A Guide to Bipolar, Dipolar, & Direct-Radiating Monopole Surround Speakers (PART I)

[mdabb]

I pretty sure Revel has dipole speakers as well............

[RUR]

As well as most Martin Logans.

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by RUR

As well as most Martin Logans.

I can't find any information about their Bipole/Dipole speakers.
http://www.us.martinlogan.com/frontpage.html

[RUR]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

I can't find any information about their Bipole/Dipole speakers.
http://www.us.martinlogan.com/frontpage.html

All of the ESL models are dipoles and folks can and do use all of the big panels for surrounds:

Vista http://www.us.martinlogan.com/speaker_intro/vista.html
Vantage http://www.us.martinlogan.com/speake...o/vantage.html
Spire http://www.us.martinlogan.com/speaker_intro/spire.html
Source http://www.us.martinlogan.com/speaker_intro/source.html
Purity http://www.us.martinlogan.com/speaker_intro/purity.html

Summit is no longer listed on the site (soon to be replaced) and not even ML is crazy enough to recommend the CLX for surrounds.

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by RUR

All of the ESL models are dipoles and folks can and do use all of the big panels for surrounds:

Vista http://www.us.martinlogan.com/speaker_intro/vista.html
Vantage http://www.us.martinlogan.com/speake...o/vantage.html
Spire http://www.us.martinlogan.com/speaker_intro/spire.html
Source http://www.us.martinlogan.com/speaker_intro/source.html
Purity http://www.us.martinlogan.com/speaker_intro/purity.html

Summit is no longer listed on the site (soon to be replaced) and not even ML is crazy enough to recommend the CLX for surrounds.

Thank you. I added Martin Logan to the list.

If anybody else knows of other companies that make Bipole or Dipole speakers, please let me know. The companies are listed in Post #2.

[micks_address]

Mordaunt short also make bi-poles

http://www.mordauntshort.com/summary...tle=Avant+903i

Actually ordered two to use as rear speakers. Have 902i on order for fronts and 905c for centre

Interested to see how the bi-poles work out..

Cheers,
Mick

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by micks_address

Mordaunt short also make bi-poles

http://www.mordauntshort.com/summary...tle=Avant+903i

Actually ordered two to use as rear speakers. Have 902i on order for fronts and 905c for centre

Interested to see how the bi-poles work out..

Cheers,
Mick

I added Mordaunt-Short to the list of Manufacturers in post #2. Thank you.

[konga]

I was surprised to see HiVi Swan Speakers are not on the list.

www.swanspeaker.com

[jerix]

________________________________
l FL Screen FR Sub1 l
l Sub2 l
l l
l l
l l
l l
lSL ______SR_____l
l l
l l
l l
l________________SB l

Big daddy, the illustration above shows my HT area and present speaker setup. I am using only one back surround and I want to put one more. Where can i possibly place the other back surround?

I am using dipole surround speakers and my available back surrounds are also dipoles.

Please comment too on the placement of my speakers. Thanks

[Opips2]

I believe that bipole or dipole speaker are only surround. I think that's best way on side for large room. if a small room then back wall.

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by jerix

________________________________
l FL Screen FR Sub1 l
l Sub2 l
l l
l l
l l
l l
lSL ______SR_____l
l l
l l
l l
l________________SB l

Big daddy, the illustration above shows my HT area and present speaker setup. I am using only one back surround and I want to put one more. Where can i possibly place the other back surround?

I am using dipole surround speakers and my available back surrounds are also dipoles.

Please comment too on the placement of my speakers. Thanks

You can put the other back speaker to the left of SB and behind SL. Also move the SR closer to you and in the same line as the front right speaker. As far as the subwoofers are concerned, I would put one sub in the middle of the front wall and the other in the middle of the rear wall. The following diagrams should help you.

The following diagrams demonstrate the best positions for multiple subwoofers.

Very Good



Good



Best



Best

[STARSCREAM]

BigDaddy, I just got the Polk FXiA4's for side and back surrounds. I have the sides set on dipole and the backs set on bipole. My question is on the backs set on bipole should I flip them in the way they are labeled? Meaning the speaker labeled left should I put it where the left back surround speaker goes or where the right back surround speaker goes? I saw the posts that said you need to switch them when set on dipole so they don't cancel each other out but it didn't say for bipole.

[prerich]

Originally Posted by STARSCREAM

BigDaddy, I just got the Polk FXiA4's for side and back surrounds. I have the sides set on dipole and the backs set on bipole. My question is on the backs set on bipole should I flip them in the way they are labeled? Meaning the speaker labeled left should I put it where the left back surround speaker goes or where the right back surround speaker goes? I saw the posts that said you need to switch them when set on dipole so they don't cancel each other out but it didn't say for bipole.

Correct me Big Daddy if I'm wrong:

Starscream - Let your rear speakers be Bipoles (dont switch right with left - let right go to right and left to left in a bipole configuration) - the reason for switching on dipoles is that they are wired 180 degrees out of phase with each other - bipoles are wired in-phase. Your Dipole configuration creates a null field at your ears when the speakers are placed to the sides of the room. The reflections from the front and opposite reflections from the back create a diffuse soundfield. This is great - when the speakers are on the sides. Dipoles in the rear would defeat the purpose of Dipoles (placing the null at the back of your head instead of the sides ... at your ears). Rear (back wall) speakers should be bipole in my opinion - they use a 360 degree radiation pattern that will bathe the listener in sound. Bipoles will maintain an open soundfield while allowing for the right amount of directivity. Just my two cents

[Opips2]

Originally Posted by STARSCREAM

BigDaddy, I just got the Polk FXiA4's for side and back surrounds. I have the sides set on dipole and the backs set on bipole. My question is on the backs set on bipole should I flip them in the way they are labeled? Meaning the speaker labeled left should I put it where the left back surround speaker goes or where the right back surround speaker goes? I saw the posts that said you need to switch them when set on dipole so they don't cancel each other out but it didn't say for bipole.

no problem. i draw for you.

[DonRSD]

Originally Posted by STARSCREAM

BigDaddy, I just got the Polk FXiA4's for side and back surrounds. I have the sides set on dipole and the backs set on bipole. My question is on the backs set on bipole should I flip them in the way they are labeled? Meaning the speaker labeled left should I put it where the left back surround speaker goes or where the right back surround speaker goes? I saw the posts that said you need to switch them when set on dipole so they don't cancel each other out but it didn't say for bipole.

the FXI series has
a side = woofer & tweeter
b side = only tweeter

when set to BIPOLE (speakers behind us) the woofers/tweeters (a side) face OUTWARDS thus ONLY THE SIDE WITH TWEETERS (b side) FACES TOWARDS THE LISTENING AREA

would flipping the speakers in bipole mode make a difference....have woofer/tweeter face listening area (a side) and only tweeter side face outside (b side)????

[mayo29]

A monopole and a direct radiator are not the same thing. Most dipoles and bipoles ARE direct radiators. And there are monoples that AREN'T direct radiators. Monopolar describes the direction in which a driver is pointing; direct radiating decribes the manner in which a driver is coupled to the air.

A direct radiator is a speaker in which the diaphragm acts directly against the air without an intervening device. Examples of non direct radiating speakers are horns and bandpass boxes. An example of a non direct radiating monopole is a Klipschorn. Or an Altec VOT.

Some speakers are a mixture of horn loaded and direct radiating such as an Altec Model 19 which uses a direct radiating woofer and horn loaded treble. Another example would be a full range driver like a Lowther loaded to a back horn; frequencies above about 200hz are radiated directly from the cone while frequencies below 200hz come mainly from the horn.

The only non direct radiating dipolar syatem I've seen is a DIY EV horn system a friend built which has horns pointing front and rear and wired out of polarity from each other.

[Hygienist]

I'm trying to put together a budget 7.1 HT system for a 10.5' x 13.5' room, based on the Jamo C400 series. The two seater sofa is in the middle of the room, but it occupies much of the 10.5' width since it has a center console, meaning that I'll be somewhat, but not too close, to the sides, and that a large sweet spot will probably be best. 5.1 isn't possible due to obstructions preventing me from placing a side surround anywhere other than directly to the sides of the sofa.

For the 4 surrounds, I'm wondering whether to go with the
C401 Bookshelves
http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it..._c=site_search

C400SUR dipoles
http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it..._c=site_search

(The lack of tweeters on the C400SUR dipoles concerns me; something to disqualify them over?)

They're the same price, so getting the cheaper option is out. This will be only for movies and games; no music. I've read a ton on people who prefer dipoles for movies, including an "Ask Audyssey" thing where Chris K. recommended dipoles for straight movie watching. I'll also be calibrating it with Audyssey 2EQ or Multeq, if that makes a difference.

So far I'm leaning towards dipoles, but anyone with experience with dipoles is welcome to chime in with their experience.

I've also got one major concern:
How 'bad' are dipoles at precise positional audio? Will a sound coming from my 7 'oclock sound like it's one massive blobby sound behind me, or will it just be less general, as in sounding like it ranges from 6-8 'oclock?

[Big Daddy]

The lack of tweeters should not concern you. Those drivers are full-range drivers. I realize that at such a low price, those full-range drivers are probably not the highest quality. However, the higher-end speakers with full-range drivers can outplay multi-driver speakers for musical applications. I built a couple of DIY speakers with full-range drivers. Their sound quality is excellent.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/2840674-post116.html

If your budget is tight, those Jamo speakers are ok and can do the job for surround applications. Better quality bipole/dipole surround speakers can cost you $500 or more.

Originally Posted by Hygienist

I'm trying to put together a budget 7.1 HT system for a 10.5' x 13.5' room, based on the Jamo C400 series. The two seater sofa is in the middle of the room, but it occupies much of the 10.5' width since it has a center console, meaning that I'll be somewhat, but not too close, to the sides, and that a large sweet spot will probably be best. 5.1 isn't possible due to obstructions preventing me from placing a side surround anywhere other than directly to the sides of the sofa.

For the 4 surrounds, I'm wondering whether to go with the
C401 Bookshelves
http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it..._c=site_search

C400SUR dipoles
http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it..._c=site_search

(The lack of tweeters on the C400SUR dipoles concerns me; something to disqualify them over?)

They're the same price, so getting the cheaper option is out. This will be only for movies and games; no music. I've read a ton on people who prefer dipoles for movies, including an "Ask Audyssey" thing where Chris K. recommended dipoles for straight movie watching. I'll also be calibrating it with Audyssey 2EQ or Multeq, if that makes a difference.

So far I'm leaning towards dipoles, but anyone with experience with dipoles is welcome to chime in with their experience.

I've also got one major concern:
How 'bad' are dipoles at precise positional audio? Will a sound coming from my 7 'oclock sound like it's one massive blobby sound behind me, or will it just be less general, as in sounding like it ranges from 6-8 'oclock?

[Hygienist]

Thanks for that.

I'm locked in for dipoles on side surrounds, but what about rear surrounds? Would you recommend monopole or dipole? At the moment I'm leaning toward monopole, since it might give me a bit of that positional accuracy back that I lost with the dipoles. I'm about 6' from the rear wall, by the way. Plus I could probably hang a painting in between the monopoles more easily than dipoles in the rear, to hide any unsightly cables

[sazabi]

Nice and very helpful thread indeed thanx B.daddy.
But my question is about the Axiom QS8 Quadra pole speakers under which category can we put them?
And are they that good I am thinking of getting them do u recommend them?
And do I need one pair for the surround and keep my direct speakers as rear or should I go for two pairs of the Axiom QS8 for the surround and the rear surround in a 7.1 set up?