THE PHANTOM OF THE OPERA (1925/1929) - Kino Classics - October 13, 2015

[Boob-Ray]

What's the main reason for including both a 20fps and 24fps version.? It seems like a lot of unnecessary trouble to go through if it's just a "technical" display issue. Are there more timing and editorial issues at play here?

I spent most of the day playing the Kino 20fps version, enjoying it, the soundtrack and commentary track. And now I'm playing the Kino 24fps version (with Gaylord Carter organ track -- love organ tracks!!). Why go through the trouble here... I feel like the 20fps was more natural, but are there other differences?

[oddbox83]

Originally Posted by Boob-Ray

What's the main reason for including both a 20fps and 24fps version.? It seems like a lot of unnecessary trouble to go through if it's just a "technical" display issue. Are there more timing and editorial issues at play here?

I spent most of the day playing the Kino 20fps version, enjoying it, the soundtrack and commentary track. And now I'm playing the Kino 24fps version (with Gaylord Carter organ track -- love organ tracks!!). Why go through the trouble here... I feel like the 20fps was more natural, but are there other differences?

I think 20fps is correct for the original bits reused, bits spliced in from the 1929 talkie version are likely running correct at 24.

[Phillip Jay Fry EOE]

Okay, so I was perusing Youtube when I found this channel, PanoramicGreen, which has several videos of side by side comparisons between a restored version and an unrestored version of the 1925 Phantom. I can't find any information as to who this is and how they are restoring the film, but it looks incredible. I don't think this is the 1925 version from BFI, but I haven't watched that disc in a while. But this restoration looks great, and a lot of damage has been cleaned up. I'm watching it on my big screen now, and I'm honestly blown away, even though it's on Youtube. Go check it out, subscribe to this person, and maybe we'll see a full length restoration of the 1925 version like this! Let me know what y'all think!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1ep...ature=youtu.be

[Phillip Jay Fry EOE]

Originally Posted by Phillip Jay Fry EOE

Okay, so I was perusing Youtube when I found this channel, PanoramicGreen, which has several videos of side by side comparisons between a restored version and an unrestored version of the 1925 Phantom. I can't find any information as to who this is and how they are restoring the film, but it looks incredible. I don't think this is the 1925 version from BFI, but I haven't watched that disc in a while. But this restoration looks great, and a lot of damage has been cleaned up. I'm watching it on my big screen now, and I'm honestly blown away, even though it's on Youtube. Go check it out, subscribe to this person, and maybe we'll see a full length restoration of the 1925 version like this! Let me know what y'all think!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1ep...ature=youtu.be

It also looks like this person has done some work on Hunchback. Have any of you seen the Flicker Alley release? I haven't yet. How does this look compared to that restoration? I read the 'About' section on the PanoramicGreen's profile, and it says they're raising money to help their father that just had a stroke. Man, if there is a way to raise money to help this person's father and also lead to great restorations like this, that would be incredible. I'm going to keep a close eye on this channel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agTb...ature=youtu.be

[jimqk]

Just finished watching the 20fps Kino version. At the 1:11:23 mark there is a major flaw. It switches quickly to a different scene featuring an unmasked phantom laughing and then switches back to the proper scene.

Did anyone else notice this, or is this a problem with my particular disc?

[Sgt Yard]

Originally Posted by jimqk

Did anyone else notice this, or is this a problem with my particular disc?

Good grief! You're absolutely right, it's on mine too. [emoji20]

I've just watched the same section on the Park Circus disc, no problems there. What a strange error!

[bigshot]

It's sad, but the 20 frame version on Image/Kino has never been really right. The music was way out of sync on the first Image release, they re-edited it for the Kino and got it on the beat, but the accents fall in different places. And that mastering glitch you discovered is on every copy. For some reason, Kino seems to think the 24 frame version is all that matters. But I personally like the way the 20fps one plays. They've had so many mistakes with this release, I think they've given up.

[Sgt Yard]

The 20 fps is my version of choice too. It took a bit of getting used to after years of watching the 24 fps version with Lee Erwin's organ score, but the more natural movement and Gabriel Thibadeau's excellent score make it a great experience.

I've held on to my Eureka DVD, which doesn't have the slow motion ballet - I suspect they must have transferred those bits at 24 fps and edited them into the 20 fps whole so the score syncs a lot better.

So now I've effectively got three versions of the same thing, but none are definitive!

[brettxwt]

Didn't know that the british release has the 1925 version in HD, may have to pick that up

[applemac]

Originally Posted by brettxwt

Didn't know that the british release has the 1925 version in HD, may have to pick that up

I went with the british copy and am pretty happy with it, its a nice set.

[jimqk]

This is really upsetting to me, because I, too, prefer the 20fps version and Thibadeau's score, and now this. There's another error earlier that's not as bad, but it's bad enough. It occurs shortly after the initial unmasking. Next time I watch it I'll make a note ... but my big problem is, what the hell are we paying for?

This Blu-ray cost a nice chunk of money for a silent public domain movie that's allegedly all fixed up. There was obviously no quality control here. It's totally ridiculous. I feel like contacting Kino and demanding my money back. I know these errors were not on the old Image DVD.

Put it this way ... if Universal released "Jaws" with an error like what's found on this disc, there would be a recall and a replacement program.

[Sgt Yard]

Originally Posted by jimqk

if Universal released "Jaws" with an error like what's found on this disc, there would be a recall and a replacement program.

In all fairness the Image bluray was swiftly repressed when the issues with the sound and the awkward menu were reported. Maybe if enough people politely report the errors on this edition to Kino they may consider a repress?

While it's not exactly the end of the world, it's disappointing not to be able to get a definitive bluray of my preferred version of the film, complete with all the nice extras. The Park Circus blu is very nice, and is only marred by the slow motion ballerinas near the beginning. I think the 1925 version looks better on the accompanying Park Circus DVD, while the upscaled version on the Kino blu suffers from a strange banding effect.

Otherwise, the Kino is a very nice set, just not quite as definitive as I'd hoped it would be.

[jimqk]

Originally Posted by Sgt Yard

Maybe if enough people politely report the errors on this edition to Kino they may consider a repress?

OK. I'm going to report it in a polite manner. I hope some others on here would follow suit. The 20fps version with Thibadeau's score is the version I prefer, and it would be nice to have it without these errors.

[Sgt Yard]

Originally Posted by jimqk

There's another error earlier that's not as bad, but it's bad enough. It occurs shortly after the initial unmasking. Next time I watch it I'll make a note

No need, I think I know the bit you mean - it's at 0:46:49 - a stray shot of Mary Philbin slap bang in the middle of the intertitle "Oh, mad Christine who would not heed my warning!" It's not there in the 24 fps version.

I've just been watching the 20 fps version on the Park Circus disc - that's got a few problems as well - odd pauses here and there. I think the picture's a bit better on the Kino, so it's swings and roundabouts.

I'm keeping the Eureka DVD!

[sa5150]

did the UK bluray just go out of print ?I missed it at 8.99 pounds , darn it . amazon UK does not have it anymore , not it's only marketplace sellers .

[Bates_Motel]

Originally Posted by sa5150

did the UK bluray just go out of print ?I missed it at 8.99 pounds , darn it . amazon UK does not have it anymore , not it's only marketplace sellers .

Yes, they have it.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Phantom-Ope...m+of+the+opera

[Sgt Yard]

The BFI version has Carl Davis' score, but has had the man with lantern sequence and the end titles deleted. I believe it's got a better picture than the Image/Park Circus/Kino versions, except for the Bal Masque scene. It really is swings and roundabouts with the various releases of this film!

[sa5150]

Originally Posted by Sgt Yard

The BFI version has Carl Davis' score, but has had the man with lantern sequence and the end titles deleted. I believe it's got a better picture than the Image/Park Circus/Kino versions, except for the Bal Masque scene. It really is swings and roundabouts with the various releases of this film!

You mean that the bfi is missing scenes that the kino have ?

[sa5150]

This movie is confusing , What is the original version that aired in theaters in the 20's ? What was the music score used then and is that on any of these discs now ? Why is there a dvd in the bfi , is there bonus footage that could not be presented in 1080 or just a worthless dvd put in a set ? I still don't know why they do dual format which would add to cost .

One night I had all lights off and was watching my star wars bluray box set that I just bought . I had no idea there were dvds in there (no wonder it was so heavy ) When I turned the lights on to put the disc away it said dvd on it . I ended up watching the dvd not the bluray . Either it was one heck of a transfer or I have the worlds greatest bluray /tv set up LOL

[Sgt Yard]

Originally Posted by sa5150

You mean that the bfi is missing scenes that the kino have ?

The man with lantern scene is presented separately. I don't know about the end credits, but I suppose they're available on the 1925 version.