-ray and not the PS4 or the reverse?

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by jeff_rigby

Again, you have to ignore that there is a test player for Game consoles and there are only two on the market. That there is a UHD test player for the PC means that there will be UHD blu-ray support on PCs right?

Can you imagine the XB1 with UHD blu-ray and not the PS4 or the reverse?

Supposing you're correct that support is possible with current hardware, I can imagine an incentive for Sony to withhold announcement of PS4 UHD support plans for now (to move some stand-alone player hardware until player prices/costs fall closer into line with those of the PS4 so as not to cannibalize their own profit margin), but what possible reason does Microsoft have to not trumpet support from the mountaintop and beat Sony to the punch/market?

[MisterXDTV]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

Supposing you're correct that support is possible with current hardware, I can imagine an incentive for Sony to withhold announcement of PS4 UHD support plans for now (to move some stand-alone player hardware until player prices/costs fall closer into line with those of the PS4 so as not to cannibalize their own profit margin), but what possible reason does Microsoft have to not trumpet support from the mountaintop and beat Sony to the punch/market?

Sony is not even going to launch a UHD BD Player first generation....

It would be perfect for them to add UHD BD playback with a firmware update on the top selling hardware in the world right now....

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by MisterXDTV

Sony is not even going to launch a UHD BD Player first generation....

It would be perfect for them to add UHD BD playback with a firmware update on the top selling hardware in the world right now....

Exactly. Were it feasible to do so, their holding off would make very little sense to me.

[Frank@Chicago]

Put me in the conspiracy camp, I don't believe Sony either.

I suspect that both PS4/X1 could probably provide limited UHD playback with a firmware update (HD audio side would be the most limited).

However, both MS and Sony are making good money off their respective online shops and so it makes more sense for them to play dumb.

Sony recently developed a PS2 emulator for PS4, but I can't use my actual PS2 discs (surprise!).

I have to re-buy my games again and download them. Yea...no.

[jeff_rigby]

Originally Posted by Frank@Chicago

Put me in the conspiracy camp, I don't believe Sony either.

I suspect that both PS4/X1 could probably provide limited UHD playback with a firmware update (HD audio side would be the most limited).

However, both MS and Sony are making good money off their respective online shops and so it makes more sense for them to play dumb.

Sony recently developed a PS2 emulator for PS4, but I can't use my actual PS2 discs (surprise!).

I have to re-buy my games again and download them. Yea...no.

From Tensilica on their Xtensa processors for Blu-ray players which Sony has been using since 2007 in their blu-ray players. An upgraded version is in the XB1 and PS4 as well as AMD True Audio.

Blu-ray Disc Players and Set-Top Boxes

Blu-ray Disc™ players and recorders require extensive digital signal processing—and Cadence® Tensilica® dataplane processors are right in there, doing the heavy DSP processing. Just look at the things that need to be engineered in a Blu-ray Disc player:

Audio Processing
Video/Graphics Processing
Security/DRM
Wireless
Applications Processing

[sonicyogurt]

Originally Posted by jeff_rigby

Can you imagine the XB1 with UHD blu-ray and not the PS4 or the reverse?

It'll at most have the same impact as the PS3 not supporting HD DVD and the Xbox 360 not supporting Blu-ray. Very, very few people will notice and even fewer will care.

[jeff_rigby]

Originally Posted by sonicyogurt

It'll at most have the same impact as the PS3 not supporting HD DVD and the Xbox 360 not supporting Blu-ray. Very, very few people will notice and even fewer will care.

If it can support one UHD delivery method it can support all. It's not just about UHD Blu-ray. If it can't support UHD Blu-ray it can't support any coming Media scheme and it's dead as far as media is concerned within 2 years. 1080P and lower will also be delivered via HEVC to reduce bandwidth which impact Cable TV mandated caps. ATSC 3 requires HEVC multi-view which will be primarily used to stream multiple 720P and 1080P streams (twice as many AS h.264).