The Criterion Collection

[shadedpain4]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

It's nevertheless there. If you analyze screenshots with a hex color selector app you will see some shades of green and blue are indeed there. Kurosawa wouldn't do this. Blacks are meant to be black, and whites white unless influenced by their surroundings. That is Kurosawa's style, not the overly yellowish/green for no apparent reason we're seeing in the new restoration.

Well, there's my problem. I made the mistake of watching the movie instead of analyzing the screenshots with a hex color selector app.

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by shadedpain4

Well, there's my problem. I made the mistake of watching the movie instead of analyzing the screenshots with a hex color selector app.

You seemed to have missed the point of my post entirely, whether intentional or not. But that's great, it's how I watch films too.

[Nuck Horris]

Finally got around to watching Shogun Assassin 1-5. The first two were alright but it became a chore afterwards. Are the subtitles as terrible as the dubbed audio? I can see how Shogun Assassin is somewhat of a classic but none of the other films even followed the same formula as far as the dubbing is concerned. I think the rest probably could've been edited into 2 different films if they kept the same voice actors and Robert Houston was in control.

I can't imagine the Lone Wolf and Cub DVDs being much better if AnimEigo modernized the subtitles. Also can't say that I'm all that excited about a Criterion update because I think I'd have a hard time sitting through these again. Death by dubbing... it may have ruined them all for me.

Any Japanese natives see the original non-subtitled films? How do the US versions compare?

[Oscar Rothman]

Originally Posted by shadedpain4

Well, there's my problem. I made the mistake of watching the movie instead of analyzing the screenshots with a hex color selector app.

[shadedpain4]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

You seemed to have missed the point of my post entirely, whether intentional or not. But that's great, it's how I watch films too.

My comment was less about your post specifically, and more about how I can't imagine ever examining a screenshot (or speculating on Kurosawa's intentions for that matter).

At the end of the day I just hope people are able to enjoy this new restoration. I probably am also a little tired of hearing the same complaints about it over and over again.

Nothing against you MifuneFan. I always enjoy your posts.

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by shadedpain4

My comment was less about your post specifically, and more about how I can't imagine ever examining a screenshot (or speculating on Kurosawa's intentions for that matter).

At the end of the day I just hope people are able to enjoy this new restoration. I probably am also a little tired of hearing the same complaints about it over and over again.

Nothing against you MifuneFan. I always enjoy your posts.

Fair enough. I said something along that same line of reasoning a few days ago in the UK thread

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

There's no one who can prove either way, it's hearsay on both sides. My knowledge of the director leads me to believe it's off, perhaps not 100%, but still off. It's also telling that this is in line with many other restorations that are having a similar look. But hey, I can't prove that. At the end of the day, it is what it is, I don't think it should stop anyone from picking up this masterpiece

[WonderWeasel]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

It's nevertheless there. If you analyze screenshots with a hex color selector app you will see some shades of green and blue are indeed there. Kurosawa wouldn't do this. Blacks are meant to be black, and whites white unless influenced by their surroundings. That is Kurosawa's style, not the overly yellowish/green for no apparent reason we're seeing in the new restoration.

I posted this in the UK thread. It's the original vs my tweak of it. Look how much more balanced it looks in comparison. Honestly if you're familiar with Kurosawa at all you have to realize the top screen is far from accurate

[Show spoiler]

Did you just use the white point selection in Photoshop to correct it? That looks much better.

[theater dreamer]

/drool

As somebody who has not seen Ran, and doesn't typically obsess over screenshots, I am importing this baby from the UK tonight. The color coding looks fine to my untrained eye. I am going to thoroughly enjoy this!!

[oildude]

2016 Release of the Year will be arriving at my office desk in just 6 more days.....



Come to Papa.

[Scottie]

Is the new 4K UK version of Ran Region Free?

[WonderWeasel]

Originally Posted by iScottie

Is the new 4K UK version of Ran Region Free?

Nope, region B locked.

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by WonderWeasel

[/SPOILER]

Did you just use the white point selection in Photoshop to correct it? That looks much better.

Used a program called Paint.net, and just adjusted brightness/contrast, and a few other settings manually till it looked normal. I mainly did it to see some of the finer details of the restoration, which I felt were being kind of lost a little with the color shift.

[Scottie]

Originally Posted by WonderWeasel

Nope, region B locked.

Nice.

[theater dreamer]

I did some white point corrections in Photoshop.

In order, the original from the StudioCanal 4k restoration, MifuneFan's adjustment, and the original shot adjusted for black and white point in Photoshop CS2.









There wasn't anything resembling pure white in the original shots. The best brightness point I could find in the first shot was 78. The lowest was an 11.

Clearly MifuneFan's adjustment represents a huge improvement to the overall balance. The white point correction in Photoshop improves upon that slightly, most notably in color level. Blues, in particular, are much more vibrant.

I agree with the assertion that the color timing is substantially off. I cannot believe Akira Kurosawa would have been happy with such a muted color palette, and such constricted black levels. Look at what a simple correction does to improve detail level.

[theater dreamer]

A few more white point corrected in Photoshop.
















It's a night and day difference.

[theater dreamer]

Here's StudioCanal's trailer for the 4k restoration.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwP_kXyd-Rw

[theater dreamer]

One more comparison. The same shot, in order, from the 2010 StudioCanal release, the 2016 StudioCanal 4k restoration, and white point correction I did of the remaster in Photoshop.





Is it just me, or does the original look better than the remaster, at least in this comparison? Not only the color, but the level of detail. Look at the mountains. The detail of those mountains are completely muted out in the remaster. It also looks like some of the film grain present in the 2010 release has been lessened in the 4k remaster.

If the color timing is off, if there is less detail, and the remaster is less filmic in its presentation, where is the improvement?

[ravenus]

Originally Posted by theater dreamer

Is it just me, or does the original look better than the remaster, at least in this comparison? Not only the color, but the level of detail. Look at the mountains. The detail of those mountains are completely muted out in the remaster. It also looks like some of the film grain present in the 2010 release has been lessened in the 4k remaster.

The previous release was excessively sharpened which could make it look from a small screenshot like it has greater detail, but that's not true. Also the sharpening could make it look more grainy (but that's just more artefacts which becomes apparent when you actually see the film or at least a full HD screenshot.

[Martin_31]

Well I finished watching Mulholland Drive about an hour ago. I don't know what to make of it.

[theater dreamer]

Originally Posted by ravenus

The previous release was excessively sharpened which could make it look from a small screenshot like it has greater detail, but that's not true. Also the sharpening could make it look more grainy (but that's just more artefacts which becomes apparent when you actually see the film or at least a full HD screenshot.

Like I said earlier, I haven't seen the film before, so I have no basis for comparison. And, I totally understand how a smaller screen cap could be misleading--on a larger screen, that hyper sharpening would be incredibly distracting. But the issue I'm having with this new release, again, at least from the screens, is not only the color timing, but the caps look incredibly soft. It's almost as if they went from one extreme to the other.

Regarding the color timing: I understand that there are differences, regionally. What passes as the norm in the western part of the world would look completely out of place in the east. Then, there can be inherent color characteristics that come from the type of film used (I think I've read that the greenish tint that is prevalent in some of Ozu's color films is due to this). So, I accept that the correct color would look somewhat off to my eyes, having lived my entire life in the United States. The very fact that the warm 2 color setting on my flat screen took some getting used to, but now looks "correct" to me, speaks to this fact. But, when I look solely at the color timing of prior releases of Ran, this extreme color shift is not apparent. Did all those releases get it wrong, and only now, under the direct supervision of Shoji Ueda, is it accurate per Kurosawa's intent?

At some point, I worry if I'm overthinking this. I know that certain issues were pointed out in screen caps of the Mulholland Drive release; when I watched the film, I didn't see any of them.

Do we obsess over this too much, and does it ultimately take away from our enjoyment of the films themselves?